1: Is it unsafe to jump in/use the demon flip on a Dictator or Rufus with meter (provided the Dictator has charge)?
2: For small windows of opportunity (blocking one of Ryu’s LP SRKs, or attacking right after anything that pushes you back if blocked), whats the best option for punishing my opponent?
Standing HK -> B&B doesn’t seem to work because you’re too far away for anything past the HK to hit… Akuma dashes like a little old lady, so that doesn’t seem to be quick enough… What should I be doing here?
3: Is there a basic set of criteria for when you do and do not Demon flip/jump attack (including air tatsu), aside from “do it when you can predict a fireball”, and “try it after scoring an untechable knockdown”? I’ve seen them used successfully in other circumstances but I’m having difficulty finding rhyme or reason to it…
You have to be more specific on what scenario you are talking about. It is pretty much never safe to just demon flip since pretty much all characters can stuff it with a jumping normal on reaction (that is your demon flip is executed to reach them.)
I find close standing fierce and low strong to be good ways to start things off. If you are pushed off far enough, and there is enough time, far standing roundhouse is nice as well. Low forward, if you have 2 bars and if your combo techniques are up there. Ryu’s jab shoryu gives you 17 frame advantage on block, so if you reactions are good enough, you can pretty much do anything you want.
It depends on the skill level of you opponent and what character they are using. Block far standing roundhouse leaves you at neutral frame advantage, so it’s a game of rock paper scissors. If your opponent if backing off/ unsure of himself, you can risk it by doing low forward, fireball or low forward demon flip throw. BUT this gets stuffed by shoryu, or anything else that is less that 5 frame start up, which is a lot, so if repeated, you are probably gonna get punished. I think at a higher level, block roundhouse = gtfo =(.
Demon flip at the end of block string can result in throws if unexpected (and cross up dive kick in corners I guess), just don’t do it too often or you will be shoryued. A lot of these things really depends on who you are playing, a lot of what I said are gambles, which should be avoided when playing it safe. But as long as you keep mixing things up, I think even the better players would fall for a demon flip shenanigan or two.
Try looking in the Akuma Secrets thread towards the end at the information abotu two dashes to Demon Flip after a forward throw. That’s a good way to start using Demon Flip with relative safety. Generally; you are less vulnerable to Shoryuken reversals with a Demon Flip Dive Kick on wake-up if you are coming down right on top of their head, as while SRK has invincibility, most don’t hit so vertically and will be active in front of them; making them whiff/lose if you’re attacking behind the active area. Takes experience to get the best feeling for these things.
^ In the video in which this was “discovered” it was also shown that that safety is largely an illusion against Ryu (at least, against his HP SRK). Thanks though.
@ the other guy: I was referring to hk -> jab -> B&B not working against a blocked Ryu LP. SRK.
I need halp. I’m re posting this from the XBL training thread.
ABoffman (Akuma) V. Karisan (Ryu)
Thanks to our most recent matches I’ve found some small glaring flaws in my Akuma game. Ryu has always been my toughest match ever since I started playing akuma a month and a half ago. I’m just going to list the things that I had trouble with.
I’m too scared to jump in since his FB’s recover so fast. One wrong guess on whether he’s going to throw and fb or not and I’m eating a hp shoryuken, assuming he doesn’t have an Ex Fire ball or stocked ultra, which in either case I’m eating one or the other.
I’m getting out footsied. This is my fault, I just haven’t worked on footies enough to be good at them.
I’m far too focus happy. Although I was able to bait a few jump in throws and I would back dash sweep. My focus was getting beat out by cr. mk xx hado a lot and just plain ex fb.
I’m way too predictable with my demon flips, I need to work them in less and more ambiguously.
I’m attempting cross ups and getting thrown as soon as I land, am I just jumping too late and he’s able to move just enough to dodge the cross up and throw?
-Same problem above with cross up tatsus. I’m also getting lp shoryuken’d out of them and eating an ultra for it. Is my tatsu timing/spacing off?
Whew, that’s a lot of shit I have to improve on. If anyone including Karisan could help me out on any of these points, that would be great.
Anyways, I know you don’t actually play Ryu as a main and I’m in no position to give Ryu advice, so I’ll spare you the time and just not write anything.
Use record and playback in training to help yourself with this.
Do an ordinary deepish jump-in attack right into the SRK sweet spot and see yourself beat. Set yourself in that same jump-in postion and this time go for a HK Tatsu at about the peak of your jump. (perhaps just a frame or two on the descending side, but the peak should be alright)
This should see the Tatsu fly beyond their sweet spot to hit behind them as they go up. (or they’ll fly off with EX SRK or something) Sometimes reversal timing on their SRK will give them an auto-correct to beat this out. If this is happening, you want to just switch up your timing on the jump ever so slightly so that the reversal doesn’t do the work for them.
After landing a cross tatsu, reset them with the Sweep. Now take a small step in after the sweep just before you make your follow-up jump. Tatsu around the peak again and repeat this on a loop until you are fully comfortable with the lining.
The small step after the sweep gives you both the ideal lining and timing for a cross tatsu. Reversal Shoryu’s should lose. If an auto corrected Shoryuken is able to stuff you, go back and re-record because the timing is off; it means you are jumping too early and that step-in before the jump may be too small.
You want it so that the reversal window is coming earlier and reversal Shoryu’s will whiff under you as you’re still in the air so you can then hit them in the back on their way up.
(remember that the step-in can generally be done how you like as when you’re going for a cross tatsu from a sweep in footsies, you’ll need to step in at a variable amount for the right lining based on which range you swept them at. This factor should keep your timing inconsistent for them to warm to, while consistent for you to do correctly)
Hopefully this advice should prevent certain users crying about how their local Ryu’s are ‘magic’ with their Shoryu timing for auto-corrects with flawless consistency.
Generally, just use more of record and playback to test the solidity of your options. Don’t go for Demon Flips that the opponent can just Shoryuken with loose timing at half a thought. Check out different setups and timings to make things more difficult or complicated for them.
Generally you’re saying to us in writing that some of your basics aren’t good enough to beat this Ryu, so you’ll know what you need to practice.
anyone got any advice for this - i mained ryu since the game came out and i’m making the switch to akuma, been enjoying it for the most part but i have real trouble playing against a friend of mine.
his mains are boxer and dictator, he is pretty good with his combos but he tends to get close, or wait till i get close and block low, and then hold db and fish for a crack in my block strings by spamming jabs/shorts depending on character. i’ve noticed that he does this with any character now though!
obviously as soon as he gets a jab through with rog it can be jab jab short headbutt ultra, with bison it can be short short scissors. he also sometimes does one scissors after the other which i have trouble combatting.
any suggestions in general? i’ve tried using frame traps with c.mp and had some success, and i’ve tried spacing a bit better and using c.mk xx hado, even desperately mashed out some shoryus as soon as he breaks my string but he never stops using this technique and he gets away with it all the time! in general i feel like i should be able to beat him because i’ve beaten a ton of other folk with more advanced combos and tactics on championship matches, but this simple technique just seems to wear me down. it can get really frustrating after a few games with him
i guess for the most part i should be trying to slow the match down and using well spaced c.mk hados and frame traps among other tools… i guess maybe if he’s stuck on playing like this it means i need to take the game to his pace and punish him, but i was wondering if anyone could suggest any other tips/tricks for dealing with this. it just gets frustrating playing slow all the time against someone, sometimes you just want to deal some damage and get the round over with!
^ This brings up something I was wondering about- do the good players generally do c.MK -> Gohadou (withoug FADCing into B&B) or do they generally go for a straight c.HK -> Vortex?
Okay, i’m not sure if anybody already covered this here but:
Q: How do you handle with Tiger Knees ? What are the best options considering all the ranges that a Tiger Knee is possible. I know that sometimes you can duck under it with a cr.mk or cr.lk and then throw or go for a cr.lp and bnb but sometimes you just eat the Knee. I also know that you can punish with a buffered ultra from cr.mk but, even with some knowledge i tend to eat a LOT of tiger knees in a sagat match so i’m im the need for some anti-knee strategies.
^cMK ducks them then I usually do a forward throw for some double dash goodness. Or demon like you said. Also backdash works pretty good against TK frame traps or just teleport the fuck away.
What do you do against Ryu in general, and also at full screen? He can tatsu straight across the screen to punish shakus and (I think) HP fireballs… and that makes me very, very sad inside.
Neutral jump balls and also switch up how you nullify them with your own. Throw him off by using hp red balls (that gobble up three fireball hits) and lp red balls (that only eat one). This ushers in unpredictability to your fireball game which can make Ryu players behave a little differently.
You can achieve the same with ex balls, but those are obvious when they come out and everyone knows to expect two hits. The variance from red balls depending on punch used however can be visually ambiguous which works in our favour. I find this particularly useful against Sagat.
Anyway, he’ll perhaps try jumping after throwing a fireball expecting to clear the remaining two hits on a mis-read red ball when you used the jab version for example. You gain an advantage here as your recovery is faster with the jab version so maybe you follow up with a hp version which can catch him if he jumps forward and so on. Mix it up. If I’m feeling ballsy I’ll sometimes kick teleport forward THROUGH his fireballs and see what my options are. Remember you can focus dash through balls too and sneak in a sweep if well spaced. hk tatsu will also net you a knock-down if you’re properly positioned.
The point is that you don’t always need to jump in to wade through Ryu’s sea of fireballs.
Also, if you begin to identify a pattern, remember your EX demon flip will quickly deliver you right to his face - just don’t get predictable with demon flips like I often am
Its argued that Ryu wins the footsie game with us largely due to the insane reach of his c.mk and the ability to tack a fast fireball on the end for good damage. That said, I snag damage often with c.mp and c.hk. c.mk I find a bit fickle as the range is quite poor compared with Ryu’s but I still use it if I’m in close. Know your spacing and normal reach.
Not too much to say here - it sounds like you understand where focus is and isn’t working for you. I tend to mix my focus use up against Ryu so I’m not predictable. Avoid excessive use of focus as his tatsu will sail through and smash you. EX balls can also reactively be throw out which due to their speed AND the fact that they hit twice make them excellent focus smashers for Ryu.
Me too. Solution? Don’t use them for a few matches at a time and then suddenly bust 'em out. I’m trying to leave them hidden in my bag of tricks almost to the point where my opponent assumes I just plain don’t use them - or they forget about flip entirely. Then I’ll start using them. Problem is when I’m not MINDFUL of withholding my flip habit, I’m predictable as all hell with them and use them ALL THE TIME. I’m slowly weaning myself off them and I notice I’m not taking damage in as many dumb places had I been using flip like Rosie O’Donnell does donuts. Try and hold off using them as best you can - consider a player like Momochi. In many high level games he very rarely uses flip. I’m finding that avoiding my flip reliance helps improve my versatility in other areas which is a nice bonus.
Sounds like your spacing needs work. This comes with practice and experience to the point where you just ‘know’ the distance to begin crossing up. You also need to ensure your jump in timing for cross-ups is placed so that he is quite literally FORCED to block as he gets up. Practice against fast and delayed wake-up dummies. Also practice with a friend so you can deal with a moving target and also the potential for a reversal now and then. Remember that an opponent will not always fall exactly where you want them so you’ll need to learn how to judge distance accurately so you can properly place your cross-up in addition to factoring in quick get ups and non-techable knockdowns. These aspects impact the required timing.
Sounds like it. Cross-up tatsu is tricky to get nailed. Again, practice and experience. Keep at it. Start with larger characters (Gief, Sagat) to get a feel for it and then work towards smaller characters (Ryu, Cammy, Sakura, etc) to refine your execution. This took me a while to get right but I’m pretty confident with it now. I still fluff it sometimes though and eat big damage but I think the pay-off I’ve gained from it since I implemented it (heavily) into my game has really helped.
I hope this helps! I’m still somewhat new to Akuma myself though the past couple weeks has seen me nail a few goals I had for this character which I feel only really comes about by applying techniques and approaches in real matches against real players. THATS when all the stuff you practice in training mode, see on YouTube and read in forums really begins to click.
(at least, against his HP SRK). Thanks though.
