^ lol. can someone finally clear this up. wtf do people think is a difficult street fighter game from beginner to intermediate. no street fighter is super crazy difficult on those two levels. people are upset because they had better games in the history of sf, and when we finally get a new one, its like, it wasnt that broke, so why did you just try to fix it. all they had to do was make it pretty, add maybe one new thing, and tweek a couple old things and wala, perfection.
no one is asking for a overly difficult street fighter, because no street fighter in the history of street fighters was difficult for anyone. no fighting game ever is that difficult on its most basic levels, and only really but so demanding on higher levels of play. its not like at higher levels of play its play beyond human comprehension. lol.
Well that’s the point…Capcom shouldn’t do anything really because if they do then we won’t have a SF5. Not to mention a game that brings in casuals like a new leaked manga of Naruto. :lol: SFIV wouldn’t have worked the way it did without watering it down like they did and at the same time they were able to do that while still retaining the one biggest aspect that OG’s love about SF. Space control. Footsies still work majorily the same and that’s what OG players focus on in any SF fight. Limting your options by forcing you to whiff moves and inching you into the corner. They definitely know that there are aspects of older SF games that are completely ruined in SFIV but they’d rather that happen than lose the biggest part of what makes SF what it is which Ono found a way to keep intact mostly. On a slightly lesser scale of importance fireballs now control space like they used to and aren’t slowed down and easy to bypass like they were in CVS2/3rd Strike which is also a plus.
So yeah I’d rather have a SFIV than no new SF at all but that doesn’t mean it’s the perfect game either. It’s the perfect game for Capcom.
Seth Killian said in a recent interview that for those that didn’t particularly love SFIV there isn’t going to be much change for those people in Super. Basically saying the game is still SFIV in that the game will never return all of the aspects that made the SF2 series as solid as it was. So in effect my wishes for a game that had fundamental aspects that would have helped the game on an offensive standpoint will pretty much go unchanged and it’s all left to what they do with the mechanics that are in the game now. Which isn’t the worst thing in the world but IMO it could have been done better competitively. Either way Seth knows the bigger issue is getting your next door neighbor you don’t talk to to actually give a shit about Street Fighter. Which is better for SF as a whole.
street fighter alpha 3 was one of the most popular series EVER. This game is overly technical and the japense national tournament had 10,000 players show up. The game was HUGE. matter of fact, I even believe some european players also became VERY good towards the end of the games cycle.
Its not a “dumbass” move. People were not afraid of a technical game so thats what capcom gave them.
@ least its better than how the fuck do I do an srk or what does daigo eat
and I don’t see how its a bad thread. The players here can swing some of their ideas to capcom and create a better game. The dvelopers\programmers already come here to ask us to help work on ports to make sure they’re accurate. Why can’t we throw 2cents @ them for a better game? Sf4 fucking sucks, that shit is mad terrible but it can be a good game if the RIGHT people address the problems and how they can be fixed.
when they need something technical to be done sf wise, they come to srk or members of srk and ask for input. like magnetro working on the mvc2 port but when it comes to a brand new game, they’ll listen to people who post on game faq’s and don’t really play SF. It makes no fucking sense.
But seriously, in the end Shoultz its about money. There’s nothing profound about it, players like us surprisingly make up a very small amount of the consumers that factor into sales figures. So at the end of the day, they mean more than us and games are heading down this path and never going back.
Its either force yourself to like the new crap or just make sure u have your buds still dedicated to play the old classics. Hopefully it comes full circle again and we have another golden age so to speak.
Oh I agree! Back when fighting games were all the rage, making it very technical would have been ace! Too bad the market doesn’t revolve around 15 years ago.
Technical = Of or pertaining to the realm of mechanical skills/arts. In the context of fighters, SF4 is not more technical than SSF2T.
Okay, I’m going to type up something that will come off as extremely retarded to pretty much any player at my level or above me. It is a somewhat scrubtastic argument for difficulty in execution, and I know it. But first let me say this: Having to learn and pratice the dexterity side of fighters to keep yourself sharp and able to perform to your best is one of the cornerstones of the genre, in my opinion. Sirlin’s opinion on the subject (simplify input demands as much as possible to get them out of the way of tactical decisions) is dumb as hell to me.
One of the best things about fighters is that it’s not only about thinking. Depending on the game, the balance even tilts toward execution. I can perhaps illustrate the importance of having both sides of the coin be meaningful by coming up with an example like this: Someone with godlike execution and average understanding of the game should be able to squash a player that only focuses on the mental aspects of the game and has substandard execution, and a player with good strategy and knowledge but average execution should be able to squash someone that simply has godlike execution and nothing else. How many fighters can you name that truly present this aspect? Surely, no matter who you ask, the ones with the most (historically speaking) staying power will be mentioned, or at least some of them.
Here comes the retarded part of my argument I told you guys about beforehand: In a sense, fighting games are so appealing to most (though really, I can only speak for myself) because they emulate a side of actual fighting, if you’re willing to look past all the fantasy elements and whatnot. Yes, it’s a video game, but you have to train, you have to invest time to be able to pull off that one combo or move or whatever - In the end, the whole experience is a caricature of being a fighter that extends to outside of the screen: You need to improve yourself physically (this would be the execution part) and mentally to keep treading the road to your true potential. It’s just that instead of hitting a punching bag and working on the form of your kicks or whatever, you’re moving a stick and hitting buttons. :razzy: By having the execution skill ceiling (CEILING, not initial requirement) be high, your game keeps being about the synergy of these two elements longer, and its overall depth grows exponentially.
Sigh…That was so fucking corny. But I’m sure someone else must feel like this (I know at least one such person irl).
In the context of fighters, SF4 is more technical than ST in every way. Technical, in the way that you describe it, applies to people, not the game itself (a game can not have mechanical skills).
Semantics aside, if we’re talking about mechanical skill ie. execution and reaction, then the problem with SFIV isn’t that the moves are easier to pull off, it’s that the counter balance was poorly implemented (easy offense vs easy defense). Textbook reference would be Daigo. Not once did he complain about SFIV’s low execution barrier. Instead, he complained (as many players do) that SFIV has too many defensive options. Stuff like backdash invincibility and gray damage on focus attacks. Even his comment about throws. He didn’t complain that they were weak (in fact, he said that learn to tech throws is the most important thing a new player should learn) - he complained that throw breaks disrupt the flow of the game, a view that he’s had since the system was introduced (ie. before SFIV). Now if you think about it, his complaints centers around what happens at high level play. Daigo’s not out there playing random scrubs. Random scrubs hardly even make use of backdashing and FAs. They prefer reversal on wakeup, or just riding out the mixup. They don’t even understand how throw breaks disrupt game flow. Now one could argue that easy reversals, low block stun and big stages are part of the issue of strong defense, but it’s telling that not one explicit complaint (that I’ve heard so far, at least) about this has come out of Japan so far.
IMO, SFIV’s main problem is that they made offense stronger on the most superficial level (easy execution), while making defense stronger on a deeper level. Case in point: Everyone knew from day 1 SFIV had easy execution, but it took them a while to realize that there were very few airtight blockstrings in the game.
ive worked for game stop for a while now and i have never seen a so many copies of a game get returned. these “new” players are giving up before there is even a chance for the system to make the adjustments they have been asking for. personally i think sf4 puts this game back to square one and also offers a chance to give new players the option to be technical. usually in games there’s not the option, either your good or your not.
for example: in 3rd strike the perry system made it hard to be a cheese ball so the new players didn’t have the chance, in sf4 you can cheese but its a little harder against your experienced player.
i dont think the super installment will be any different form the 4 we are already playing. so ima keep playing 3rd strike. this is coming form a guy that played 4 then found out about 3
ive worked for game stop for a while now and i have never seen a so many copies of a game get returned. these “new” players are giving up before there is even a chance for the system to make the adjustments they have been asking for. personally i think sf4 puts this game back to square one and also offers a chance to give new players the option to be technical. usually in games there’s not the option, either your good or your not.
for example: in 3rd strike the perry system made it hard to be a cheese ball so the new players didn’t have the chance, in sf4 you can cheese but its a little harder against your experienced player.
i dont think the super installment will be any different form the 4 we are already playing. so ima keep playing 3rd strike. this is coming form a guy that played 4 then found out about 3
man scrubs dont even care they are gonna hit buttons and they are gonna whine no matter what. the mechanics of a fighting game barely make any difference in how much it appeals to scrubs
SF4 did breathe new life into the series and a lot of newcomers to the genre. Good or bad you decide. I started playing the series with world warrior and can’t get into SF4 no matter how much i play it.
Also, im kinda dissapointed with Capcom. Seth killians comment is a big slap in the face to those that bought the game, and supported it, and were hoping they would take away the bullshit from the first. I guess they rather milk those retards still mashing DP in G1 thinking they will make pretty good bank. I mean I thought the first game was going to be the pull to lure in new players, and let them appreciate SF as a whole. That way with the later installments they could bring back elements, which made the games more technical and exciting. I’m still hoping it turns out that way, but no far this shit looks bad.
I rather play brawl than sfiv at this point. Shit, there’s way more money in that anyways :lol::lol:
if there’s anyone to blame it’s capcom. Before SF was handed to US capcom, Japanese players basically got the who say on everything. We’d make our points in america but they didn’t listen.
Now that Capcom USA has the rights to do whatever the hell they want with SF, we actually have somewhat of a voice. It may not be a good voice to some, but it’s a voice in general.
i’m not saying I agree so much on what you’re saying. (I kinda do) but opinions are better than none. Just because some casual player mentions/asks for it doesn’t mean it’ll happen. Same goes for a well known player. What kills games like SF4 is the fact it’s trying to bring in new players. As bad as it is, Fighters kinda need said push at the moment. while I don’t think some things added in SF4 are anywhere good (and probably would’ve still been a fun game if half the problems it has wasn’t there.) it sold…which in business terms is good.
now that people are more aware of fighters thanks to 09’s console fighter boom, maybe companies can start being much more serious again with fighting games…
You’re missing the point. Regardless of how easy you may think the game is, the “old” pros still win everything. A flowchart ken won’t be winning evo this year because the inputs are easy. Personally, I would like the mashing element taken out of the game, but I have a feeling it will remain the same. New players aren’t the reason you’re losing. It isn’t stopping the pros.
