try iat…the weird part is in training mode, youll have to set it up oh so perfect…
.i havent dobe it but wit all my iat work in lab lately i see its possible…like setup ur dummy aboyt 2/3 scren away and no charge denjin if u want to drown em with two, meaaaaty frontside hits, ex or iat placement is key. or semwi charged with iat hitting frontside and denjin hitting behind…
plus it doesnt have a vid so maybe he speculated…idk
I think what Goo is saying, and I stress i think, is that the Denjin hitbox is so big, that it can hit backside.
I only used the Seth example to show that you have to block where the person is, not where the attack is coming from.
If Gouken could throw fireballs behind him and have them appear behind the player, you’d still need to block “away” from Gouken, regardless of where that fireball is coming from.
Plus, why in the world would you throw an Ultra on someones wake up? I can just see someone using one of a million fireball invincible moves to laugh in your face.
That makes a lot more sense.
Works on people who got no EX 
It also stuffs most attempts at jumps or invincible moves if you time it to hit them after their invincibility frames are gone or during pre-jump frames, which ever the case is.
For a chip out its good, I do it all the time. But I dont think it can hit backside at all unless you could somehow teleport behind like Reipin is saying. I’ve done it to where I let go of the Denjin slightly early and like the last two hits of Denin scraped the opponents back on their wake and it just got blocked by holding back. I highly doubt it can cross up and I have no idea what Gootecks is talking about.
Good. It seems the general consensus is that Gootecks was high when he was writing that. Now I don’t have to go spend 40 minutes testing that out myself lol
So why did Capcom see fit to make air throws unbeatable and give them to only a few characters? That shit is so annoying. You literally can’t jump at some characters if they have one. (Guile…Cammys too if they weren’t so concerned with doing their leet combos.)
Idk, I can understand giving air throws to characters with a lackluster toolset, say Vega. But to giving one to someone like Cammy is beyond me.
Just like how I don’t get why they gave command throws to Fei and the twins. It just makes no sense. They’re already strong.
Incorrect mindset. You’re saying the programmers intentionally gave them all those tools on top of their game. That’s not true. Cammy and Fei both had their respective throws back in Vanilla and they weren’t even considered good characters at the time. Fei and Cammy later got buffs which only then has their game improved to what it is now. Their throws weren’t part of the buff, it’s just that more people happen to use these characters (through video exposure) and only recently have explored the potential of these throws being implemented into their game.
For example, Jab > Tenshin wasn’t a new trick or buff. It was in existence in Vanilla. Little to no one thought of doing it is all. It coincidentally became a popular trick when more Fei players came around, passing it around for others to pick up.
But surely someone at Capcpom has to realize what they are doing when they give characters the things they have. An untechable, 3-4 frame air throw in a game where not every character has access to it is still enough to make me irate at some of the decisions made. That’s a strong tool regardless of any buffs those characters may have gotten. A lot of the time, the characters that have the air throw have an above average ground game to go with it.
Exactly Politank. Doesn’t matter if the programmers didn’t know originally. No character with a sound dp should have a command throw point blank period. Yun should not have a command throw, Yang should not have a command throw, Fei should not have a command throw. Cammy should not have an air throw. Yes, they turned into strong characters over the iterations but when you sit back and look at Cammy’s toolset, she should not have an air thow. Vega has a lackluster toolset so having an air throw is understandable. You’re looking at it as, Cammy wasn’t competitive back in Vanilla so her having an air throw is ok…she JUST NOW got strong. And I understand where you’re coming from and that logic but no. When you’re developing and/or changing these characters they’re supposed to be looking at the all around toolset and adding/taking away things based off of that.
But in their defense they were trying to be true to the original game so alot of characters got those types of things. But when characters start to get buffed someone at Capcom or anywhere needs to sit back and say “Ok, we’re giving him/her this, this is gonna make her really strong in this dept…we should take this other thing away”. They attempt it SOMETIMES but they need to do it more than they do.
Well they probably overlooked it… it’s possible they slacked off… I would think that anyway since people gave more shits about her cannon strikes than anything else. I’m not taking a defensive position, I’m merely suggesting possible situations rather than jumping on whatever you can hate someone for (most easiest thing to do).
Cammy and Vega having an air throw to me constitutes to their character having the physical capability of doing it; one who has military training and can throw you in air with hooligan, and the other who has incredible air maneuverability.
Gouken deserves a command grab or air throw far more than any of those characters, even Vega. I’d prefer the command grab, one that’s works similarly to Makoto where you can combo into knockdown.
Dek is right and it’s something I’ve vented about before. High speed, high pressure characters don’t deserve any special throws.
I don’t even care much for characters having certain tools, the game should just be balanced in a way that everyone has a sound reversal and ways to counter attack. Alot of people say they don’t want Gouken to have a dp type move, but how the hell else is he supposed to get people off of him. And I’m talking about simply just throwing his ass when he doesn’t have meter.
I feel 100% that Gouken only needs (and really in fact literally NEEDS) EX Kongo to not be affected by armor breakers.
I’m giving up G-Man and consequently SF4 if EX Tatsu turns into a Shoryuken. Then I am out of the part-ay…
As for “non grapplers” having command throws, it could be worthwhile to remember that those characters have it in their play style, and it’s not something popping out at random.
Or to put it differently, those characters aren’t zoners.
Gouken, Ryu, Ken, etc have fireballs and could in theory win the game by staying away and only throwing fireballs.
Yang and Makoto have to approach you in order to do damage, and these two for instance are granted command throws because of that.
But this has nothing to do with balance. It’s related to character design.
Gouken Makoto I would say is balanced, because she doesn’t have a ground move to get past fireballs.
The characters who do - Guy in particular, and say Blanka because of his “slide sweep”, considerably weakens Gouken’s zoning strength.
Makoto doesn’t, and Yang has such sweet low health, and you can always juggle him and Yun with HK Tatsu after EX Palm - plus, back throw U1 does delightful damage.
Sakura poses a bad threat, because her jump in’s could lead you to miss an ANTI-AIR EX Tatsu , because of how drastically her jump trajectory changes when she jumps with her hurricane kick.
So she can make you miss your anti-airs, FADC past your fireballs on the ground and otherwise just threaten with her EX Hurricane and even EX SRK, and when she moves in on you she can armor break your Kongo (or bait the EX Tatsu).
EX Kongo does nothing to stop throw pressure which is Gouken’s biggest weakness IMO. A good player that excels at mixing up grabs with safe/invincible and cancel-able/armor breaking moves …big problems for Gouken. You can’t guess between 5-6 options correctly on every wake up. It’s not rock paper scissors for Gouken; it’s rock, paper, scissors, paintbrush, toilet paper, banana peels…
The designers really dropped the ball with zoners (no kidding, huh) because every non grappler that has a command grab has a pretty damn easy time getting near you and staying near you…
^ ex-fucking-actly.
Lk, mk, hk tatsu should be throw invincible AND hit low.
Ex tatsu should be as it is now And hit low.
DPs are like an offensive get-off-me tool.
Kongo is like a defensive get-off-me tool. i.e. can be mashed while holding in the direction of blocking.
Also, “alot” ain’t a word.
AOS…you’re poking a bear with a sharp stick. Do you really think you need to tell people here what the difference between a dp and a kongo is? Like, just in case you didn’t know, most dps have invincibility to strikes and throws. Did I need to tell you that?
Also, ain’t isn’t a word.
<—Gets popcorn
<— hops on stage.
You have 3 counter measures against throws: back dash, jump, throw tech.
You find these 3 insufficient, and what you instead find sufficient, is a DP - a special move that beats everything. That’s what you said you need… Something that beats everything.
I don’t mean disrespect, but… here’s something for ya popcorn
He’s probably related to that idiot on nat geo that convinced himself he could live with the bears, sadly enough he eventually became lunch.