NEW STICKY! Ultra I Punishes against DPs!

Throughout the course of this game’s life, 720 Ultras have on the whole been understood and functioned in a few different ways.
[LIST]
[]1 frame punish for unsafe grounded attacks or specials.
[
]An interrupter between failed block strings, or against frame traps.
[*]A surprise command grab in 50/50 situations
[/LIST]
In my few years of watching both Zangief and T.hawk players fight it out both online and in tournaments, seldom if ever (I can’t recall at the moment) have I seen players use their 720 in a way as to punish blocked uppercuts!

why?

I think it’s most likely its either because players may not know that it’s possible and/or they may not know how to execute it.
Perhaps even more likely is that they are content in using simpler, safer but weaker options for their punishes.

The purpose of this thread is to explain in detail how to go about punishing reversal uppercuts with Ultra I.

My hope is that it will intrigue those who have never conceptualized their 720 in this way and inspire them to begin trying to do so.

For those of you know already understand the possibility of this technique but may have little or no clear understanding on how you can do it for yourself, I hope this thread helps to flush out any questions you may have.

Before I begin I’d like to address two important points

Learning Curve

[details=Spoiler]

Throughout the character by character listings listed below, you will find very commonly the term: “whiff cr:lk:”

What this means is exactly what some of you fear.
In many cases it will be the case that to punish a certain DP on block you must **quickly **whiff a cr:lk: and during its whiff animation you must input the 720 motion…

Yes… if you are new to it, it can be very challenging however I strongly recommend that you put in the time and effort to master this technique~ it will pay off very highly!!! [/details]

Questions you may have

[details=Spoiler]

The second point is to answer a question many of you may be asking yourself as you go about reading this guide.

Answer: Level 3 Focus attack into Ultra is T.hawk’s Best damage option… Yes it is easy to do and it yields 527 points of damage. If you are in the position to use lvl 3 Focus then you should do so.

T hawk can land lvl 3 focus against only a certain few reversals: Guile’s Flash Kick, Juri’s Ultra II, Viper’s Ultra I… and many other similar ones

The obvious point to make is that lvl 3 focus will not work against the vast majority of reversal uppercuts.

If lvl 3 Focus attack is possible during the match, then it is the best option. But seldom it will ever be

2 Things to note about this option…

Just as the case was with lvl 3 but less severe…
lvl 2 focus will work on a great many reversal uppercuts however there is still a great many uppercuts which still do have enough recovery to make lvl2 focus crumple a punish option.

The second thing to point out is the damage difference.

Against uppercuts where lvl 2 focus attack can work; using lvl 2 focus crumple into ultra one has a maximum damage potential of 477 points as apposed to a raw ultra at 510 points.

Why You Should Not Rely on Focus Crumple
Focus crumple into Ultra very seldom works
Focus crumple into Ultra yields less damage than Ultra alone.

**Why You ought to learn these **
The techniques listed below work against virtually all characters
510 damage

I believe that any T.Hawk player will improve his or her game a great deal by learning and applying these techniques.[/details]

Let’s by laying out the techniques which I’ll be referring to throughout this guide.
I will spell out 3-4 different approaches to landing Ultra I
and through out the guide I will assign it a code and that code will refer to which options work against each individual uppercut…

Here is the key + A video:
Video

Spoiler

[media=youtube]T_NbueXmr00[/media]

Here is a video explaining each technique how to use them and how they look…

Whiff cr:lk: -> Ultra: 1
Whiff an empty standing throw :lk::lp: -> Ultra
Dash forward -> Ultra

What is a slow 720?

Spoiler

Many uppercuts in the game are so so that none of the techniques listed above would work against them. They do not have enough recovery to give T.hawk the time necessary to Dash up or to whiff a throw, they are also low to the ground making it difficult or impossible to whiff a cr:lk: without hitting them and causing an aerial reset.

Some examples of such uppercuts are as follows: :lp: uppercut from Ryu, Ken, Sakura, Yun, Yang and Ibuki

So in cases such as the ones listed above, the technique to use would be a “slow 720”.

So what does this mean exactly?

Against Ryu’s :lp: Dp, using Ultra I as a reversal would be too quick!
[LIST]
[*]Ryu would still be in the air and the ultra would whiff
[/LIST]
(let’s assume counter-clock wise and that you being the motion from a down back position)
instead, as best you can, turn the stick being careful to have it so that the portion of the 720 motion that is :u: is done so during the block stun!
(i.e. do as close to a true 360 motion as possible during the block stun)

Once you you come full circle and return to the down back position, be sure to slide your stick to the the “down forward” position slightly slower than normal and again to the up forward position; maximizing the time the game can hold the 720 input…

If done correctly the Ultra should come out late enough to punish Ryu’s Dp

BE BRAVE
explaining simple things in detail via words often times has the effect of making it sound more difficult than it really is.

Here’s a Video showing a slow 720

[spoiler= Video][media=youtube]XPmN40YDYd0[/media][/details]

IMPORTANT

[details=Spoiler]

Ultra 1 Does Not need To be a True 720
Many of you players already know this
however for the very few of you who never figured this out for yourselves I will spell it out here for you

To do Hawk’s Ultra 1 you only need to input a 540!:rock:
That’s right… it is MUCH easier than you think…
Here is how I go about doing a whiff’d cr :lk: into ultra
** (assume we do this from the Player 1 left side position and we spin the stick counter-clockwise)**
From the beginning I start with down+back :db: + cr :lk:
and then from :db: I do a true 360 going all around and returning to :db:
and then, from :db: I swing the stick to up+forward :uf: and then press all three punches :3p:

As a friend of mine said it: So you can think of it as a :360: plus Chicken Wing!
This is how I personally do 720. It works pretty well for me, it could work for you.[/details]

To begin let me just say something very quickly:

I am god like… this is very true:rofl:
My execution is top notch… this is true
However I am still human…

Some of the information that I present here may not be true

[LIST]
[]What I tell you works! WORKS! there is no mistaking that
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[
]However what I tell you does not work, MAY WORK, execution error on my part.
[/LIST]

And Another Thing.

I understand that for many match-ups some T.Hawk players prefer to use Ultra II…
In fact in some of match ups Ultra I is virtually useless…
be that as it may I include them in this Ultra I analysis just for the sake of being thorough… :tup:

I’ll first start off by going over the characters whom are the EASIEST to apply the techniques against, that is, that ONE out of the 4 techniques works for all version of their uppercut…

or it could be that ALL options work against ALL their reversals in which case
**We can all smile :slight_smile: **

Balrog

Spoiler

Balrog
:badboy::annoy: :arazz: TURN BUTTER!!!:rofl::lovin::clapdos:

Against ALL of his headbutts… :lp::mp::hp::EX:
By the time the block stun is over, Balrog has his feet on the floor!
Turn butter with reckless abandon!!!
:360::360::360::360::360::360::360::360::360::
:lp::mp::hp::lp::mp::hp::lp::mp::hp::lp::mp::hp::lp::mp::hp::lp::mp::hp::lp::mp::hp::lp::mp::hp:
MASH MASH MASH MASH MASH

Cammy

[details=Spoiler]
Cammy
Cammy’s knock back on ALL her cannon spikes leave her at relatively the same distance…
Against EVERY blocked cannon spike T hawk can Dash Forward into Ultra :clapdos:

Against Cammy = :f::f::360::360::3p:[/details]

Vega

[details=Spoiler]
Vega
Vega’s scarlet terrors are bad on block but not bad enough for T hawk to Dash OR whiff a standing throw… He’s also low to the floor making it so that Hawk can’t whiff a cr:lk:

Against ALL of his Scarlet Terrors T hawk must do
SLOW 720s!
:360::360::3p:[/details]

Viper

[details=Spoiler]
Viper
Viper only has 1 uppercut to worry about
:hcb::hp:

The ONLY way to punish this is to **quickly **whiff a cr:lk:
I say quickly because it’s noticeably harder to do than other most uppercuts
Practice Practice Practice!!!:coffee:

cr:lk::360::360::3p:[/details]

Guile

[details=Spoiler]
Guile
:clapdos::encore::rofl::rock:

**ALL! ******

It’s no secret that Guile’s flashkick is one of the unsafest wake up special reversals in the game…

All 4 Techniques work against ALL of Guile’s flashkicks…

[LIST]
[]Dash -> Ultra
[
]Whiff cr :lk:
[]Whiff cr:mk: If you want a little more time to input the ultra
[
]Whiff an empty throw
[/LIST]

Does level 3 focus work? I’ll check this later![/details]

Sagat

[details=Spoiler]
Sagat
YES! :encore:
One of Hawk’s worst matchups!

Sagat is extremely vulnerable with EVERY version of his tiger uppercut

[LIST]
[]Dash -> Ultra
[
]Whiff cr:lk:
[]Whiff cr:mk: If you want a little more time to input the ultra
[
]Whiff an empty throw
[/LIST]
Anything you want, pick your poison!
Level 3 focus crumple DOES NOT WORK!:nono: [/details]

Blanka

[details=Spoiler]
Blanka

I put blanka here not because he’s extremely vulnerable because T hawk’s options against vertical balls are very uniform.

Blanka’s :lk::mk::hk: upballs are completely SAFE to Ultra… even in the corner :lame:

EX on the other hand is a different story
Regardless of positioning, mid screen or corner, T hawk can dash up and Ultra!

Against EX Up ball on block = Dash Up Ultra
Puuurday Pictures = :f::f::360::360::3p:[/details]

Now that the easy characters are complete, let us move on.

The characters listed below are more difficult to apply ultras against. They are more difficult because the ultra technique to apply will depend on the strength of reversal the opponent uses…

Let’s Begin with shotos

Ryu

[details=Spoiler]
Ryu
:lp: Dp = Slow 720
*Whiffed cr lk works, but it’s very difficult

:mp: Dp = All
:hp: Dp= All
:ex: Dp = All[/details]

Ken

Spoiler

Ken
Same as Ryu
:lp: Dp = Slow 720
:mp::hp:ex:All

Akuma

[details=Spoiler]
Akuma
Akuma’s Dps are the worst of all Shotos

http://shoryuken.com/forum/file:///C:\DOCUME~1\Owner\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.gif

:lp: Dp = Slow 720
Whiff throw :lp::lk:
or Dash

:mp::hp::ex: ALL[/details]

Evil Ryu

[details=Spoiler]
Evil Ryu
Same as Ryu[/details]

Oni

Spoiler

Oni
:lp: Dp = Slow 720
:mp: = Very hard to punish… all three options work however all of their application are tight!

http://shoryuken.com/forum/file:///C:\DOCUME~1\Owner\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.gif

:hp: ALL

Dan

[details=Spoiler]
Dan
Same as Ryu

:lp: dp= Slow 720
:mp::hp: ALL[/details]

The Twins

[details=Spoiler]

[spoiler=Yun]
Yun
:lk: Dp= T. Hawk can Reversal Ultra!
:360::360::360::360: :lp::mp::hp: :lp::mp::hp: :lp::mp::hp:
Just Mash!

:mk: dp= Hardest of all the DPs to punish which is unfortunate because :mk: is the dp Yun’s use for their combos!

To punish this ultra, you must whiff a cr:lk:
The timing for this is fairly strict o_O…
Test it out to get a feel for it

:hk: Dp= You can either whiff a standing throw - :lp::lk:
or you can whiff a cr :lk:
Pick your poison

Ex Dp= A special case… Cr :lk: works fine however Yun travels fairly fast!
If you want an ultra you’ll have to do a cr:lk: ASAP as to not have the ultra input be messup by Yun’s crossing over!

You need to do this faster than usual[/details]

Yang

Spoiler

Yang
Yang is highly irregular o_O

:lk: Dp= The easiest one to punish!
Against this Dp you can either Dash forward
:f::f: :360::360::3p:

Also, Yang is fairly high in the air so you can whiff a cr:lk:

:mk:dp= Not quite as bad for yang as :lk: but Hawk can still punish it almost as easily.
Against Mk Dp Hawk can dash up ultra
:f::f: :360::360::3p:

:hk:: The safest and hardest one to punish! :wtf:
It’s similar to Ryu’s :lp: dp in that the only way to punish this one is to
do a slow 720
:360::360::3p:

EX Dp= The same as :mk:
Hawk simply dashes forward and ultras
:f::f::360::360::3p:[/details]

Alpha Characters

[details=Spoiler]

[spoiler=Rose]
Rose
Not much to say about rose
ALL of her soul throws are very easy to punish…
Theoretically Hawk can punish with ANYTHING he wants however the move is fairly quick to fly into the air and because you’ll need to react quickley

I recommend making it a reflex to
Whiff cr:lk: to 720[/details]

Gen

[details=Spoiler]
Gen
Gen is the ONLY character where punishing with 720 relys not on a quick reaction maneuver!
Against a blocked DP from gen you must watch him closely!

If the gen player decides to press a :k: button and have gen hover over then the punish is guarenteed!

AS SOON as you see gen do the kick in the air
whiff cr:lk: into ultra!
It’s that simple!

If, on the other hand, Gen does not use a :k: while in the air…
Punish with something else I suppose :slight_smile: [/details]

Sakura

[details=Spoiler]
Sakura
:lp: Dp= Slow 720
:mp: dp = Whiff cr :lk:
:hp: dp = Whiff cr :lk:

Ex= Slow 720:wasted:
It’s possible to whiff a cr:lk: however the timing is very strict![/details]

Adon

[details=Spoiler]
Adon
:lk: Dp= Slow 720

:mk: Dp= Either whiff a cr:lk: or dash forward
:f::f::360::360::3p:

:hk: Dp= FREE however! bothing whiffing a throw and dashing forward make the window for Ultra punish fairly tight

I recommend whiffing cr:lk:

Ex Dp= FREE[/details]

Guy

Spoiler

Guy
Guy only has one wake up tatsu to worry about…
His EX
And lucky for T hawk… ultra punishing this move is very very easy

After blocking the first kick
Simply whiff a cr:lk:
or a cr:mk: if you want a little more time to input the 720
and then ultra

Against Guy: whiff cr:lk: or cr:mk: -> :360::360::3p:
pretty easy…

Further inside by Onions

[spoiler= Guy]

[/details][/details]

3rd Strike + ST Characters

[details=Spoiler]

[spoiler= Ibuki]
Ibuki
All of Ibuki’s Non EX Dps are handles the same way
:lk::mk::hk:

Against these Hawk can whiff a cr:lk: to ultra
It is very tight however!
Other options do not work

Her EX is a complicated story
It’s complicated because of her option to throw the kunai or not.

If Ibuki DOES NOT Throw the Kunai, Hawk can whiff a cr:lk: or Dash forward
:f::f::360::360::3p:

However, IF SHE THROWS the kunai, the options are different
As hawk you can Focus attack :mp::mk:, quickly absorb the Kunai
Dash forward and ultra :slight_smile:

From these optoins it seems that as Hawk you must simply GUESS as to whether or not she’ll throw the Kunai!

To beath both options you reversal EX Condor Spire!
If Ibuki DOES NOT throw the Kunai, she will get hit by it
If she throws the kunai, T hawk will fly underneath her and be able to ultra her from behind as she falls back down…

Something to consider…[/details]

Dudley

Spoiler

Dudley
:lp: Dp= Slow 720
:360::360::3p:

:mp: Dp= Whiff a cr :lk:

:hp: and EX are both FREE

DeeJay

Spoiler

DJ
Important for some Hawk players out there

:lk: flash kick = Reversal!
:360::360::360::360: :lp:mp:hp: :lp:mp:hp:
Just Mash!

:mk: Whiff a cr:lk: into ultra

:hk: Flash kick = Special!
Against a Crouching Hawk, Deejay will fly right over his head clean!
To beat this flash kick

Back dash into ultra
:b::b: :360::360::3p:

Ex= The most important one! fortunately for You hawk players, It is very easy to punish!
As Deejay is flying right above you
Whiff a cr:lk:
or a cr:mk: if you want a little extra time to input the ultra
FREEEEEE :slight_smile:

Fei Long

Spoiler

Fei Long
:lk: dp= Everything works, however whiffing a cr:lk: and whiffing a standing throw :lp::lk: make the ultra timing right after pretty difficult

Against Fei Long I recommend dashing forward
:f::f::360::360::3p:

:mk: Same as :lk:

:hk: and Ex are both **FREEEE **[/details]

Seth

[details=Spoiler]
Seth
The Boss
This is a pain in the ass!

What makes seth a pain in the ass is his ability to cancel his uppercuts into the spinng follow up! He can do this on block and what’s worse is that he can cancel it in a wide window!

The extra spinning aside All of his Dps are FREE aside from :lp: version in which case you’ll have to whiff a cr:lk:

If seth cancels his DPS into the follow ups, you may be able to simply lvl 3 Focus attack!
This isn’t guarenteed! It’s possible to do it too early or too late, it all depends on seth’s timing.

You’ll have to use your judgement due to the fact that the timing can be different everytime![/details]

Ok
The thread is complete…

Please leave you thoughts

I like them. Keep up the good work.

Eddie you are the hero this forum needs, but not the one it deserves.

I’d also like to add in that although the frame data reads that Guy’s Ex tatsu is -20 on block since you block only the first kick it is effectively much worse!!!

In order to whiff a normal and get an ultra you’d have to be directly next to Guy as he wakes up, any farther than that the Ultra 1 whiffs!

However, because Guy’s Ex Tatsu is worse on block than we’d normally believe you can actually dash forward and Ultra 1 free.

Some of these can probably be made easier with walking 720. You know, press U during block stun, then HCF, hold F, HCB, UB+PPP. It’s the best way to do a slow 720 since the ups are the very first and very last inputs, giving you a lot of time to do it without the need to buffer during something.You can also walk backwards I guess, by mirroring the input.

Yeah!

Now that you mention it, that method of going about turning a 720 on the stick reminds me of a video i saw of Vesper Arcade
Showing Honda’s HHS FADC UCII back in super days…

I remember him describing going about doing the 720 in a way that vaguely resembles what you’ve described…
I’ll go into training mode and get a feel on how it works and apply it across the board and then supplement the guide accordingly…

thanks for the input!

No problem, this is important knowledge. I’ve felt many times that I do not dare to try a U1 punish on DPs, this guide will definitely help.

Not saying I do this kind of work for recognition or for praise
I do it because I want to make a difference in people’s play…

But man…
I expected a bigger response from people after 3 weeks…
Is there too much text to read though?

Why haven’t more people responded to the information here?

I won’t speak for anyone else, but I am used to punish with MP xx Tomahawk. It comes out 100% of the time, bears no risk for myself as I couldn’t stand losing a round because of fucking up the motion or Ultra 1 not coming out. I’m pressing a lot of buttons.

I can see the advantage and importance, because it’s not just blocked Reversals that can be punished with Ultra 1.

The reason nobody is responding is probably that a majority of the players are fed up with this game.

Fine…
I’ll showcase these techniques… maybe if people SEE this in action they’ll be better inspired…
Video montage coming within the next couple weeks.

This is sick! Practicing these now. =]

KOG uses it:

[media=youtube]5lSSdM-5w1c[/media]

1:06:17

if only he didn’t eat that fireball immediately after :rofl:

lol, death by flaming shoto - this sorry ass game to a T.

If they can’t dash and spin their sticks 720 on such a slow version of Street Fighter, maybe just pick someone else? Half these guys don’t even press three buttons anyway, but then the game itself provides the macro :rolleyes:

bump

Bump…

Revisited this thread
From the update SRK had months ago… the toggles had their labels removed.

Went within each toggle and added a name again so reading through the material and understanding everything is possible again.

Also went about and edited a few of the posts
Cut out some extra fluff, ought to be a faster read.