New players hurting SF?

Current Fighting Games Fighting Game Discussion
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please read so we can end this

who cares anymore. not being a dick to anyone, but at this point even the people who didnt have shit to say in the beginning of sf4, have even finally got their rants out like myself, and after a couple back and forths i had of a more simpler issue that i think sf4 could be better then it is, those arguments went no where, and only left me frustrated at some random behind the internet i dont give two shits about, over fighting games which if they all disappeared tomorrow, i like most people wouldnt give two fucks.

play what you want. if the future games are not of your taste, and you end up retiring, or playing the same shit for another decade, so be it. im fine with that. if come next year i never play another fighting game again, other then what i own, i dont give a fuck, and no one else should either. pick up a new hobby, go mountain bike, im sure a few here could lose some weight and gain some muscle. we all know we have bigger desires that we want to see manifest in life then expending much more energy on the topic of fighting games, why sf4 sucks, noobs, ect… at least i dont have anymore energy left. the only energy i have left now is to play them, or throw it to the side. that may be due to an age difference then some other players, but if i can say anything, ill say its not a big deal, and arguing about this shit from this day forward is just a waste of time. i see the error in my confused ways for the past couple months, getting into small arguments with people over shit that dont matter, even though most of those people actually took it too far and got all butt hurt, but fuck it, who cares.

lets just see what the future holds, and keep it movin. you dont like sf4, then keep playing something else, and pushing that shit to death. if your friends dont wanna play alpha 2 over sf4, fuck it, go get a new hobby, a girlfriend, make some money, take a vacation, do something. fighting games are just suppose to be fun. my man rugal b said it best in the tekken thread on zaibatsu. fuck all this beefing, and ranting and raving we have all done before. just fucking play, have fun, take your wins and losses like a man, and go do something more important with your life, then argue on srk all day with people that are mostly your juniors in real life. i had to step back like, wtf am i doing posting so much on srk, and actually arguing with people in 2009. i dont give a shit about this shit like that. shit aint paying my bills, aint getting me no women, no clothes, no hoes, no dough. i dont be in vegas in the club talking about fighting games, thinking about them, or giving 1 fuck. lol

fuck all this arguing, its waste of time from a grownup perspective. play, lose, win, move on, unless fighting games are all you got in life, and if so, oh, okay, but i would hope you got something bigger going on life wise. this aint a diss, because i got caught up in the arguing to, because of the hype of all these new releases, and it brought out my competitive spirit again, but not in the right way i feel. so fuck all this arguing. go get some ass, and hit a club. street fighter aint paying ya bills, or locking down a new career for yall.

i feel everyones frustration, but who cares. i have a desire to come to evo2k10 stomping niggaz in these games (maybe not ssf4), but if i dont come in first, or 2nd, who cares. i got so much other shit poppin off in life, im actually shocked i even cared this much. lol. no im not talking down to anyone, just saying its just games. you gonna feel bad coming in 20th at evo this year in ssf4, if you drive a ferrari, and live in a fat ass condo? no. we all just stressed in these crazy times i think, along with all this new hype, and we are directing our energy the wrong ways in my opinion.

not to get all deep. just sayin. like my man steve h said in my interview with him, “you can be good in video games, and suck in real life, now who looks like the fool”. not a quote, but thats basically what he said. everyone needs to step back, breathe, find something new to direct that energy too, and relax. go get ya money up, then when someone beats you, you can laugh at how poor they are. now whos a loser. LOL! jk

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I like the way they were revising CvS2 EO. Removal of Roll Cancel, few balance changes to the Alpha characters and things like P-Groove. The A groove change was…ify, with the property they gave it on Air Activation but overall it was a step in the direction. Do stuff like bring up the lower tiers, such as Kyosuke but honestly I don’t know how I would go about that without making him broken.

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That too. It’s often overlooked how a character being cool/interesting to play can end up holding players that would otherwise be too “jaded” to keep on playing the same character archetypes they were playing 10 years ago. I’m considering properly learning JoJo or Vampire Savior right now for this exact reason: Not only do the characters look stylish as hell, the way some of them play is completely unlike a lot of the stuff I’m used to playing. I mean, I saw a match video of JoJo with a guy that had guns with a little crosshair on the screen or whatever. When I look at it I think “what the hell, that’s awesome, I gotta learn it!”, whereas SF4 is a SF2 throwback with menial system updates and it doesn’t hold my attention. That’s one of the chief reasons for me not bothering with it, in the end.

Oh, and by the way, the “SF4 is shallow” argument isn’t just people wanting to pretend whatever they play is deeper. I do think you could make a compelling argument for its lack of depth compared to earlier entries in the series. It boils down to, like I said earlier in the thread, people having a problem admitting their current game of choice is simple. Not me, though. What I’m playing right now is pretty basic in terms of skill ceiling and I like it just fine, so there. But try badmouthing SF4 right now, when it’s THE game to get competition at, and everyone acts like you’re a grumpy dinosaur shaking your cane at the young folk and insisting things were better back then just because. UP YOUR SKILLS FOR SF4 MAN, ADAPT OR DIE, OR JUST GO BACK TO YOUR WACK-ASS insert game. Yeah right, sure.

Haha, so you’re a former CVS2 player too. You’re 100% right. C-Sagat waiting to confirm into super, always a treat.

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Kyosuke just doesn’t play well with the CVS 2 system. That’s all. There was no way to make him any better without basically cheating. The things that made him bad just weighed too much on him. Kyosuke only works well in Rival Schools. He is bad in nearly ever department, and simply didn’t have enough tools to contend. I guess his C-groove infinite could have made him something, but we all know how hard A groove infinites were. So you won’t see his infinite outside of combo vids. I don’t think I’ve ever heard or seen someone make Kyosuke work, unless they’re playing against terrible players.

CVS2 EO was a really terrible game. The original CVS 2 was where it was at. It had it’s issues, but I can’t think of anything so bad it absolutely need to be fixed. There was RCing, but I can’t say that alone broke the game.

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You sure typed a lot for someone who doesn’t care…

I agree with whomever said folks are complaining just to sound ‘informed’ and OG, when in reality, all their ‘knowledge’ comes from YouTube, SRK posts and living vicariously through other player’s achievments. Hate SFIV because you don’t like the graphics, and hate it all you want for the aesthetics and because there’s no parry…hate it for whatever reason, but hate it for what it is, not for what it isn’t. It’s not 3S, it’s not ST, and it’s not guilty gear…it’s SFIV, and I am thankful that we were given an entirely different game that still keeps the essence and spirit of SF as opposed to getting fourth strike. Seriously, capcom is damned if they do and damned if they don’t. We complained when we got iteration after iteration of SF but what did it cumulate in? That’s right, ST. Same goes with SF3…we got 3S. I think SFIV got off on a helluva great start compared to it’s predecessors and we are the ones to benefit.

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you sure as hell must didnt read what i typed either. i wasnt arguing anything but to stop the bickering. yes, i cared enough to type that, but i dont care enough anymore to argue about games, noobs, or the direction of sf. it was more of a positive last ditch caring. its such a non issue in the real world for most people here, but i think our competitive spirits, and egos are getting in the way of just letting all the back and forth stuff go about a video game. so with that, ill let this go. i just got a buzz, and i wanted to reply to that.

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Naw, you’re right…the Internet turns folks into anonymous jerks and soap boxes are all over the place. My bad, that was uncalled for.

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Spread the word. =)

3S > SF4.

Aren’t meaties pretty much useless in SF4? Or at least that’s what I remember reading.

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Meaties can be used against chars who don’t have 3f invincible reversals. They can be option selected to prevent backdashing so the only safe defensive option in most cases is FA backdash.

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haters are just killing the hype
fuck them.

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I don’t give a fuck that SF4 isn’t 3s. 3s is 3s and I like it that way, I don’t need a clone. I play ST and HDR anyway. Now on to my point.

I don’t think I really ever answered the question but I think the answer would be the same as the streaming one: New players aren’t hurting SF. They’re livening up the scene but it’s only in terms of SF4. If a player really likes the mechanics of SF and the strategy and everything behind it, then I think they’d at least be a little willing to see what came before it. So I guess Azrael is right: we hurt our community more than they do. We don’t introduce them to other games. We don’t explain things to them.

Most/all of you who were here before SF4 know damn well that none of the games that came before it were down right awful (even the 3s haters can’t say it was OMGSOBAD) and now we’re wishing the older games, such as ST, 3s, CvS2, and some people Alpha (I left Marvel out because THE HYPE WILL NEVER DIE!) would get at least a little bit of attention since we’re in the light now. Not to the extent of MLG stuff or shooters, but we’re here now, and all we have is 1 game to show? Where shooters have Halo, Gears, MW, Counterstrike, and others, we have a whole slew of games that are still competitive, no matter how “dead” you think they are, just because there isn’t 100000 people registered for 3s or ST doesn’t mean it’s dead, it just means SF4 has more entrants.

So my gripe is we have all this history, this knowledge, and these games to show off but we won’t because people are afraid that they’ll be pushed out if anything but SF4 pops up anywhere.

Damn, this sounds like younger kids saying Halo 3 is the best game ever when people who played Halo 1 will tell them they’re full of shit.

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ssf2, a1, ng, 3i, [cfj]

Damn, can’t type all caps in posts.

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You know what I mean. Don’t be a bitch and try to throw this somewhere else, I’m talking about the tournament games that have been and still are in majors and regionals today.

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No I don’t know what you mean, and I’m not trying to throw this elsewhere. There have been awful games in the past that were deemed tournament quality (for various reasons) but were dropped as soon their successors were released (or something better came along). I don’t see your point.

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hindsight is 20/20…those games were deemed tournament quality because no one know how much better the games would be in later iterations. did you expect people back then to not use those games because there would inevitably be a better version of it a few years later? seriously? so people weren’t supposed to play those games because they knew capcom would crank out a 2.0 version? it’s because people played the 1.0 that a 2.0 came out. those ‘crappy games’ introduced new mechanics and gameplay that has been refined and tweaked through the years, and in those refinements, we ourselves have become better players who expect better games. without those initial games to direct the genre, we wouldn’t be as disappointed as some of us are in some of the games being produced now. think about all the things that those particular games you listed introduced us to in terms of what we enjoy about street fighter/fighting games and tell me they weren’t worth the time and effort to both produce and play.

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the problem is that interest in these games ARE dying at majors and reigonals. there’s no reason for a tournament organizer to not host these games unless the return doesn’t match the investment. And that’s ok too. games fall in and out of popularity, but that doesn’t mean the scene has to die. if you follow japanese players, you know that there’s still vibrant communities for st, vs, as well as 3s. there are still pretty sizable communites in the us for 3s and cvs2. the problem is that to a new person, a game that is only a year old compares favorably to a game that has been out for decades. there’s just so much that you’ve got to pick up on, including character matchups and playstyle that you can’t develop unless you’ve played the game. that alone can be insurmountable to some people who might be new to fighting games and came in for sf4. on the other side of the coin though, there’s no reason these people CAN’T play these games, and learn and be competitive if they have the passion for the game. and i’m sure you know that if they choose to do so there’s a community of players dedicated to these older games that can help them learn and take that game as far as they want.

but in the end, the games that are popular and are being played right now and are still drawing people en masse will be the ones at the majors. in the end, it’s not up to the organizers or the players, but to the GAMES to attract people.

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Are you saying nobody knew those were crap fighting games compared to what was already released? I don’t buy that at all. SSF2 was complete crap compared to HF. A1 vs ST? Don’t even joke. SF3:NG vs A2? Nowhere in the same Galaxy.

The only game where your argument may hold water was with 2I, but that was a second iteration (and it had some really stupid shit in it) and A3 was way better and had much more fan support.

My point is that people in the FG community seem to have selective memories when it comes to good/bad games. Who can honestly say that SFIV is as bad as those titles I mentioned?

[EDIT]
The bottom line is that as far as this topic goes, it’s got nothing to do with the quality of SFIV. It’s got to do with the smaller proportion of veteran players in the FG community vs 10 years ago. As someone earlier said, the only solution is helping and educating newer players.

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I’m talking about those games in relation to their series, which would mean there was nothing to compare them with and thus judge against. You’re comparing apples to oranges when you try and size up an alpha series game versus an SFII game. I’m saying nobody knew how bad/imbalanced/wonky those games would be until a later iteration was released. Of course alpha was worse than ST, ST had version after version come before it, whilst alpha was the first of three that refined and introduced things that weren’t preset in the SFII series but we saw glimpses of in SFIII.

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Look at the first post. It means exactly those games and compares them to SFIV. And if people acknowledge that almost every iteration of a series improved on it’s predecessor, why are people making such a big deal out of SFIV? It is one of, if not the best first iteration Capcom has produced.

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Hey, we’re on the same side here…I have no qualms with the newest street fighter series. Hell, I would go as far saying I like it. I think it introduces enough new elements to feel fresh and at the same time harkens to an old school time where combos were short and zoning is crucial.

I was responding to your comment that A1, SF3 and HF(?) sucked or were bad games. Bad compared to what? predecessors of another series maybe, but being that some were the first title in a new series, anyone who said the game sucked upon released would have had to be psychic. You can knock alpha 1 all you want but it introduced alpha counters, which eventually turned into the parry system, amongst other new elements.