Seth has more options than any character but none of it is safe. He’s an all in type of character and he has to take risks in the MU.
Considering that it’s never his match to lose as long as Gouken has meter.
Any Ultra landed puts Seth at risk to be stunned or ko’d if he does the wrong thing on wake. Gouken only needs to land 2 hard palm combos and it’s over.
It’s not free bc when Gouken gets meter Seth has to change his strategy. He also has to take risks to get in and bc Seth’s walk speed is poor you just have to determine if he’s going to dash/focus in or jump in. Other than that the Seth player will be full screen either booming/hp trap or booming/wall jump trap.
if Gouken can win in any 2 of these categories he wins.
-Out zone him
-Pressure his wake
-Guessing Out of his Vortex
If Seth can do 2 of the following he wins
-Get in with minimal damage
-Stay on Offense/stay in
-Don’t give up big damage. Whiffing dp/spd/mis-timed legs (if he messes up twice it could be a wrap).
I actually switched to him post-ultra because he seemed really solid and really fun to play now. He’s not top-tier good, but he’s definitely not obsolete.
I haven’t bothered learning any setups yet though, I guess I should do that at some point.
(also, to the bolded out part: Cammy doesn’t have an overhead, much less an unreactable one D: )
Would you guys trade Gouken’s current EX fireball for one that hits only horizontally but has 2 hits to break focus? I’m starting to feel the focus attack is one of his biggest weaknesses.
OH GOD YES IT WOULD BE THE BEST
Seriously, if he had that he would probably have the best zoning in the game, period(and he’s already up there). His problems with dealing with focusing right outside of c.MP range is his biggest weakness. Having a 2-hit EX would remove that problem completely.
Honestly, I think it would be more realistic to have his EX be like Deejays EX slash in that he fires two of them in a row. He’d be more vulnerable to jump-ins compared to just having a single 2-hit fireball, but considering how risky it is to jump in on a Gouken with an EX bar in the first place, I could probably live with that.
And besides, what good is the current EX fireball, really? Killing people who would otherwise die from chip?
locks down the vertical and diagonal lanes///no one gets thru. Go EX fireball!
as soon as he lets go of and hadouken as was mentioned throw our a normal he has a lot of range on most normal and they work well at producing results.
I find that parry works until the opponent is smart enough to start empty jumping. At that point, you forced them to start mixing you up instead of forcing them to stop jumping so you can be at a loss there.
I would put money on cl.HK, but only when you can begin to tell when you can and cannot pull it off.
In a situation where they score a knockdown and they’re jumping in, pay very close attention to when they time their jump. If they know what they’re doing, and you should be playing people who do, cl.HK won’t work because they would’ve landed on you with an attack before you could start your attack. Parry works in this situation though. But like I said before, use it sparingly or else you’re going to make your opponent smarter.
In a situation where they try to put pressure on you up close and try to jump over you, you can react to it with a cl.HK by the time they’re over your head, or if they’re telegraphing that jump easily, you can catch them in the earlier frames before they jump over you. Alternative things you can do if you’re seeing those jumps in time is to air-to-air like risemix mentioned. UB + mp/hp/hk all work just fine. I would do hp over HK just because it starts up faster, but if I want the quickest startup, I do mp just because the two hits lands a knockdown you can follow up with. This is situational based on what you want to do against the opponent you’re facing. Sometimes, you want the knockdown from HK, sometimes you don’t and opt with hp. You can explore that bit yourself.
consider all that and some of this also…no jump in setup is perfect, unless it is a perfect setup …that being said dj mp , dj lp , dj hp, and some times nj hk, and cr lk, cr mp, and low kongo all create enough hit box wiggle to go under crossup attempts to the empty side, often its also useful in cornered situations, but all paths are character specific. Most useful of the above listed would be forward jump mp and forward jump hp towards the attack!
If they are right on top of you and you decide not to block, try looking for a trade for a good distanced reset.
From what I tested, the best options are between you cited are: Parry and Focus Dash if the opponent try it after a knockdown. The others have a chance to be hit, thus causing trade for this situation. The other options are much more viable if it is not after a knockdown if i have enough reaction.
You just prove my main problem:
Cross-up after the knockdown
I tested it and from what I saw (as mentioned in the previous post), the best option would be to parry or focus dash. And for situations of block-string and then cross-up, I think the best option would be dj.mp because it puts my opponent in a situation where I can start doing zoning again or (depending on the character) starts-up pressuring again with demon flip.
To try to pass beneath the cross-up, I realized that cr.lk is perfect if properly calculated, allowing a throw afterwards.
And which attack I could use to cause trade, takinflight ?
Thank you all for your help, and I have one more question: I tested the focus dash using it to evade the attack (depending on the position of my opponent, or dash forward or back dash) and it worked well. But I wanted to know if I focus dash toward the opponent, can i throw him? Or he could end up getting ahead and mash jab?
cr. mp xx lk demon flip: if they have a non walking forward focus and they tried to do a focus in between cr. mp and fb, they will eat 400 damage.
cr. lk xx ex tatsu
cr. mp two times
dash forward throw
firing jabs
the demon flip exit is actually very discouraging for most players.
An Ibuki can usually backdash after absorbing a jump-in because she does a hop which can avoid low pokes. We aren’t as acrobatic unfortunately. Again, I’d rely on mp/hp parry sparingly. Block until you’ve conditioned them into thinking they’re safe with a jump-in. I’d save these moments for when you can follow up with FADC ultras.
I would be wary of doing demon flip after landing a ub + mp. An alert opponent will have more than enough time to respond to that flip. I picked up a silly habit of jumping back and doing the flip afterward like it’s a natural proceeding move and people respond to this so easily.
hey gouken players, i am somewhat new to Gouken, would anyone care to help me with leveling up my gouken on XBL? i feel like i know the character very well but i just struggle with being pressured as gouken. i do decent against good players but im just not sure how to deal with the more random/mashy/jump happy/bad players. sounds backwards i know. haha
but i would love to get just some general tips. i see what other great goukens are doing but i cant seem to apply it to myself.
i am an Adon main but Gouken is such a cool character i want to make him a good alt for me.
Gouken doesn’t have a dp or command grab and he’s free to grab if he doesn’t have meter. The only way to deal with it is so just block and tech effectively and make good reads with EX Tatsu, Kongo, and back dash. Keeping yourself out of certain situations is usually the best defense.
There are ways to deal with mashers though, by either baiting, stuffing, or making their reversal whiff so you can punish them. I would suggest spending more time with this since it can keep you on offense some rather than someone just focusing through your zoning and putting you on defense.
Gouken just has below average up close defense period, and it’s poor without meter. That’s just life with Gouken.
An Adon player looking for help playing Gouken? You have to work hard for your wins and need 3 bars to escape pressure. You don’t have an ex armor breaking overhead. St.hk won’t break someone’s armor unless you’re really really close. Combos come from heavy and medium buttons. Crlk and crlp are for spacing most of the time, not to start up an offense. If you’re getting pressured by Adon, don’t crouch tech…or do…or don’t. Fuck it, just guess ex tatsu.
So, what do I do against Guy? I played a couple decent ones in endless earlier today and got completely wrecked. My anti-airs kept failing, he had zero issues with just walking straight into focus attack range, EX Run to armor through fireballs worked nicely, and I couldn’t quite figure out what buttons to use. Once he got in I just died.
I guess abandoning zoning and going for his throat is my best shot?
