Up until christmas I only ever played on AE, and on the pc (Therefore no 2012, but anyway) I’m an Akuma player on PC, B rank around 1000PP and around 4800BP, i know thats not much but i thought i’d at least be able to transfer a few of the things i’ve learnt over to blazblue but currently i just find it frustrating! I can go through arcade mode alright, Unlimited Hazama isnt a problem for me. I’m playing Ragna at the moment, i had a few brief plays of cs1 and when his D allowed for a launcher into a larger combo he seemed easier, but thats not the point. I can do a few of his BnBs, but i just struggle so much online.
Does anyone have any tips for me to adapt? I just seem to struggle getting in, obviously on BB their are no projectiles (Not many at least) but it seems whatever approach i take (Air dash C, trying to combo of A if im close up) I just seem to have whichever attack i choose beaten out.
Appologies if this seems like a ‘halp, i dunno how this game werkz’ post, but I’m just looking for some tips! Preferably Ragna orientated. I’ve noticed that you have to be a lot more active in blocking and poking on BB, but i just feel like there’s something im missing.
It’s definitely more poking/footsies oriented. You can try to work defensively only Instant Blocks, IBs have less blockstun than normal blocks so you’ll be able to punish sooner. Also try not to rely on barrier blocking unless you’re blocking a special that does chip damage, it adds more blockstun and doesn’t have any added benefits against normal attacks.
Ragna’s main poke is 5B, you’re not really going to be able to just run in and start jab strings on people. Learn what the max spacing for 5B is, put it out as pokes, when you land it go into C > Hell’s Fang > follow up to knock them down, then you can actually get in and start on your real combos from there. You might get tempted to use random Hell’s Fangs to get in on people, don’t do it.
I’ve noticed that and that seems to be why have to learn a lot more, My footsies aren’t too strong on SF4 but still, i manage alright. I’ll have to learn to instant block better as i’ve noticed people seem to use that to make punishing easier. To be honest i havent ever really barrier blocked though i know how do to it, ill have to keep that in mind for random Distortion Drives.
Yeah i think thats my problem, i’m going in too aggressively which you cant really do due to the footsie nature of the game, ill have to work on learning the range and combos from 5b, and i suppose i should walk before i can run so to speak on combos, with quick recovery and such on the game especially. I’ve unforunately fallen into the trap of doing random hell’s fangs on people but i know its silly. I tend to do it more when in BK purely because of the possibility of going into a combo, I think BK’d hell’s fang is a little safer on block though.
Thanks for the tips! I’ve really got to polish up on my poking and guarding, and try not to get focused on those big, flashy combos!
Yeah, while the offensive system does focus on long, drawn out combos, I think a lot of times the emphasis that BB puts on defense is overlooked. Even the ‘fast’ characters have a tons of moves that are negative on block, if you keep yourself from getting mixed up on a punish spot will be there, from there it’s just land a poke > autopilot combo to 4k+.
A couple of other points. Airdashing in is perhaps the single most dangerous way to approach in BB - the rewards can be high, but you’re committing to that airdash and therefore severely limiting your options both during and afterwards, since you can’t block during an airdash (while you CAN during normal jumps - this is a key difference from SF4) and you only get one “air option” on Ragna, so if you use it on an airdash, you can’t subsequently use it for a double jump, so your opponent knows exactly where you are going to come down.
If you are having trouble approaching, try doing more basic jumpins. This is contrary to everything they teach you in SF4, but SF4 is a very different game. In BB, you can block most anti-airs by air barrier guarding, and you can either airdash or double jump at any point during your jump to change your trajectory and avoid Anti-air attacks. If your opponents start anti-airing your basic jump ins, either jump in barrier-block, or try Forward Jump > late Neutral jump. i.e. jump forward, let the stick go back to neutral, then tap up late in the jump, with the objective being to jump up before you are in range of your opponent’s anti-air, but after they’ve committed to inputting it. This should cause your opponent’s anti-air to whiff, and you can then do a falling j.C and hit them to start a combo. You can also cross up with a carefully spaced forward jump > forward jump if you attack with Ragna’s j.B. The main things you’re going to need to watch out for doing this are people either backdashing your jumpins, using a PROPERLY timed anti-air or jumping up to air throw you if you get predictable. (You can tech it, but, er, teching air throws isn’t super easy.).
Another way you can approach is either a properly spaced dashing 5B, or a dash-brake (Dash in cancel to barrier guard. If you just dash in and hold back, your character skids to a stop and is vulnerable, but if you dash in and barrier guard, you go into the barrier guard immediately.). At 5B range, Ragna has lots of good blockstring options, including 5B > 2B, 5B > 2C > 6B, 5B > 5C > 2D, or 5B > 5C > Gauntlet Hades or Dead Spike.
As additional resources, I suggest you read the System Guide over at Dustloop - it’s a lot of info, but it’ll teach you a lot of things about how the game works, including the fact that Callisto is wrong about Barrier Guarding “doesn’t have any benefits against normal attacks” - in additional to being crucial for air guardign, barrier guard increases the pushback from all attacks, so can force an attack back to a range where further attacks will whiff. This is a valuable item in your arsenal. For ADDITIONAL learnings, I strongly, strongly recommend watching Beginner Mode either on Youtube or TwitchTV- while the first episode or two may be stupid basic stuff, it rapidly gets into just the sorts of things you need to understand as someone who is new to BlazBlue. Strongly recommended.
Yeah i’ve been trying to utilise the airdashing a little more, you can use gauntlet hades it seems to put off the general landing area of your dash however as you say, an opponent can still roughly know where you’re going to land, I need to learn the distance of the air dash, it seems very effective however sometimes i just end up going shooting past some one.
The blocking system is again something i have to acclimatise too, ive began to use barrier blocking a little more, however at the moment i feel like im being too passive in blocking and countering (Mainly because i dont have enough of a feel for the game yet to know when blockstrings are going to finish approximately, thus ending up blocking too much and then that nasty guard crush.) Thanks for the suggestions on getting in though with various jump ins, i think learning the proper spacing of airdashing and getting used to basic jump ins, jump ins with barrier block and the double jump sounds like a good thing to work on! I’ve noticed throws in general are a bit more awkward to tech in BB, but i think ill figure it out!
Ill really have to bare that in mind! i keep dashing into stuff so that’s ANOTHER thing to learn, proper distancing of dashing 5bs and dash braking. Im starting to get a feel for blockstrings, i’ve really gotta start using dead spike to end blockstrings instead of hell’s fang! Ill have to practice some of those blockstrings so that they’re engrained into my memory rather than deciding “Ooh, blockstring… i know… HELLS FANG” all the time.
Thanks for the tips! I’ve had a little look over at dustloop, but i suppose i was looking at the more ‘advanced’ stuff rather than the basics, Understanding the system of the game is quite a good place to start! Thanks for all you’ve suggested! You’ve given me a lot to look at and learn! I suppose i should have thought about these things before diving in to online all gung ho. Stupidly i thought. “Its a fighter, i could just transfer what i know from SF into BB” but obviously its a VERY different game!
Ill be sure to check out the system guide at dustloop, the vids on Beginner Mode! Also Happy New Years!
Edit:
Read through the System Guide on Dustloop, very helpful! Cleared up some questions on grab teching, as well as recovery options and such, Thanks for that! I’ll be sure to look at those vids soon too!
Blockstrings are VERY different in BB than they are in SF, and learning how to get out of them is really one of the things that will only come with time and experience - it’s one of the things the defines the better players. Some characters in BB are capable of making it seem like their pressure never ends and knowing when to backdash/poke/DP/Jump out is key. In the meantime, if you have 50 heat, you can perform a “Counter Assault” by pressing Towards + AB while you are in blockstun. Ragna will break out of the blockstun and do his 5B animation, which will kick the opponent away. Counter assaults are invulnerable during their startup, but if your opponent blocks or avoids them, it can get ugly for you. Also, don’t rely on this TOO much or you’ll A) Never have any heat for offense and B) never learn how to get out of pressure otherwise. Also, CAs are being nerfed a bit in Extend.
There is sortof an equivalent of SF4’s “crouch teching” for throws in BB, in that you push downback+ABC; If your opponent tries to throw you when you do this (Up to 13 frames before you hit and up to like…7 after, I think), you’ll tech the throw, and he doesn’t try to throw you, you’ll do barrier guard instead. The downside of this is that for about 30 frames afterwards, you’ll be in what is called a “Throw Reject Miss” state - which basically means you tried to tech a throw when you weren’t being thrown, and during that time, you can’t break throws at all, so if your opponent does a tick throw, say, and you do the downback+ABC option select, you’ll block his jab, but you’ll be prevented from teching the subsequent throw. Use with caution.
Yeah, you should never really end a block string with Hell’s Fang, though if you don’t do the followup, you’re “safe” as long as you block afterwards, but that’s not really a situation you want to voluntarily put yourself in. That said, it’s also not safe to use Dead Spike predictably, because it comes out slow enough that if your opponent predicts it, they can hit you out of the startup. Ragna has a few options for blockstring enders, including Dead Spike, 2C (which is plus on block, so you may be able to dash in or do a 5B afterwards), 6A > Jump Cancel, 6C > Dash Cancel, 2D (Technically this leaves you at -4, but the spacing is such that it’s difficult to punish and more or less resets things to neutral, plus it can condition an opponent to block low and open them up for a Gauntlet Hades instead) and of course, Rapid Cancel trickery. Ragna’s offense actually gets much meaner once he has 50 heat to make things like Gauntlet Hades safe, and to follow up 2D if it hits.
Don’t feel bad about rushing into BB - it’s a lot of fun, and the game has significantly better tutorial style options than most. Just don’t worry if you get blown up a lot for a while.
I certainly get that feeling! I was playing for about an hour with the same guy who mained Valk, and his blockstrings just seemed to go on, and on, and on! I read about the Counter Assault thing, it certainly seems handy for escaping but as you says, it has it’s draw backs, ill have to keep that in mind! BB Seems a lot more dynamic than SF in regards to defensive and offensive options.
Ah, i read about that too! I’ll have to try to do that if i know someone’s particularly throw happy., i was breaking some throws, but the same guy who i was playing against who mained valk also plays tager, and i got a LOT of ‘Throw Reject Misses’, but at least now I know what they are and not to be so grab-tech-mashy! Obviously in SF after a while you can more or less tell when a tick or otherwise grab is coming, but as this is a new game, its hard to discern!
The only reason i used to do hells fang is because the CPU seems to have a strange ‘system’ where if you end a blockstring with hells fang, but delay the follow up, it seems to get hit, of course against a player, they’d just use that gap and punish it; Stupid huh? Ill have to stop that bad habbit. Ill have to keep dead spike’s punishable nature in mind. I’ve done a few jump cancel blockstring enders actually, might have to practice them a little more, but i thought 6a was really negative on block? Presumably you’re risking it even if you do a jump cancel, even though the JC will get rid of the 6a’s recovery. Speaking of Rapid Cancel i’ve gotta get used to using that… it seems to open up a lot of offense and a lot of ways into larger combos off a hit confirm, ie. landing a 2D, RC, 5C, 5D etc. as you’ve said. I dont quite have the muscle memory for RCs yet, FADCs took me a little while to get but they kinda flow better compared to a RC, probably just muscle memory though.
I found that the combos escalated VERY quickly in the trials, i think i got up to the one that starts Backwards throw, 5D, Dash, 5C, JC, j.c, j.d, JC, j.c, j.d, ID “D”, upper, axe kick; Purely because that little dash after the throw to land the 5D seems a little awkward at the moment, seems a different timing to a 6C, dash, 5D…etc… followup. I know that losing’s part of the whole learning process, wouldn’t be fun if it was so easy eh? ^^
Also, I’m starting to wonder if when i try to say do… 2C > 6C, why i get a 5C in the middle, from that dustloop guide I assume it’d be something to do with the 5 frame ‘advanced input’ system? not that it matters too much as in a situation where 2c > 6c combos, 2c > 5c> 6c will too.
Save Meter for Rapid Cancels, Ragna can ramp up the pressure and fish counter hits all day with 50 heat (Complete Hells Fang RC into 5B / 2C for Fatal)
Don’t forget about 2D, 6C and 6B, Essential Mixup tools, You’ll be surprised at how often 2D catches people out (Follow up with 5C on CH)
Punish delayed tech with 22C, It does retarded damage, and goes even further if you RC it in certain situations for a complete reset.
After the typical Corner combo (5B > 6A > j.C > j.D > j.C > 214C > 5D(1) > 214D > 5D > D.Divider - Use the 214D Followup to begin with, The crossunder 3C is stupid to do online…)
And finally. Spam the shit out of 5B, It’s godlike. You’ll get hate but who cares? Thing is biblical.
And on a personal note, If you haven’t tried any other characters, You should give them a bash, Ragna is like the Ryu of Blazblue, His gimmicks are well known and you can’t really get away with anything against a good play. He’s somewhat predictable.
Well, I can’t really go back to playing Street Fighter now, because BB feels so much more dynamic and exciting, so you’re probably on to something there.
As you say, eventually you start to get a feel for when throws are coming, and reacting with that is the best way to go. Also note that you can’t actually escape Tager’s command grabs (Same as with Zangief and the like)… UNLESS he does the throw while you’re in hit/blockstun (or just after you come out of it.), in which case the throw will be purple (Big purple exclamation points) and you’ll have more time to tech on reaction.
Jump cancelling 6A makes it safe, because you cancel basically all the recovery, so you are jumping by the time your opponent comes out of blockstun. Like almost all of Ragna’s blockstring enders though, it’s not safe to be predictable with this because people can punish your jump.
Rapid Cancel should, in theory, be easier than FADC, since it’s just three buttons, vs two buttons and then a dash input. Practice practice.
The combos in the trials do escalate pretty fast, but if you haven’t, you should probably actually go through the “Tutorial” - it’s kindof a wall of text, but it actually goes over a lot of the stuff we covered here like barrier guard and rapid cancels.
Ill have to get into using RC’s as you’ve metioned, as they open up many offensive opportunities.
I do use 2D but i usually end up doing it at the end of blockstrings, 6C i try to catch people with that who are at around the max distance though thats still probably quite punishable, havent really but 6b to good use, but ill have to remember it for when they’re blocking low (Its an overhead as i recall? and leads into 6C on a croucher)
This is something that i havent tried, as i recall 22C doesnt suffer from any damage proration? ill have to keep this in mind! and as you say, RC can make it lead into a nice combo can’t it?
I tend to finish the typical corner combo with ID, Upper, Straight punch, 5D, Hells fang, but i suppose that just removes the pressure of them being in the corner, ill have to bare using the Axe kick instead in mind!
I’ve certainly found that 5B is VERY good, though i tend to just follow it up 5C, Hells fang. Presumably on counter hit with 5B it’d link into a 5C?
I haven’t actually tried any other characters, i was kinda naturally drawn to Ragna, not sure why, but ill have to try out some of the cast, perhaps on the challenges to see if anyone seems more intresting.
Yeah, i didn’t think you’d be able to tech those, i always had problems on SF avoiding those command grabs, the difference is i dont have any Zankuu fireballs or the like to keep the command grabs at bay, hehe.
Ah, that makes sense, i meant rather that someone could anti air you out of the JC, but as you say, if you dont do it every time, people cant always guess correctly.
Fadc’s… especially in the typical akuma case ie. c.HP, Qcf+ HP, FADC, etc. seem easier because you can use the foward of the hadouken motion as the first dash, go to neutral, and then foward and MP+MK, but i see what you mean, it’s just a case of muscle memory.
I think ill have to go through the tutorial too, I’m sure there’s stuff in it that would perhaps sink in better if i saw it practically, in game. Ill have to try some other people’s challenges and test others out as Huggy Bear suggested.
Thanks for all the help! I was somewhat expecting a ‘let me google that for you’ link when i posted this thread, but everyone’s being very helpful! Thanks!
Ps. when you move the stick around, and push buttons, stuff happens!
22C is a funny thing really, If anything you will only do it once or twice a game, But with an RC you can do a fair amount of damage (If it doesnt reset) and get a full corner carry, Or you get amazing damage (3/4K?) IF the opponent is too scared to tech, However, 2B also OTG’s and is a lot safer if you miss it, So be mindful of your opponent and their reversals (IE Tager…)
Also, About new characters, If your’e into heavy rushdown, good mixup ect, I recommend:
Bang - Amazing Mobility with 2 Air dashes, Poison Nail, Exploding Nail, Triple nail and web nail projectiles, Guard Point Drive with Teleport (Basically, If you activate this move and an opponent hits you, You sponge the attack and get a free counterhit), Oki, very strong mixup and has a “Super Mode” Which makes his mixup pretty much unblockable.
Downsides are that he has no reliable reversal, his only option is Ashura and that requires 50 heat, At also has no solid AA and has trouble on the defensive, So you NEED to block shit and use drive effectively
Valkenhayn - Amazing Normals, Insane Mixup, Wolf Form, Taokaka level mobility ect ect. I don’t play him so I dont know much, All I know is that he is a monster in Extend.
By all reports Ragna is pretty fierce in Extend too - while I daresay his basic game hasn’t changed too much, he does a lot more damage than a lot of the rest of the cast. @_@
Haven’t had much of a chance to use 22c, but ill have to bare this in mind!
As for the other suggestions, i had a quick try with them in challenge etc… I don’t know if its just me being stubborn or whatever, But I prefer Ragna. I don’t have the DLC yet so I don’t have access to Valk, ill have to try him when I do get around the getting the DLC though!
Edit:
Did the tutorial as well as the ‘strategy’ section for ragna, was helpful to seem certain things in game! Did a few other character’s challenges just out of curiousity, but i’m still quite fond of learning and playing as Ragna. I spent some time in training testing out various blockstrings, Strings, RC hells fang combos, RC 2D combos etc. Then i upped the difficulty to hard and tried Arcade. On normal i usually just waltz through, And i basically did untill Unlimited Hazama on hard.
Using 5B as a poke on Unlimited Hazama as the cpu seems quite dangerous as he just always seems to counter with that upward kick (Not the Distortion one, appologies for my lack of proper attack names!) Im trying to be more passive against him to avoid getting trashed, but it seems at the moment ive still got a lot of defence to learn, when i get in to combo i seem to do alright, got him in a few combos that took 3k or so life off him. Still trying to kick the habbit of ending combos in hells fang, unless i have heat for an RC of course, but Heat can be utilised better.
I see what you mean about pressure being very strong with blockstrings, 6A jump cancelled goes straight into j.C which is very good, which can then obviously go into a blockstring into another jump cancel high, or a 2D low or a 3C into 22C.
Still got a lot to learn but I think as a goal “I’ll have to defeat Unlimited Hazama to have a chance!”
Thanks for the tips though! I’m starting to realise what to do during blockstrings now (Granted i was playing against the CPU but still) And the RC seems to be becoming more and useful. The fact that the game’s starting to make sense feels good! Even i do get beat, I’m starting to understand why now.
Don’t buy any DLC if you plan to get Extend. Extend has all the DLC characters and content bundled in, though some of the colors and nonsense apparently need to be unlocked. Repeat: Do not buy any BBCS DLC if you plan to buy Extend.
Unlimited Hazama is a cheap bastard - don’t feel too bad that he counters all your pokes; That kick of his is basically a DP, so it’s just the CPU being a bastard and saying “Aha! He pushed a button! I shall DP him out of it!”. There are a few ways to cheap out Unlimited Hazama (Carefully timed meaty attacks on his wakeup seem to work well, because apparently his reversal isn’t frame 1 invulnerable or something) but mostly, you should just avoid pretending that fighting him is anything like fighting a person. Not to say that you’re probably not learning a ton in your blockstring experiments, but just bear in mind that the way the CPU behaves isn’t really how a person does.
Ah, good point! It seems feburary seems to be the month for fighters in 2012.
Yeah, It’s kind of a vicious circle, and it seems to happen in any fighting games on arcade mode (Gosh some of the ‘punishes’ on arcade mode on SF are crazy, i’ve been ultra’d for missing a link in a combo!) Ill have to try and be more passive because as you say, to sum up; the computer cheats! the blockstring experiments are helpful, however when the first hit is just countered most of the time its somewhat frustrating! Ill just have to play some non ranked games on line instead i think, I’m starting to understand the game better which is good though!
AI was built for the sole purpose of saying “FUCK YOU” To any strategic play, The AI can read your mind.
Ragna’s lack of mobility is a huge turnoff for me, I just can’t look past that after picking up Bang. Valk, Bang and Ragna all look incredible (Especially Valk…)
And Rapid Cancels are better than Blood Kain + CS in my opinion, They are just a godsend for Ragna.
