honestly I really dislike any mechanic that ruins blockstrings, AG, Perfect guard, etc. I love mashing out combos on people’s guard, grinning like an idiot when I know it’s airtight and guaranteed. If I get someone in an airtight blockstring, I should be rewarded for it by letting them blow meter to get out of the problem or suffer some greater penalty (guard crush).
I believe that all defensive mechanics should require a forfeit of some kind, whether it be meter, reduced defense for x amount of time, etc. It’s most satisfying when you can have a situation where you know your opponent is depleted of resources, then you catch them in a blockstring and can think “yes, I’ve got you!” and go for a guard crush.
I understand that in MVC, blockstrings can go on forever due to a lack of guard crush or blocking penalty at all, but I’d rather that AG had some kind of further penalty applied to it, like a small amount of meter, or a 5 second window of decreased defense. There are characters in this game with invincible attacks, 1-frame supers and throws, and Tron/Haggar style assists, and also the rarely used crossover counters (which are a better anti-blockstring mechanic than AG).
I don’t know about that. There are a lot of other ways to get out of pressure in MVC3. I listed a few of them there before. It just comes down to this game not really being designed with blockstrings in mind. Not like something like blazblue where you actually have a true guard crush to aim for. It’s stll better than TVC’s handling of the mechanic (one of the few things I prefer about MVC3 over TVC) but that doesn’t mean I agree that it, as a defensive mechanic, was implimented well. It should cost meter, if even a tiny bit, just on a matter of principle.
yes, but in past vs games it never pushed back quite as far. what’s more scrub friendly: having to advance guard once and shove the opponent all the way to the other side of the screen, or having to advance guard multiple hits in a combo to shove them to the other side of the screen?
Maybe if Advancing Guard was always the thing you wanted to do in any given blocking situation (it isn’t) or it somehow made irrelevant positioning and space control (like parrying), I could see it getting the label “scrubby.”
AG isnt scrubby. not knowing how to combat is whats scrubby and complaining about somethingas easy to counter as ag in a fighting game forum is even more scrubby. lots of posts in here (including some that i posted) show how to deal with AG… it has ALOT of counters. which i will list again just FFS:
1.dash in after being advancing guarded (dashes dont get affected by AG if you time them right… and the timing isnt hard at all)
2.frame trap them
3. use a helper to negate them.
4.use flight cancels to counteract them (much more theory fighter but it IS a plausible counter, if you anticipate it)
5. DONT GET BLOCKED IN THE FIRST PLACE.
6.use moves that dont care as much about AG such as long range pokes that do chip damage.
seriously this game isnt about blockstrings… and if it WERE about blockstrings it isnt about blockstrings without a helper. if you want to cover your ass from having to reactively deal with AG, just use a helper blockstring. thinking in terms of blockstrings is BAD. you dont want to get blocked, you want to hit. so you need to set up a high/low or a left/right EVERYTIME you get in, preferably on your first get in attempt, not after your first get in attempt. people have learned how important it is to use hitconfirms… but they havent put 2 and 2 together that using nothing but obvious hitconfirms from the front IS NOT the way to do things… then you’ll just be confirming more blocks than hits (which means that you will be AG’d into oblivion)… which i assume you dont want.
the answer is dont get blocked, do use smart offense.
AG is only annoying when your using a very predictable offense… so, like all things, try to not be so damned predictable. easier said than done sometimes, but fighting games arent supposed to be easy. if it were weaker thwere would be blockstrings that would be near infinite and who ever got the first block in would own from that point on unless making an executional mistake. and thats stupid.
and what if you want to use a team centered around chip damage in blockstrings? You can’t, because the game has be artificially biassed towards mix-up style of attack as opposed to the chip damage/direct blockstring approach you see in other games. AG is a big contributor to this fact. Most any chip related strategies in MvC3 come down to projectiles it seems, but it’s just not as satisfying as locking someone down with a real, proper blockstring.
If AG wasn’t in the game it would just be a matter of who gets the other person in the corner and then traps them there forever and ever.
“Oh god I was doing this thing and he push-blocked it! How scrubby since I’m better!”
It’s not like Marvel doesn’t give you the tools to win. If you’re complaining that AG ruins things for you, you need to get over your self and learn how to play the game.
chip damage in blockstrings??? that kinda stuff went out a LOOONG time ago… that was only really seen in oldschool pattern/trap based play and to a lesser extent in mvc2… however it was to a lesser extent in mvc2. capcom is VERY wary of that sort of thing. they want there games to be based on mixups not lockdowns… its basically turn based and has been for a long time with most newer school fighting games… ie you block my move and im at a frame disadvantage>your turn etc etc.
micup based play has been where the games have been going, look at the pattern characters in mvc3 and the mixup characters in sf4… it becomes REALLY easy to see. people would rather deal with mixup than lockdowns like strider doom, spiral whoever… people dont generally like lockdowns cause they are repeatable patterns that are very hard to get out of and are generally looked down upon as being scrubby… not strider doom and spiral… but other characters that have abilities similar but requiring less execution.
if you want chip based lockdown you need to play the oldschool games… i LOVE traps and lockdowns… but these games arent about that anymore and i honestly doubt that they ever will be about that again cause of how obvious it is that capcom wants to stay away from that type of gameplay.
(ourobouros being a lvl 3 now is one of the newest examples of how much capcom is afraid of letting that style of play in there games. arthurs shittiness is another example, forward moving moves almost always being unsafe on block OR having huge startup are other indications.
put simply if autoguard werent as good as it is in this game then the offenses in this game would be extremely watered down cause thats capcomm would program it. AG actually ALLOWS capcom to make broken offensive characters which is why ag is as good in this game as it is… its to balance out the rushdown heavy nature of the game.
I have to admit i like the New Advancing Guard in MVC3 over 2 simply because i was always annoyed by assholes who pick sentinel and just spammed Mouth laser into rocket punch while calling Blackheart assist making it nearly impossible to jump out of.Or cable spiral sentinel thats another team that locks you Down A LOT
This game is about block strings but only when you train the opponent not to advance guard basically.
What I think some people don’t know about the game is that if you try to advance guard something and you’re not actually in block stun you’re forced to stick out a medium or heavy normal. Good players of this actually block and let you do real block strings on them but shitty players are just going to mash on advance guard as soon as you try anything. Those types of players you just have to call an assist on and then mix them up or hit them with something that has low block stun like a c.L and then counter hit their advance guard mash afterwards when they think they’re in block stun.
The other thing I think people may not know is that when you jump there are about 3 or 4 frames where you are grounded and can’t block. Meaning if you try to hold up to jump away after rolling up from the ground or while in a block string, you will get clean hit into a full combo as if you weren’t blocking at all (even if you hold up back on the stick).
In general when you’re forcing someone to block in this game if they’re not smart with their defense they’re usually going to do 2 things. Mash on advance guard as soon as you force them to block one move or start holding up to chicken block as soon as your block string ends. Most characters can combat this though by staggering your L attacks so that they come out at a speed that doesn’t actually combo. If it doesn’t combo it doesn’t create a block string but just like in SFIV you can use that gap to blow up people trying to hold up or mash on advance guard when they’re not actually in block stun. Once the opponent realizes that mashing on advance guard on the first thing they block or holding up in every scenario gets them blown up into full ground combos that usually starts getting people to block and lets you use more advanced strings.
X-23 especially can take really strong advantage of that technique because she can create infinite block strings and create whiffs or fake strings in them at any movement that can force you to advance guard at a moment when you’re not actually in block stun. Giving her free room to blow up you with a normal because you’re afraid of how her normals give her plus 6 to 12 on block when feint cancelled. Which gives you more room to set up assist based left rights with M mirage feint or command grabs.
Using ground throws is also one of your biggest deterrents to advance guard mashing because throws activate complete faster than any normal in the game. Which they have to stick out a normal if they aren’t in block stun any way. X-23 gets free left/right mix ups and frame traps that you can’t jump out of after a ground throw. Even characters like Dante it’s not a bad idea to use ground throws once in a while because his ground throw sets up a free teleport mix up.