NEW Street Fighter aka. SF 2.5/3.5: The Parry Debate

Right, so whats ur intention here really? are u trying to get better at the game?

No, obviously you are not. You want the game to become something u are comfortable with, and where is that suppose to get u??

U think nobody knows about all those anti-fireball moves u come up with? dude, give ppl more credit, this game has been out for a long time, all those moves u come up with only works if ur opponents are spamming fireballs.

Did u know that u can reversal Ken’s low forward with Shipuu? or if Dudley parries the first hit of Akuma’s multihit fireball (not super) he can duck through the rest only with forward or short duck but not roundhouse? Seriously learn the game first, play better comp than ur buddies, watch some hi-level match vids and learn not what they do but why they do… till then, stop complaining about parrying cuz u can either go play games that doesnt have it or, learn to cope with it and find out parrying isnt the most powerful tool in 3s.

Well, trying to stay on subject so that it doesn’t turn into a parry is good vs. bad thing, because this from what I’ve been reading is just for fun folks, it’s supposed to be an interesting topic of “what if”, not “what is”…some of you guys just gotta lay off, this is just asking how differently 3S plays without parry, which imo, I see nothing wrong. If this was a topic saying that “Parry will be removed for Evo2k6 for 3S and Future Tournaments”, then yes, by all means, talk it out, but since this is just supposed to be a “what if”, let’s keep it simple.

As for the idea of 3S without parry, that does indeed sound interesting, I haven’t checked if the PS2 version has the options to remove parry, since I never really bothered to really look in the first place, nor did it cross my mind. However, it would be interesting to try this out and see what the outcome would’ve been, and definetly the tiers listing would change, obviously Ken would still be solid, as for Chunli, I wouldn’t really know, I’m not much of a Chunli player at that, but I would feel that she would have more difficult matchup’s now with parry removed. Genei-Jin Yun imo would still be good, because even without parry, Genei-Jin is still Genei-Jin.

Akuma would be a force to be reckon with, because it would be difficult to stop aerial fireballs, divekicks, and his rushdown. Denjin-Ryu would be an absolute monster, any back throw, buffered hadouken, knockdown, cornered will lead to guaranteed damage no matter what you do, and it would make Denjin extremely dangerous not in just corner’s but anywhere on the screen, Ryu would be top imo, if not, he would definetly be ranked alot higher than he is now for sure.

Remy would actually seem pretty good too, though I’m not a Remy player at all, but the benefit of no parry would make him better, and not worse, since he would be able to use his projectiles with more effeciency. On a note for the fireballs in 3S with no parry, although it would become more dominant, it still wouldn’t be that bad overall, at least when compared to SF2 where the fireball was 1. Traveled Faster 2. More Damage potential 3. Faster Recovery, the only exception on this would be Akuma’s aerial fireball because of how it sets him up, but other than that, the way I see it, the fireballs wouldn’t be as bad as everyone claims it to be (comparing it to the fireball game/traps/setups of SF2 of course).

Ex-options would be probably be even more heavily used than before, especially with the shoto’s. Believe it, but chip damage for the win would definetly be another thing that would dominate without the parry. Although it would never get competetion, this would definetly be fun to try out and mess around with turns on PS2 SF2 AE to try it out.

Fireball traps aren’t the most effective tool in ST, but that’s not the point. Why is it everytime someone starts a thread like this, 99% of SRK seems to miss the point entirely? What does being able to reversal Ken’s cr. MK have to do with anything? We are not discussing alternate ways of getting around footsies (or are we?), we are talking about how parry affects a lot of spacial strategy in 3S that simply can’t exist with parry present. But to be fair, it’s also because fireballs are complete and total garbage in 3S compared to what they could be. I mean, you can reversal EX fireballs, too, and those take meter and arent low, cancellable normals. :slight_smile:

Anyway I think someone should close this thread because between, “OMG U CANT PARRY DENJIN WITH NO PARRY LOL AND HUGO WILL SUCK”, “YOU JUST DON’T KNOW HOW TO PARRY, SCRUB”, and “PARRY KEEPS PPL FROM USING CHEAP FIREBALL BLOCK DAMAGE”, this thread is becoming a clusterfuck of misconceptions.

Unable? Not really. Unwilling? Yes lol. The only purpose of discussing this topic is either for fun or out of boredom. There really isn’t much to get out of it, imo. I think most people here rather get better than just talk about something thats irrelevant. I think if it doesen’t have to do with tourney play, most people aren’t intrested.

But I’m done lol. I’m not trying to say this topic shouldn’t be discussed.

The parry in 3S is a tool created to attempt to create a perfect 2D game of yomi. Basic mix-ups are part of the initial strategy of any great yomi games (like VF). With ticking and corner traps in SF2, the game becomes less about outthinking your opponent and more about setting them up for a pattern advantage. This is the most fundamental difference between SF2 and SF3. Now I am not a big 3S fan, I am definitely one of those old-skool SF2 fans. However I do see the beauty and skill that SF3 instills in its players. Having to change timing of attacks to throw off parries is one of the many strategies that simply dont exist in SF2. So this discussion really at the heart isnt about the parry at all, it is really about a discussion of control. SF2 is about the ability to control your opponents actions thru pressure pattern traps and 3S is more about the ability to counter almost all attempts of pattern based control with a parry countermeasure. In SF2, the only real way to stop a zone, corner, tick pattern (all of which are pattern based control mechanisms) is to literally stop the pattern from happening. While this is true for both games, usually in SF2 it requires slightly different strategies for each character to do this properly. In 3S, while corner patterns, ticks, and zones still technically exist, the existence of the parry will allow a player to retain their control of the momentum of the game because you have a measure to counter these pattern based control mechanisms with a single, beautifully thought out move, the parry. The ability to force these situations are greatly reduced by competent players who have accepted and mastered the parry. So in the most basic sense, 3S players dont really like demanding control tactics and prefer to have an answer to almost all pattern base control strategies. This is the reason why SF3 is a more poke type game where SF2 is almost always about zone and anti-zone. They are both indeed great games, but the mindset and fundamentals to enjoy each game is truly different from one another.


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Fantastic post, urkangijordi. I think that sums everything up beautifully, we should end the thread here.

you make it seem like all pressure in 3S can be stopped with a parry… i think with parries in the game you have to do everything (rushdown,zoning, keep away) SUPER TIGHT and not sloppy. you gotta think about the timings of your normals and whether your opponent can be in neutral or the opponent will see an opening and parry (oh, like a real fight). But even then you can bait parries and punish them if you set them up for it.

I don’t see how you can think there is no zoning in 3S and a lack of strategy.
You are obviously biased towards ST. What you should have said is that you like ST style fights more and are more familiar with it. Instead you have just been assaulting 3S saying takes little skill, doesn’t require zoning, traps, etc.

maybe 3S shoulda have parrying like p-groove where the window to do so is much smaller.

it’s small enough already…

Thats the biggest misconception of them all. Seriously.

And the thing about Ken’s low forward being reversible by Shipuu… its just something to show the thread starter that he should really learn more about the game first before anything.

Yang would own everyone with jab mantis XN

hugo vs remy without parry? hugo = dead meat.

uhhhh if you took out parries, you’d have to change every character in the game.

true. urien = god tier. parrying out of unblockables is tough enough, but not even having the option is just rediculous. hell, at least you can jump/reversal out of denjin. with no parries available, a maxed out Urien = 80% of your life off basic unblockables, 100% if you get character specific.

but back on topic, i’m sorta siding with aneurysm on this one. if the topic’s starter’s main sticking point is “fireballs can be parried”, then he should learn more about the game’s engine, and how it effects each character, and then should learn about character specific stuff…

This thread is dumb.

fixed for you

YEAH WE KNOW

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/4783/readthread7zn.gif

THAT, is a good pic.

This thread is dumb. = I rest my case

not only that but what cygnus posted above =>

==>> All of that is AGREED upon.