I don’t know, I’ve been to the circus a few times in my day and the juggling I’ve seen there was way more impressive than Tekken. Maybe they didn’t bounce their pins against walls but it was still really good.
Nah, the juggles are so good in tekken that the characters seem like they are balloons.
Hmm. I haven’t read through the entire thread yet, just jchensor’s posts; the stuff he says about srk–> fadc actually making it easier to punish srks is a revelation to me. Thank you for this insight. (There were also others in your posts, but this was the most important one to me.)
That’s pretty much my point. In SF2 you COULD do big damage with a throw or a 3 hit combo. But when you go for that, you commit to it, and leave yourself open to counter. If you land it, big damage for you. If it gets blocked it’s usually back to even. And if you get countered, not only do you take damage, but your put into a bad position. My problem is that SF4 doesn’t work like that. You often don’t have to commit to anything. There’s seldom any risk. It’s a lot of fishing for stuff instead of trying to land your thing and hoping you chose right. IMO, that’s what leads to more defensive play and what limits the roster in terms of tiers.
Very much agreed! I am really happy that it sounds like most (all?) ultras got nerfed in super. Hopefully this will take some focus away from being able to hit-confirm ultra as being the measuring stick for how good a character is. Supers and Ultras are powerful tools, no doubt. But I’d rather have the matches be a bit more about how your character works instead of how safely you can land a 50% combo.
Well, this is where I get frustrated when people start complaining about SFIV (not directed at you, SJV, but everyone in general). We say a lot of hit confirms don’t require risk because they are just that: hit confirms. But then people complain about NO SAFE Block String because of the Block Stun differences and how easy it is to mash DP in between pokes.
So I keep saying this, but it drives me nuts how people complain about A and then complain about B, yet A and B end up neutralizing each other. Yeah, there are hella hit confirms in this game, like Bison’s Low Short, Low Short, Low Short XX Scissor Kick… but Low Short, Low Short isn’t a true block string so you can punish him with a DP in between. Doesn’t that… balance stuff out?
The thing is, SFIV is like ST. One thing I LOVED about ST is that they were careful: every super sucks as anti-air (one of the reasons I get mad at HDR is because 4 or 5 supers were turned into real anti-airs, something I honestly believe is a huge flaw in the game, but that’s another time and place). And that’s because there are VERY little options when you jump. You either suceed or fail, it’s ST’s mantra regarding Jumping. There’s no Parry or Custom Combo to save your ass, and that’s old school.
Not allowing for anti-air Ultras is just that: it’s already hard enough to jump in in these types of games, why make it harder? I like having bad anti-air Ultra. I’d rather have them be hit confirmable than work as Anti-Air. It may seem unintuitive to have stupid ways to land Ultras and yet not let you buffer into them or use them as straight Anti-Airs, but I think it all works out in a strange way. And I think the startup of the Ultras and such were there just so you can’t use them to easily punish everything. I like the fact that a lot of things can be punished by Supers, but not by Ultras. That balances out well. If, for example, Cammy’s Ultra came out in 6 frames like her Super did, I could punish everything all over the place… Balrog low Roundhouses, Honda Jab Headbutts, etc. But the fact that the FREE Ultra has so much start up makes them fair. Otherwise, they’d be too buff. It has little to do with using them in Combos, but using them in all sorts of other practical places.
So I have no response to the trade SRK and fwd + HK. I hate both of those, and 100% agree those are dumb. The Balrog one I’m not so much frustrated by mainly because that Ultra does crap for damage afterwards and I had heard rumors that Balrog sucked really badly, as in easily worst character in the game, up until the very end, right before SFIV was released, and it was only because they gave him things like Headbutt into Ultra that he finally became competitive. So I think, for Balrog, it is strangely justified.
As for the trading, as I said, it’s REALLY hard to figure out a way to make that NOT work. Again, I’m obsessed with game systesm and how Juggles work and such, and I have yet to figure out a real, elegant solution to preventing trades into Ultras OUTSIDE of just making all Uppercuts more buff, so they all have longer invincibility so that the first vulnerable frame of an Uppercut is officially off the ground. If you don’t give him more invincible frames and just make the first few hitting frames off the ground right away, you won’t be able to Super cancel or Focus Cancel them anymore. So stronger DPs seems the way to go.
Well, again, in ST it wasn’t a bit deal. Landing Supers really didn’t matter, because my normal Combo did as much as a Super. I always joked that, using Cammy, my Super meter was used 90% of the time for chip damage death. I never cared to try fishing with my Super, because my normal Combos did as much damage. And MY Super was mostly safe!
In SFIV, you’re right: most people never use Ultras unless they successfully land the combo. But the thing is most people who hate Ultras only focus on the Ultras. They hate it when they see them connect, but it’s the same for Chun Li Low Forward in Third Strike or A-Groove Bison CC in CvS2: you aren’t using your meter until you land the move in the first place. The thing is, in those games, people learned not to focus on the meter, but on how to prevent the hit confirms from working! It’s like Cable in MvC2. I mean, AHVB is about as broken as you can get. Yet somehow Cable is NOT the best character in the game… in fact, far from it – 4th best, I believe. And why? Because people began to play MvC2 focusing on how to prevent Cable from being in the position to land an AHVB, and once they did, it shut him down.
Rufus is a special case. He has 90 gazillion ways to land the Ultra. I have a feeling Capcom did it on purpose, somehow giving the lazy, fat American the stupidest and most brain-dead ways to land Ultras feels like a statement from Capcom of Japan. But for most of the other characters, if you focus on how they land their Ultras, you can really start shutting their game down. For example, if Bison is behind and needs a comeback, never jump at him anymore. It’s the only way he’ll even land his Ultra. So you shut down his comeback factor, he gets frustrated, and kills himself with no life left. Rather than focus on the fact that Jump Strong x 2 into Ultra is a brain-dead easy hit confirm, focus on how you can take that away from him. That’s how SFIV needs to be played, and once you think of everything like AHVBs, you can see how SFIV evolves to be a different game.
See, it’s already fairly defeatist right away when you say you try to embrace the “dumb” tactics that exist in SFIV. That’s like me saying, “Oh, okay, I’ll try to enjoy playing the scrubbier and boring Cammy in HDR.” You can tell I’m gonna hate it forever no matter how much I try, and I am guilty of it myself so I understand why you feel that way. But if you really wanna give SFIV a chance, you have to stop thinking of those things as dumb. Otherwise, just quit SFIV in the way that I quit ever trying to play Cammy in HDR.
Again, every character has a set number of ways to land Ultra. So long as you shut those down, they become less a factor. That’s the nice thing about Ultras. Lemme give the perfect example: how many games of HDR have you played where the opponent has 60% life left and you have zero vital, and you kill them completely based on the fact that you know they are just trying to find a cheap and easy way to chip you to death? Yet if they played their normal game, they would have killed you easier? I’m sure it’s happened lots of times. SFIV is exactly the same way. When your opponent gets Ultras, you can TOTALLY use that to your advantage, especially if you know your opponent likes to use Ultras. I play a specific Ryu player that is iin love with Uppercut FADC Ultra. Once he gets the Ultra, it’s his favorite thing to try. I’ve learned very much to just Block a lot against him, and sooner or later, he’ll waste his Super Meter. Now, I don’t have to worry about LOTS of things, like EX Fireballs breaking my Focus or him having safe DPs anymore. So I use the fact that he got an Ultra to my advantage and use it to defeat him.
Again, this is another time and place, but I think there’s something more deep than just that. But I’ll get into another time. Maybe we should just meet up for dinner or something. Hahahaha.
Yeah, not top tier, but high tier. The last conversation I had had him in the second tier. Top tier was 5 characters, 2nd tier was 5 characters, so he’s top 10 for sure. But I consider the first 10 characters all capable of winning. Mid tier, to me, doesn’t start until the 11th character. But that’s just my opinion. So when I say top, I mean top or high tier. Sop maybe my semantics are causing a bit of confusion, though Mago, the PREMIERE Sagat user if I’m not mistaken, ranks Honda 5th in the game according to Justin. That says a lot.
Well, focusing on P-Groove Cammy didn’t really IMO have much to do with the argument I was trying to make but whatever. ~_^ I’m just saying that sitting on a meter is a strategy as old as it gets. Daigo against Dhalsims in ST would just Jab DP all day, and let Dhalsim hit him with Fierces and such. He didn’t care, so long as he got his meter. Once he got it, he would sit on it so Dhalsim would lose his Fireball game and he could start rushing down. And if Sim ever caught on and starting throwing more Fireballs, then he would Super through it and kill Dhalsim. So I just don’t see sitting on an FADC as anything specific to SFIV. THat was the point I was trying to make.
Yeah, but like I said to SJV, AHVBs, Valle CC’s, Chun Super in 3S… there are so many games where this happens. So if you adjust your game accordingly, it’s not any different than any other game. I don’t see what makes SFIV’s situtaion any worse than older games where this happened all the time.
Yes, I agree wholeheartedly. Sagat needs his health gimped or his damage gimped. Obviously they won’t get it right the first time. In fact, from the Vegas build, everyone has been saying Sagat does overall less damage, so I think that works out great. And I’ve NEVER been a fan of gimping people’s health to make them “balanced” like Akuma and Seth are. But, again, that’s happened in every game forever. CvS2 did it, 3rd Strike did it, and on and on, so it’s an evil we have to live with.
Yeah, but that’s all part of the balancing act, no? If you try to balance characters using a set of criteria A, B, and C, you’ll end up with a lot of characters who are very homogenized. But if you allow for A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, and I as means by which to balance characters, you have a greater means by which to maintain balance yet promote variety. It’s nice how in SFIV that most characters play differently. Others have claimed how easy it is to switch to other characters, but I disagree: I find it nigh impossible. I play other characters and die sad deaths because I have no clue what to do with them. It feels a lot like ST. Yet in CvS2 or Third Strike, I can Roll through and Parry things with any character I use, so I feel like the universal systems add a crutch to swtiching characters. Which can be argued as a GOOD thing, of course. So at this point, it’s just where your preferences lie.
Agree. Agree agree agree. In the HDR thread before HDR was released, I made a comment that any game where Zangief is the best character in the game is NOT FUN. And I got REEMED for it. Man, people shit on me so badly when I said that. “Why is it any different than a game where Guile is the best?!?” And it’s because, like you said, Zangief is just inherently a bad game design. He’s the hardest type of character, alongside Dhalsim, to make fair in a game. He either sucks or is too good, so for guys like Gief, I’d rather have them suck and be a struggle to win.
Yeah, I’m really not sure what the heck Capcom was doing when they made Ken’s moves mostly worse than Ryu’s. I’m guessing they originally believed the Step Kick was too good of an attack, IMO. But as the game progressed, it became very clear that the step kick was NOT very good at all, not nearly as “broken” or effective as originally deemed. And that IS what makes Ken so horrid in SFIV. He simply has no approach options outside of Step Kick, which is mediocre at best. Again, it’s hard to make these decisions correctly in the first iteration of games, and in the Vegas build I was told Ken was already improved, such as his Fireball being as fast as Ryu’s and such. So I think they are aware they made a mistake.
Yeah, Cammy doesn’t need an overhead. 
At all.
And I think there are more Master Level Kens just due to quantity. It’s easier to use Ken, and probably more fun to use Ken – a watered down Ryu – than it is to use Abel, BLanka, Dictator, Viper, and Honda. I mean, in ST, he wasn’t good either. But I’ve been told many stories of American players walking into Japanese arcades and seeing, in 5 or 6 ST machines, 11 of the 12 characters being used were Ken. I think something about using a watered down Shoto is appealing to Japanese players or something.
Well, maybe I’m a bit immune to that because old school games like ST and HF had no options either in the garnd scheme of things. So I enjoy that type of gameplay, I guess. Maybe that’s why I suck at 3rd Strike or CvS2: too many options overloads my brain. Hahaha. And I dunno, I’ve always enjoyed playing the character. Again, might be just my old-school mindset being nostalgic for the days when knowing how to beat OG.Sagat with Guile required REALLY specific knowledge against THAT CHARACTER. I like that type of thing.
Can you give me an example of what “forcing an error” is that ISN’T baiting? I honestly consider them almost the same thing. I can’t think of an example of forcing an error that isn’t baiting someone.
The team mechanic isn’t flawed, it just covers up holes in character imbalance a lot better, so it matters LESS. Yes, in the end, it’s about character imbalance, but there are ways around it. If you could ONLY use Maki, then character balance would be a HUGE HUGE HUGE issue in CvS2. You’d have all these Yuri threads on “How do I beat Honda?!?” But as it is, it’s not really a huge deal.
I just wanted to say I do agree with a HUGE part of your post, Jagger. Most of what you said is absolutely true. And I agree there are a lot of suspect balance issues found in SFIV. But again, it’s the first attempt, and they probably had no clue where some of the characters were going. And you can balance a game until the cows come home, but it’s gotta get released at some point, so you’re still going off of what you perceive at the time, particularly for a game that is the first iteration, built completely from scratch. Knowing that maybe makes me overly forgiving of a lot of SFIV’s mistakes, but the fact that I can still play it and have fun is really what matters most to me. And since it feels a lot more old school to me, I think I tend to enjoy it more than those who were weened on the CvS2, MvC2, and Third Strike eras, where Fighting Games weere loaded with a TON of stuff.
- James
James Chen, why you so S Tier at posting logical thought?
from somebody thats new to the whole taking fighting games seriously since last year ill throw in my 2 cents. Basically I have been very much so interested in fighting games since I seen sf2 ww in the arcades. I was hooked to it the whole fighting each other in marital arts and fireballs yada yada but i only played as far as it could take me as in playing on consoles when it came out and playing at the arcade when I could get the chance to(i was 6-12 at the time).Naturally over the years due getting into other games and seeing fighting games as something to just have they was kinda just for fun type until summer of 08 when I could not find a job and I have no next gen system to play so i stumbled upon ggpo amd emu’s. I was taken back into fighters once again being that I could finally play sst in its full glory( wasn’t interested enough to buy on ps2 when it was out and I actually thought the game was unfair) so i started playing and man the game just sucked me in. the mechancs of the game, the learning curve was though for me but it was good because it was challenging. And being on top of it playing other people around the world on ggpo and some well known seasoned vets and actually winning some battles was self satisifying to me but I alwayed wish there was someone where people can play in person 
3 months afterwards I stumbled on this site on accident actually and by that time I think sthdremix just had came out and i finally had a next gen system. The only reason I used to go on this site was to get some info on st and other sf/snk related games to get my skills up online until I came across the regional section and found my area and there was people that actually played games and met up and had torneys and all that. I had no clue people was even serious about fighting games I always thought it was exclusive to fps’es and things of that nature. But anyway coming from a sf/snk background and being hyped for sf4 with next gen possiblities I copped sf4 like everyone else. First thing I fell like lovewith was the glitz and glamour of the graphics and flashy ultras like some people but after that all washed away the gameplay seemed to easy with some characters like ryu ken sagat (before the lariat spamers and other characters exploits was being used) and other things without going all into detail and I havent been around the scene hardcore but I can see why they made sf4 the way it is and its one word “accessibilty”. There are a lot of players that just want to play and do cool ultras and not play the game hardcore like some of us but my point of telling my story is that same person could be someone like me that started playing casually but eventually started to dig deeper into the game resulting to that person being an actual player of the game and capcom knows this so of course they are going to make the game friendly to new players. besides capcom started to move away from the being hardcore over the years anyway.
Excuse the grammatical errors(at work and some reason the keystokes are messing up ) and the long story short there are people that really love the game and the reason for me telling the story is that some people like myself just wasn’t up on how serious or deep these games can be unless you was introduced to them. Give the new players some time to grow but like i said capcom’s has to sell units too. Fin
There needs to be a court order where he is required to post more often.
op, are you afraid of getting pwned by scrubs?
I get what you’re saying JChen and I really appreciate how you’re probably the civil argumentive person on SRK. I just feel like SFIV in its current state has a lot of those issues that other fighting games may have had and compounds them in a game where for me it just feels like you’re able to do less offensively than in those games. Like a match between 2 characters that were in Super Turbo in SFIV just takes 2 minutes longer because of the low health bars and the fact that it half the time consists of 2 characters that can’t combo into Ultra and have shit damage BnB’s. Why play that when I can just play ST?
Whenever I play someone who knows what they’re doing in SFIV…I just say to myself “yeah this would have been more fun if we were playing ST”. Shit would have went down quicker…mind games would have been quicker…bad matches would be able to be turned around on a dime off of something that doesn’t require meter etc.
That’s why I tried to play C.Viper cuz I thought she was going to bring that high damage pressure that I liked from ST and even a bit of what I liked of Ibuki from 3rd Strike but in the end she’s just a character that has like almost no footsies against Rog and literally gets sat on by Honda. So in a lot of my matches I’m just playing like a bitch and jerking and feinting all over the place just to lose. Meh. I guess I’m just looking for a character like C.Viper but with better footsies than C.Viper. That’s what I got with Blanka in ST and Ibuki in 3rd Strike. Using a character that has such sub par footsies in a game where the higher tiers are just trying to footsie the shit out of you I just don’t like it anymore. I picked up Sagat as a secondary but he’s just another “gay you out” type character. :lol: So I only really use him for matches that are gay for C.Viper cuz I give them back what they do to my Viper.
They almost are the same thing. The difference, in this game at least, is basically down to the reversals, absolute guard, and invul frames. If you’re getting pressured as Rufus, why not pop an EX Messiah since it rips through so much and immediately returns things to a more favorable state? If the only reason you can think of is “well, the other guy knows that and is about to let it whiff because he has no other response to it”, that’s baiting. Forcing an error is more-or-less pressure that leads to all that good stuff we like to romanticize fighting games for having, while baitable reversals are just a reset button on the other guy’s momentum; you press it or you don’t, it hits or whiffs/gets blocked.
That’s the thing for me: i can’t see this as a “first attempt”. It’s possible if you just take SF4 in its own context, but that’s not the case. It’s just not that radical in design, and in fact it’s the relative simplicity that makes me far less forgiving of the mistakes. Especially in the age of patches, since most of the real problems are just tiiiiiiiiiiny adjustments away from being fixed.
God, what i wouldn’t give if, just for a year, Japanese devs figured out what a fucking patch is and Western devs forgot.
This. A lot of old players just ask for crap they’re accustomed to from previous games.
Balance-wise? Perhaps. Fun-wise? Not IMO. Most of the stuff I wish were different in SF4 has zero to do with how balanced or competitive it is. It’s about how fun it is to play.
In most SF games, most of the time when I get beat, I feel like I got outplayed. But in SF4, I often feel like I get lamed out. Maybe it’s because I’ve never been a turtle style player. Even though I play Sim in SF2, I play him at least as much rush down as I do zone. In SF4 it just so often feels like you NEED to try to do nothing but defend, run away, and fish for openings. I just don’t find that fun, even if playing that way makes it somewhat balanced.
You may not get all of the damage, and using a normal AA may be better since you can save your meter for threat, but I think saying they suck is a little overboard. Most non-grapple supers work as AA, even if it’s not the choice you’d normally use.
I hear ya on the free part. That’s probably the toughest part to balance. To that end, I totally see where you’re coming from, but it still feels wrong to me. For example, Gouken has a SUPER and ULTRA shoryuken. But using them as AA is really, really tough. You need to catch their jump WAY early to land either one. And that just plain feels wrong to me. On one hand, I’m with you that getting beat up and then being able to stop anyone from rushing you down is lame. But on the other hand, it’s not like jump-ins have ever been a good idea in any SF game ever. So, I dunno.
I’d probably have less of a problem with this if supers played even remotely as important a role as ultras, but they don’t. In most games post SF2, you got tons of supers. But in SF4, you rarely see supers used. If that weren’t the case, then I might find ultras being impotent as AA reasonable, but as it is, ultras often feel like the only super move you really get to use and having umpteen start-up frames on them just feels weird. Again, this is less of a balance issue and more of a “not fun” or “feels wrong” gripe.
With Balrog, its not so much the damage potential but the fact that when he lands it he quite often pushes you into the corner. If his normals weren’t so retarded then it wouldn’t be a problem. But once he gets you into the corner, with many characters, it becomes really ridiculous to deal with his stuff.
That doesn’t surprise me too much. But I think it highlights why SF4 feels rushed to me. And while I do agree that they did a decent job for a first outing, my fear is that because of the mass appeal of the game they’ll be less likely to change things in a major way for super. If it was the normal changes of WW->CE, A1->A2, etc. I’d be less worried about these types of things sticking. But the press I’ve heard so far is that they’re not trying to take away the tools people love to use in SF4. I’m trying to be optimistic for super, but talk like that does worry me a little.
It’d be pretty simple. Just put a flag in the game that says you can’t juggle with ANYTHING if you trade until the other guy lands. They wouldn’t need to alter any move properties at all.
Yup, and I never liked any of those tactics either. Again, it’s not that these things upset the balance in the game. And its not that there aren’t ways around those things. They just make it less fun IMO. On the one hand, I like that in SF4 controlling space matters a bit again because you can’t parry, or roll, or whatever through everything. But on the other hand, I don’t like that once someone gets meter your job is to either run away and block/tech a lot if the other guy has meter or try a bunch of safe stuff and fish for a way to land it if you get meter. Sure, there’s a bunch of play that revolves around that. It just feels less fun to me than some of the “basic” strats in earlier games.
Yeah, again I get it. I just think that’s less fun and less varied gameplay than the way it could be. I mean, in ST or alpha once someone gets meter you gotta be a lot more careful. But in those game, they have to take a risk and say “Hey, I think you’re about to leave yourself open! I’m gonna do a combo into super or activate” and they either guess right and it hits or they guess wrong, you block and take chip damage, or on rare occasion you read them like a book and avoid it entirely and punish.
But only scrubs play that way 97% of the time in SF4. There is none of that guessing for the BIG damage or the ability to drain that threat. It’s mostly hit-confirms. Sure, Akuma *might *try some tricky setup into super/ultra. Or other things like that. But most characters and play styles aren’t like that at all. It’s more likely that you throw out a random wrong move that gets hit-confirmed into big damage. And again, that’s my main gripe. Hit confirms = turtling = boring…to me anyway.
I totally get what you’re saying. I decided to finally learn this game mostly in the hopes that super has less of things I find offensive in SF4. And like I say, I have been having fun with it. But at the same time, sometimes it really annoys me and pisses me off. It’s the same level of anger and frustration that I had 20 years ago playing SF2, except in those days it was mostly because I didn’t know how to counter tick throws and fireball traps, etc. With SF4, I know what’s up and it frustrates me despite that. LOL!
Yeah, I hear ya on that. But again, and I feel like a broken record at this point, if the main ways to land ultras weren’t hit-confirms then I’d find this a lot more fun. But instead of trying to look like I’m vulnerable and getting them to fire it out and only taking chip damage, instead I have to bait their launcher move, which is sometimes something as tame as cr.jab. That pushes the game a lot more towards defend and run-away. And I just don’t think that’s as fun.
Hehe, fair enough. We should get together again sometime. Maybe some dinner, maybe some games. I’ll give you a shout next time Megaman comes back up to LA. Maybe we can all get together, grab some food, and play some games 
The one thing I have noticed with the newer players is that they complain about everything. Sagat being too strong, costumes costing too much, etc etc.
The main thing that annoys me about a lot of players these days is how they, take for instance, demand for Dudley, calling Dudley a bad ass character, yet they say this never playing SFIII or hearing of SFIII until 2009. Makes me sad. I know my join date is 2009, if I knew how important join dates were here, I would go back in time and find myself in 2002 and make my 13 year old self join SRK, to avoid the hassle that would fall on my head years later but oh well, I still played SF back then, I just did not realize how beserk and huge the community was behind it.
Back to the new players, the guys who played DMC and COD before SFIV. I think it is good that SFIV brought in so many players, it really is. I thought for sure there would never be another SF game, I even said this aloud to my friends in June of 2007. With this many new players, buying TE sticks and costume packs, there is almost no way we wont be getting more SF games in the future.
The bad part of these new players is their lack of knowledge of the past games and how they assume Sagat is the most broken character in SF history, or that DSP was once a major champion since he talks big on his videos, etc. I guess my main gripe would be the younger generation of kids, even outside of SF, are spoiled, and think everything is right and fair or they cry about it. These same kids just a year or two ago were crying about how unbalanced the battle rifle in Halo 3 was or how they attempted to ban Meta-Knight in SSBB.
I complained about V-Ism in Alpha 3 and how boring it made the game. Well, not on SRK, but I’ve been complaining about shit for a while now. Don’t need an SRK membership to do that. Why shouldn’t we complain about Sagats’ power? He’s too good. Comparing SF4 tiers to other FG tiers shows that SF4 is probably a lot more balanced than the compared game, but that doesn’t mean we should just allow Sagat to do SGS damage off of his easily jugglable/anti air ultra, because he’s “the worst top tier ever”. If shit is easy to fix, do it.
Or, you know, and this might be far fetched for you to believe but maybe SF4 is just mediocre comes pared to a lot of the games they used to play.
Anyways, Jchensors post was really good.
Great post sir. I will try to be nicer to the noobies. i know i’ve talked down to a couple of 09’ers and now I feel bad about it when you make a post like this. (Well not that badly ) Some of us old school srk’ers come off as elitist towards the new players and that shouldn’t be the case if we want our community too grow. We are kinda shooting our self in the foot with hating on the noobies. I feel that sf4 is noob friendly, but I do feel it was done on purpose to get the casual players to buy sf4. Atleast capcom did a new sf that most people enjoy. I mean the2d fighting game genre was pretty much dead in capcom eyes imo. Capcom Fighting Jam/Evolution was SUPPOSE to be the last streetfighter/2d fighter capcom ever made! Let that roll around in your head people. CFJ was suppose to be the dedication to the 2d fighter fans and was the last 2d fighter made before sf4 was made. I just think we need to appreciate what we have and hope capcom will listen to the players that have good knowledge of the game. New players can have some input just like og’s. It’s up to capcom on who they listen too. Ono has said that he wants the feedback from the hardcore players to shape sf4, but he doesn’t want it to be so hard that it scares new players away like 3s did. There has to be a common ground both sides can meet. Can’t we all get along?
James: Do you really hit confirm off of one cr. short?
That last line is sig worthy.
i think we have to rally for this one and start a huge neverending thread on Capcom Unity
look at how StarCraft was patched 10+ years by Blizzard… look at how great it still is!