I’ve recently decided to get back into SFIV after dropping it for a while, I was getting really burned out on playing Balrog, I’m back and really want to learn to play Gief. I’m still learning his combos, the main ones seem to be jab x3, st.short, lp greenhand (or ex greenhand) as well as the cr.jab, cr.jab, st.strong, st.short, jab greenhand but that one is a lot harder for me. Been playing him since Sunday and was wondering if I’m sort of on the right tracks, or playing him completely wrong.
My capture setup is a pile of shit so I apologize for the video/sound quality in advance (it’s so bad…), but I’ve included a bunch of matches and will be adding to them so I can review my progress regularly.
Any feedback or advice would be greatly appreciated. I’ve spent a bit of time with the FAQs and stickies and there is some amazing content there, I’m going to try and work some of those things into my game one by one, starting with his cr.jab os sweep. I’m having a lot of trouble with it currently, as well as having trouble timing the greenhand after an SPD to get in on an opponent. Any advice with those?
There probably is a “mathematical” correct way to play Zangief, but its match-up dependent, and depends on your risk according to your opponent’s damage output.
For it to work, the cr.lp has to hit meaty, so you only have at most 9 frames before the far cr.hk comes out - to punish frame 23 of a back dash, which probably covers everyone. Time the first cr.lp, hold DF or DB (depending on which cr.hk you want - hint, look at opponent’s back dash distance), tap hk+lp quickly, as if you were chaining them. If they back dash, your cr.lp won’t cancel, and you get cr.hk. If they block, your cr.hk never comes out, as the rapid fire chained cr.lp has priority - and you get a cr.lp chain.
After SPD, mash D, DF, F, D, DF, F and mash LP or MP - depending if you want to be at SPD range or Atomic Suplex Range.
You mean something like this: cr.lp, cr.lp, st.llk xx LPGH
LPGH is not recommended because its unsafe on hit. It is -5 on hit and -7 frames on block. This means any 3 frame reversal like a shoryuken is a free punish, as well as throws that startup in 3 frames, provided they are near enough - which they usually are after that combo. 5 frame reversals like Sagat’s Tiger Uppercut has to be frame perfect, so there’s always a chance he might miss. Still Sagat’s better off punishing with a throw or combo.
Exceptions to the normal:
[LIST]
[]If they are low on health, and the LPGH will kill them, then the combo becomes viable. But your better off using MPGH. Say, cr.lp cr.lp st.lk xx MPGH. MPGH will combo in places where LPGH will combo, but does 10 more damage and 50 more stun.
[]If they are hear stun, and the LPGH in the combo, will stun them, then the combo becomes viable. But again, your better off using MPGH.
[*]You can end the combo with LPGH, and use 2 EX bars to FADC back dash, putting you at -10, a bit further away. Would only be viable, if the opponent is looking to mash reversal shoryuken to punish your LPGH, except they whiff and hit air, and you punish their landing. It’s rarely seen, as its an expensive gamble. The LPGH might give them a false sense of security, like “-5 on hit, I got this sucker… Ah, WTF just happened” This is the key difference between LPGH FADC backdash vs EXGH backdash. Because no Zangief ever does it, you might be able to pull it off once.
[/LIST]
lol. MPGH is even more negative on hit!!! Like -6 on hit, and -7 on block. It’s just that if you want to deliver the kill shot, MPGH is always better than LPGH in zangief’s hit confirm combo.
AND HPGH which is even more negative on hit, about -7 on hit, -9 on block . can’t combo off of any light attack. Only combos from the medium attacks, near MP and near MK.
Well, may I suggest. After you land an EXGH combo, never go for the SPD. Just don’t do it. SPD is the worst option you have. Trust me. OK, to be fair, its the second worst option IF YOU HAVE ULTRA 1. UAB is the worst option possible. LOL. Any other option you have is always better.
OK, time to assess your match. Just going to focus on general Zangief things. Match-up specific tips are too advanced.
Going to look at Zangief VS Guile, as that’s the only match-up I have some idea about
For a start I like Ultra 2, in this match-up, for ONE reason, to counter, Guile’s air throw, after he pressures you with a LP sonic boom. You might be able to use it to counter Sonic Hurricane, by changing your trajectory when Guile makes you land on it - have to test it out. Don’t quote me.
You could land Ultra 1, off of a jump in tick, or fake whiff cross-up HP, or empty jump into it, or off a punish.
Round 1:
Use more cr.lp and cr.lk, especially when you get into footsie range. Avoid cr.mp and far mk in those spots.
Failed to land the correct jump in, while Guile was in lag from his cr.hk.
Failed to Anti-air Guile’s neutral jump, using a late cr.PPP, and usually results in a trade in your favor. At that time, you will ave ONE EX bar, to follow up EXGH. The follow up EXGH ensures you have enough time to land cross-up HP into pressure or combo.
Failed to punish flash kick with Atomic Suplex, then go into a cross-up HP. HP SPD, would also be acceptable. But the option for Atomic Suplex was there.
Those bazooka knees from Guile, was utter suicide. I think you could SPD or AS those all day. Not sure what you were thinking, you had many options, cr.lp being on of them.
I have to criticize the random Ultra there, out of range. Best used on a cross-up jump, on Guile’s wake up. Jumping into extended LP SPD would have worked.
Wrong choice of jump ins, know the difference between mk, hp, d.lk and d.hp, and jumping hk
Round 2:
Poor use of FA forward dash. Because of the short recovery on sonic boom, FA absorb has little value when up close to Guile. Save it for hadoukens and tiger shots.
Failed to anti-air lariat Guile’s jump in.
Missed LP or MPGH after the SPD, essentially losing out on potential damage.
Guile played horribly, he had you in the corner, when it should be the other way around. He didn’t press his sonic boom pressure game to the max. Which ultimately leads me to believe, he was soft playing you.
a few improvements, learn jump or in immediate d.lk in air for instant drop into LP SPD
Use cr.lp, far st.mp, cr.lk and far st.lk when in footsie range. Allows you to counter poke Guile’s pokes. When you get better, option select xx EXGH pokes.
learn anti-air lariat
learn cross-up HP and cross-up d.lk
Avoiding jumping too much, Guile has so many anti-airs, cr.HP, far HP, air throw, flash kick, Guile’s High kick, Sonic Hurricane,
For further away mobility, instead of jumping, use empty forward dash, far HK, or just walk forward and block
add back dash LP SPD, to your footsies, when Guile is pressuring you up close.
Thanks so much for the detailed response, and you’re completely right I have such a long way to go, he’s so different from playing Hugo in 3S.
On a phone so can’t respond very well, but as soon as I get back from work this is all getting copy/pasted into my list of things to improve upon and training mode tasks. Thanks again.
You really need to work on anti airing. People have no reason to stay on the ground if you don’t punish them for jumping. To anti air with PPP lariat, you need to crouch and then Lariat at the last possible second, if you trade, you can juggle into EXGH for 170 damage overall. Imagine playing Rog with cr. HP, that’s what you are playing right now. Also, some things such as spin knuckle, blanka ball, etc you can lariat on reaction which is important.
You should work on buffering EXGH into your pokes. EXGH can be buffered into both jabs and both shorts, all of which are some of Zangief’s best pokes and counter pokes. These are your main ways in on characters who want to keep you at mid range, and they are really good damage. Imagine playing Able without step kick, that is what you are playing right now.
You should work on learning how to punish properly with Zangief. For example, when cammy spiral arrowed and you blocked you did Light SPD (2 or 3 times), you should never do this. Your best options are HP SPD (Most Damage), Atomic Suplex (Lots of Damage + Safejump), EX SPD (A Different Safejump), or a combo into Greenhand (Comparable Damage, Mixup after Greenhand).
You also need to develop some kind of pressure with Zangief, Tanky Turtle Zangief is really strong, but Gief’s vortex is also crazy good against a lot of characters. Learn the safejumps off of Atomic Suplex, EX SPD/Ultra/Super, and both Sweeps.Your tick throws were basic, but it was good that you pressured people with them. Once they start holding upback, you can blow them up with jabs and shorts in block strings and confirm into greenhand. This makes Gief REALLY scary as one grab makes you block a 50/50 that results in another mixup if you guess wrong. You can also use Far St. HK in some situations.
Finally, use far st. mp ALL THE TIME. Hit block whiff that move is flat out insane as fuck. If you are ever in a situation where you don’t know wtf to do from mid range, just medium punch (obviously go back and figure stuff out later).
Thanks for the great advice bitbna1, I played a few casuals with some of the locals today and was practicing my anti-air lariets, is it completely normal for them to trade with things like shoto jumping roundhouse? I couldn’t seem to be able to consistently beat them cleanly.
I’m gonna make a big list of the safejumps and just training mode the heck out of them, because you’re completely right I default to LP SPD and it sucks, and I always fail to capitalize on atomic suplex and EX SPD properly.
Yeah it’s very normal for it to trade. The only time you can beat things clean is when the jumpin has a bad hitbox (Or they jumped from a weird range ofc), or when you hit them after the active frames end.
That’s probably a really good idea, all of Zangief’s options on the opponent’s wakeup are pretty easy to execute and it will definitely make you really scary once you have your offense down. It’s impossible to beat a lot of fireball characters if you don’t have at least some kind of okizeme. I’d also recommend practicing knee press on Shotos to stuff their dps, ideally you want to be able to see some dust on the ground from the startup, but you keep them grounded from the knees (Sakura is the easiest I think for practicing purposes).
Punishing properly in every situation just comes with experience and some testing. I still default to LP SPD in tournament occasionally so I know how it is.
