But I do wish that the arcade version of SSF4 that comes out brings back ST speed. But if it doesn’t I’ll still play it. But I do understand how speed compromises defense. You slower paced guys need to play ST more. It’s fun to read things at such a warped speed. It’s like you’re on speed when you play lol. But Alpha 2 turtling is cool too. I like the backgrounds better in Alpha 2 then in Alpha 3.
I don’t think there is no middle ground to this debate. I don’t see how turtles and rushdowns can agree to the same fighting game.
I guess all you can do is just play the game that’s in front of you.
So who likes Champion Edition better then Hyper Fighting? Sorry don’t mean to derail this thread.
But when Capcom does try to please everyone with games like Street Fighter Anniversary, Alpha Anthology, or Vampire Chronicles then we get unbalanced unplayable games. IMO these games gotta be kosher to be fun.
So, I’m obviously in the Vampire Savior camp and I don’t honestly understand the whole “this game has more of a defensive option to it so that = better game”. There is plenty of zoning and defensive options in Savior, but people don’t see them if it doesn’t involve “fireball, uppercut.” Savior has a more of an active zoning approach. Much like the Arcsys games, which it predates by a few years.
What I see in this thread is a bunch of speculation and bias from the VH side. I’ve played Hunter and I can play it almost exactly like Savior with Rikuo and I’ll still be just as dominate. Sounds like the “flaws” within the game lie within the players who obviously don’t play the game, rather than the game itself.
Way to miss the point entirely, buddy. A+ work. :tup:
I don’t see how people equate NW to SF at all. Besides having a round system, how does it play like a SF game? You can’t airdash in any SF game aside from 3S. Those who think NW is like SF will get destroyed by people who actually play the game like a Vampire game.
I’m not saying Hunter is exactly like SF, but it plays more like it than does Savior. Hunter still maintains elements from the SF series, whereas I see Savior as a complete departure. It’s an observation based on my experience, limited as it might be because of the fact that it’s hard to find people who even play the damn game.
Darkstalkers used SFII’s system and added a few things. VH was an upgraded version that added more things, but its basis was still the same, whereas Savior seems like a complete departure from that engine.
I guess when I say it plays like SF, I mean compared to Savior. When people talk about the lack of defensive elements in Savior, they really mean that the game moves so fast, they don’t have time to think about it. Or at least that’s how I translate it. Your defensive options are a bit more limited in Savior than they are in Guilty Gear, yet the pace is still extremely fast and can be daunting for someone not used to a game that plays like that. Hunter’s pace allows a little more time to process your next move which some might mistake for “more defensive options.”
o. hey rhytm1c. fuck you too!
the foundation of today’s VS information comes from our time on kaillera. god help it a bunch of kids playing video games refine/organize things themselves any sooner.
All they really did was eliminate the SFII round system and speed the game up, oh and add pushblock. Even VS’s pushblock isn’t the same as it is in Versus series games, so it’s hard to really compare it to a Versus series game.
So, when they made hyper fighting and ST, the speed of the game made people have less time to think about defensive options? The amount of defensive options I can think of in GG are: Block, Alpha counter (dead Angle), and fortress block (faultess Defense and Slashback.You also had your standard AA and what not. Vampire Savior has: Alpha Counter, Block, AA, and Pushblock. So, despite the fact that you can’t use meter to keep yourself from being pushed back…what am I missing. In fact, VS has MORE defensive options than VH, which only had AA, Alpha counter and Block. So…it sounds like people need to step up their APM rate and stop thinking that SFII’s system is the gold standard for FGs.
I think that’s because the DS series was sort of a way to “try out” various additions to the engine like pushblock and airblocking to see if they’d work in an SF or Vs. game. In a way, Darkstalkers is like the very FIRST Vs. game.
Hyper Fighting was still essentially the same game, but with some additions to the characters rather than the engine itself and more speed. The mobility of the characters in VS makes defense a little more challenging too I guess. Despite the games’ speed, none of the characters in HF or ST are as mobile as they are in VS, in which an opponent from across the screen could be standing next to you in the next half second.
In GG there’s also Instant Block, which is like a parry, and Fuzzy Guard which is sort of a glitch, so I don’t know if that counts. It takes some knowhow to successfully block a rushdown attack at the speed at which they come in VS and GG, and being about to use Alpha Counters/Dead Angle Attacks requires timing, thus maybe people forget to use them because they don’t have confidence in their ability to pull them off. I’m sure if VS had some version of Faultless Defense, you wouldn’t hear that argument much though. :\
I agree with this 110%. For all the love Marvel gets, it’s sad how much convincing it takes to get people to play games like Guilty Gear and Vampire.
Well they did add things to the characters from Vampire to Vampire Savior. Rikuo is the biggest example I can think of. He went from a quarter circle character to a charge character. All characters got additions and tweaks between games. Shoot, VS even added and took out characters.
But the difference in years between SFII and VS makes it laughable to have people compare the two.
Fuzzy guard does exist in VS. Lei Lei, Rikuo, and BBHood can all execute it. But using speed of rush down as your means of saying “I can’t defend” is retarded. FD wouldn’t fit in VS because of what it does essentially. Pushblock works just fine for that game. Games like Marvel, VS, and ArcSys games really teach you HOW to block, due to the sheer amount of things that are happening on screen.
I can answer that easily. Marvel has easy to recognize characters, a flashy fighting system and a not as steep learning curve for your mid-level player.
Confused by debate. It’s like you both are trying state hyperbolic facts. Korey says NW is nothing like SF and DoctahMario says it’s SFII with some extra stuff tacked on. Both (of my exaggerated, paraphrased) claims feel off mark.
Plus, when discussing a game engine don’t forget to consider every aspect. Offensive options, Defensive options, hitbox placement, move frames/function, move inputs, physics, game speed/fps, the engine (ahem).
If anything I would say the physics, game speed, hit detection in NW feel stricter and help create a more ground based game. Much like… SFII.
Unfortunately NW has no popularity. I have played a Phobos who relied on aerial game and I have personally tried to recreate some of the stuff I see in youtube videos with Pyron. I tried to play as Zabel and he feels like poop in NW compared to his lightning quick blitz in VS.
VS just seems to be MORE defined by characters that own the air:
-Sas’s overhead, double hit dash mix-up, godly AA normals
-Morrigan gaining a third dash option
-Qbee… broken dashing
-Lord Raptor’s speed boost and extensive list of normals
-BBHoods unblockable, double jump, instant j. mp
-Gallon’s dash (should count for something), broken ass beast cannon
-Felicia’s dash lk,mp,mk,hk,hp and speed increase create a whole new monster
-Jedah is almost defined by his aerial options
-Lillth’s superjump into HK crossup, TK Soul Flash
Plus the inputs for air moves are soo much better in VS. Pretty much genre defining shit. It’s like VS is the true godfather of modern fighting games. SFII was an appetizer.
The only reason I mentioned defensive options is because it was brought up previously. I’m well aware it takes all parts to make a game. Even then, there were so many solid Air options in NW too that make it stand out even from SFII. Rikuo, Phobos, Pyron, Zabel, Anakaris, and even Lei Lei.
Some people just have naturally faster reactions than others. It’s not surprising that they’d prefer faster-paced games.
I think both VH and VS are equally fine games, but that’s probably only because I don’t play them seriously enough to the point where I notice their flaws.
