New to Guy, might be posting this in the wrong section

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
1

This question might belong in the Newbie forum so excuse me if I’m posting in the wrong section.

I’m relatively new to fighting games and I very accustomed to playing to playing fireball characters. I’ve played Sagat since last year. All I’ve done is throw fireballs and wait for people to jump in. I got really bored with this so I decided to pick a character without a fireball as I feel I am too reliant on them.

That being said, I’m not sure what to do with Guy. I’ve watched Kiryu and Combofiend videos and I see some poking and footsies, then they start going in and start their hit confirms, run stop, do it again, etc so from what I understand I’m supposed to just be in there a lot which is what I want to be doing anyway. However, whenever I try to do that I just get blown up by a reversal, drop something and get caught in some counter hit setup. I know there are fundamentals I’m missing but I was wondering if anyone could help point me in the right direction?

2

Guy is a tricky character, not only does he have a weird jump angle and speed but his game is pretty much revolving around pressure. you are dropping links i think, shotos can easily mash DP to punish this drop. practice the trials, i spent almost an hour yesterday to perfect the timing for close st.hk to far standing jab to bushin chain

3

Yeah the floaty as all hell jump still kind of catches me off guard sometimes. In terms of getting in, I’ve been trying to fake people out with elbow drops and getting them to commit to a fireball or something. Yeah, I’ve been working on cr.lk cr.lp st.mp xx exHoz or mk BSK. Using the cr.lk cr.lp as a hit confirm. For punishes I’ve been doing st.rh into target combo. Guess I just have to work more on execution then?

4

I should really post the Run > Stop frame advantage (or disadvantage) in the Way of the Sneakers thread:

This explains why you’ll sometimes eat a reversal attack if you perform a Run > Stop on block.

5

Oh wow, thank you. That’s actually very helpful.

6

For the noob, Firstly know. - this is my way, if others have ideas to add or correct me feel free.

1st: Every Button you push all punches & all kicks, (i guess all moves) - until you can recognize them visually.
(when you go back watching vids you watch and understand how they are being used.)

2nd: target combo 1. Get use to the rhythm of executing it. ->Then when you look up top Guy players, you will see how they link into it.
2nd (b) Extra: Learn St.mp to run slide (for untechable ex Bushin Izuna Otoshi) (optional target combo: st.mp + st.hp to slide)

(with me saying this, find out the most damaging combos and (doable for you combos)

3rdly: Understanding the basic Plinking of Tech Throw. Youtube it. -> As Guys opportunities to do damaging target combo 1 (2nd.(a.or.b) will stem from this.

E.g. You Know your opponent will throw out a throw once he gets in, so having the plinking tech throw in place, will allow you to tech the throw, or what you really want, for them to stuff up and catch them with your cr.lk or cr.lp -> into target combo 1.

  1. Watch The Vid on Youtube called Counter hit.
  • Learn what counter hit is in general and with Guy. when done ->
  • learn this sht (close or after a knockdown, ->, start with cr.lk/cr.lp into Cr.HP, st.mp -> ex hozanto, - you will get it once you watch youtube vids.

than once you got cr.hp, st.mp, try other finishes,

rather than always looking for a plink tech throw opportunity as in Point 2a & 2b. You want hard damage.

  1. Do Not do random “Bushin Izuna Otoshi” on a shoto, fake a couple first or even fake elbows, This will be trial and error, please take notes of what strength you used, what the opponent did for you to do it, and why you did it.

  2. Learn Elbow Drop - Until you are comfortable doing on both sides of screen.

  3. If you get dropped, learn from watching vids how other players handle that pressure and not just automatically do ex Bushin Senpyaku (hurricane kick.)

e.g:

how they block,
how they get out of it - back dash,
what Option selects the opponent has in that situation. (by the way learn option selects Guy and everyone else!

  1. Learn Kara Throw.

  2. Do not always punish opponents with specials when you can use a button and the joystick to do so.

e.g. Attempting Izuna dropping someone when they jump in, when you can just cr.mp or slide out situation with cr.hk (when applicable.)

  1. Utilize the Hozanto for the time being as a opportunity to FADC into Ultra one.

  • Understand the centre point of screen of each stage, (using props to find it)

  • use the actually stages as a testing point with dummy player no.2 to measure how to hozanto fadc into ultra 1.
    test st.mp/cr.mp into hozanto (test it lp/mp) and cancel into ultra one. the max distance you can connect it.

My approach to guy is, to keep opponents in the corner, or push them psychology into moving backwards, its an art i havent perfected with Guy. easier said than done. more noobish, noobish-intermediate i can do this on.

So using things like, hozanto, slide punish, fundamental punishing (Point 9.) for me, i feel is to push them into the corner. or luring them into the corner, as guy can jump off the walls.

  1. Also learn corner target combo + throw back into corner mix ups & resets.

This is my opinion for a noob to approach, Ive been using guy since ssf4 came out, it has been hard to adjust to from, shoto, orientated characters and others,

  1. I am weak at frame calculating, -> one day. someone else can tell you.
  • i have stopped playing alot and gone back to note taking, i strongly suggest you keep a book, of all characters weaknesses, what you can beat out in certain situations, whats risky, whats 100%, etc, than look back on frames and compare i guess with the other character.

l3. learn reversals. popular vid on it. it will save your ass every now and then.

  1. ultra 1 until you know guy well. -> maybe 2012, f around with ultra 2.

this is for now, i cbf going back and adding extra little tips for the time being.

7

Thank you so much. That’s really helpful. I don’t have any problem putting in time in training mode, I just would like to be spending that time wisely( you gave me a whole list of things to work on). That was a really good post, like you said, you are coming from the shoto mentality which is kind of where I’m coming from now. I didn’t even know guy had a Kara throw.

8

It’s not the greatest so sometimes you may not even use it, but with his upcoming grab buff it does have its uses and it will be better overall. oh his kara thrrow is done by st mp ~ grab.

9

I want to try to do it anyway. Squeeze out any advantage.

10

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Well at first I disregarded Guy’s kara throw, because I compared it to Ken’s Kara Throw (my old shoto perspective). But its valuable.

Explaining Scenario:

In this clip, you see that Guy is looking for hit confirm with cr.lk/cr.lp (links that go into st.mp + slide or target combo)

  • Now you will be in these situations in the vid, where you throw out cr.lk/lp x2:

-> option 1: st.mp -> into whatever choice (but as a noob, you might be doing hozanto - cos its easier/safer.
-> option 2: st mp -> into bushin izuna otoshi (flip grab) but what if its a shoto thats onto this generic noob guy mentality? uppercut. (dw im guilty of it too)
-> another consequence? what if as a noob you arent tight with cr.lk/lp x 2 into st.mp, & the opponent picks up on this? yes they will punish it. (those shotos)
-> another consequence? what if your cr.lk/ x2 isnt even precise? that you have trouble doing the 2nd one to link into combo? - As an option, You kara throw, to get out of that little stuff up. which gives you a little more time to breathe & re-calculate.

Kara Throws triggers the Guessing game, free damage, opponent feedback

-> even when your cr.lk x2 is correct, they are blocking,

Your Reaction to it? “Oh he is tight with his cr. block I will move back and try something else…”

-Why would you want to do this?

  • certain characters have more of an advantage if you move back and give them space. Meaning Guy’s disadvantaged.
  • your up close, if you throw (in this specific case kara throw) depending where you are on stage, our goal as a guy player is to put them into a corner.
  • you got free damage.
  • you are not profoundly sad your hit confirming leading into combos didnt work.
  • if you throw forward -> it leads to a safe jump option for Guy (i think reverse throw as well…)\

watch the other youtube vids about safe jumps after you forward throw, meaning you get a rhythm going of pressuring them up close again, with a safe jump & as a noob it takes a fair time to adjust to his float jump nature.

  • if you safe jumped and did the same, cr.lk x2, they might try to do something and as soon as they dont block, maybe throw in a counter hit (cr.hp - to catch them off guard.) you go into target combo/high damage combo
  • Safe jump is perfect for the noob to learn as it will be a good pattern of thinking for you, and learning safe jump compared to a random jump in, it protects you from damage, learning more of opponents reactions and becoming wiser!

BUT WAIT theres mORE!!!

  • So you kara throwed, safe jumped when it was suitable, guess what if your safe jumps fail with certain characters?

Option Select. (learn it.)

Now When you execute that Safe jump out (and from logging your details about your wins and losses with other characters) before you land, you can input a move. e.g ex hurricane kick, what happens here is, you do the ex hurricane kick input, before you land & after you have pressed kick for jump kick. (be aware of vids when they push the kick button and where abouts guy is positioned in the training room)

  • what happens is if they attempt to punish you with your jump in attack *(which is safe - learn it) in the moment where you land if they decide to throw a move out, they are automatically punished with the ex hurricane kick! but if they dont do anything the move does not comes out.

cbf explaining option select - look it up and learn it! including your opponents you come across and write there option selects you come across!

using this kara throw might be safer option (after practice & confident execution of course.)

but using kara throw, after cr.lk x2, keeps the opponent guessing, you want to throw them, in these situations, cos you fuel their emotion,

How Ive approached Guy in the beginning till now & the more progression/advancing/utilizing & understanding how to use him as a character ,

From what ive read in these forums, he is a block string sort of character, watching vids confirms this as well, you cant bring the same mentality like a shoto and be arrogant thinking “eat my fireballs & if u dont ill dragon punch ya…and possibly fadc and ultra ya!”

um i gotta leave now, i got fried writing this. cbf with going back. all good guys* i intend to break it up even more.

11

After coming back to Guy and SF after almost 10 years, I give you my thanks for those posts.

12

Thanks guys, there’s a ton of helpful information in this thread.