Dive kick forces stand so you can hit confirm off of that with cl. st. mp to whatever you want. The easiest one to use if you want to push them back is dive kick > cl. st. mp > cr. lp > tatsu… you 3 chances to hit confirm that one. But the scaling is ASS, if i right on the numbers dive kick and cl st. mp (100% dmg) cr. lp (80% damage) tatsu (70% dmg) FADC Ultra (50% dmg) and if you Dave Denjin and opt to juggle them with lvl 1 FA, you lose even more damage.
I just seems like a waste of meter to do all that, when you can just hit confirm into EX Palm and get similar damage and a set up. While keeping an EX Bar and Ultra.
Gouken shouldn’t be doing FADC Ultra on the end of long combos, unless he’s just trying to show off of it kills them.
About the only time you can’t do more with less is when you try to AA with a lk tatsu and get a trade.
Almost any combo you can do with FADC tatsu into Ultra 1 (full guage mind you) will net you similiar damage to something as simple as EX palm into HK tatsu. It’s a side effect of having such great damage.
Hahaha I see alot of Goukens do that for some reason too. TBH I dont even know what for. I think they’re trying to catch a jump but know they’re unsafe on land so throw tech. But backthrow has a delayed tech window so always end up getting a backthrow, which in turn leads to ultra I suppose.
Has anybody experimented with OS after ex flip escape? I’m looking for my opponents patterns and using a calculated response such as low kongo for crouching attacks or ex tatsu for throw/techs. It’s starting to worm into my game and it’s been somewhat effective…I’d like it to be more effective. I still have the horrible habit of trying to neutral jump when I know I’m unsafe which only works on weak players.
EX Flip escape is a good option to avoid command grabs, FADC attempts, chip outs, and opponents who like to OS… b/c you EX Flip and their OS comes out so you can punish it. But it’s risky as hell. If you have EX, you are better of trying to crouch tech and OS Kongo.
Most characters can cr. lp when you do EX Flip and hit you right out of it and reset you for the cost of 1 bar, or just walk under you and blow you up…
You should be able to OS when the flip is active, business as usual… but there is a bunch of random factors that don’t come with a hard knock down, that takes the safe aspects away from it.
EX Flip escape seems to whiff A LOT if they are pressing up against you as well…
Life would be alot easier if you couldn’t throw him out of tatsu and HP/EX Palm. #justsaying
EX Flip on our wake-up from the corner may get us knocked down again, but at least it gets us out of the corner.
Parry from the EX Flip can deflect crouching jab* mashing and land you safely. However, a calm and clean sweep will always catch us - but at least it gets us out of the corner.
If you escape with EX Flip [to dive kick], only to be swept off your feet and knocked down, you can try letting Gouken just do his slide kick instead.
So why does the majority of the roster have a wake up move that beats throws? Nobody is saying he needs s DP as you can still HIT him out of it… but without meter Gouken has 0 moves that beat throw and with meter only EX Flip which is risky and EX Tatsu which is max punishable.
However you have other characters that can beat throw AND hit without meter, or they can EX on wake up into something safe that beats throw and hit. Gouken can’t do that… but giving him a move thats throw invincible but max punishable on block breaks him??? lmao…
now i do think EX palm could be a bit strong being throw invincible… But as for the others…
Who knows, man. Once a new buff gets exposed on day one, everyone switches to it and then everyone starts complaining right after. Remember when Super came out and Daigo did some exhibition match with Guile and everyone was head over heels because his recovery on Sonic Boom had dropped exponentially since Vanilla? Same went for Cammy’s TKCS.
I went off on a bit of a tangent, but that’s essentially what could potentially happen if the move was seen as too good. But after thinking about it, like DP, a palm is punishable on block, even if it became throw-invincible so it can’t be too too bad.
Yeah, think Guile was a top character in super bc of his damage output along with the zoning crap he had. Shit Irrc charge characters were very strong overall in super.
I think any buff in the wrong direction will break him for sure, but I’m pretty sure they will make him a bit more solid.
Um, Tatsu would still be hittable and would still whiff on a crouch, it would be risky as hell to use if you were predicting a throw. A safer bet is cr.tech or stand tech. I honestly can’t think of a good reason to use a non-throwable tatsu on wakeup given the risk vs reward involved in such a choice.
As for Guile, sonic booms, and SSF4, his recovery didn’t change exponentially. They reduced the charge time needed for his sonic booms. He had to charge for a shorter amount of time before throwing a boom.
It would be like using Abel’s tornado throw on wakeup only with a crap ton worse start up so even poorly timed normals are going to beat you.
Reipin, the focus was on what OS options were viable after an ex flip escape attempt from, say, the corner. The options I’m coming up with are very player dependent and therefore very risky in general. With the standard 4 frame recovery time, there should be something better than tech…Gouken is a dead man in the corner vs some characters.
I’m not even sure what you are looking for. If you don’t get hit out of your flip and your flip attack misses, the option selects available to you are no different than if you had empty jumped or were already standing next to them.
Well lp has terrible hit stun. I got it from Ryu’s. Ryu’s when they have you cornered will do dj.lp, ex hado. If they counterhit you with it they can link ultra 1 and 2 OR 3 more ex hado’s. Applying that to Gouken, I didnt wanna do hado because it doesnt benefit us. So I came up with doing a normal for counterhit purposes. I do dj or nj lp; I went through or normals and tried to find a normal that was slow enough to counterhit and came up with cl.st.hp which has 8 frames of startup. Its almost perfect.
Cl.st.hp hits HARD and is +4 on reg hit but +7 on counterhit after doing testing. So you can do cl.st.hp hado fadc into pain train if standing or crouching. You can link super which is roughly 470 damage. If you dont have bars and they’re crouching midscreen you can only link sweep. But if they’re standing you can actually link cr.hp into mp palm. Dj lp, cl.st.hp (if ch and standing), cr.hp, hado fadc or cr.hp mp palm. Ridiculous stun.
I was actually gonna do a vid tonight to show you guys the developments. I just dont know how to put words in videos and shit lol. But I’ll figure it out and do another vid like the last counterhit one I did for cr.hp.
For you in particular Sun, its +7 so to link that super you have forever. You can do it visually and dont have to cancel. If you mix it up with dj.lp, throw its pretty deadly.
