it works well against Honda’s butt-slam too 
If they like to cross up a lot, you can stuff their attempts if you read right. If you try to react to the cross up, you will probably whiff the wrong way if you don’t wait to turn around. You can also anticipate it and stop them before they can get over and behind you. It can shut down half of flowchart Blanka’s game plan.
Two questions:
- how do you beat standing tech after close cr.lp?
- what are the follow ups after DF throw that don’t involve demon flip?
What is a standing tech? If you stand and push lp+lk+anything doesn’t it do a throw animation?
The only two follow ups I do after a demon flip throw are cross up jumping mk or walk back a bit then dash in for a throw. There isn’t much you can do afterwards in terms of safe pressure. Even the dj.mk can be autocrrect reversaled.
Yeah, it does. but it’s somewhat of an option select. Here’s why:
say, you df kick, cr. lp. then:
- you do anything that isn’t a true block string(cr. mp, cr. mk, cr.hk…). the enemy does b+lp+lk . he will grab you out of your poke.
- you do your block string. the enemy does b+lp+lk .he will block it.
- you grab him. the enemy does b+lp+lk. he will tech,
so I guess you have to put yourself at risk and do something on his wake up from standing? anyone has other ideas?
That’s not really an option select. You can push forward and lp+lk and all of the above will still take place. An airtight block string will keep you blocking no matter what, the only thing you can do is stand or crouch but you will remain in blockstun and blocking in airtight strings.
cr.lp gives you 0 frame advantage on block and also leaves you super close to the opponent (not much pushback). This is why you get thrown when they are standing and you do anything else. You are within throw range and an attack will lose to a throw on the same frame. That means, even if you are frame perfect, and within range to use cl.st.mk (3 frames) you will still get thrown.
Basically what you want to do is cl.st.mp, not cr.lp after a blocked dive kick. It leaves you at +4 frames and outside of their throw range on block.
What does that mean to you? It means that if you are frame perfect, and they are frame perfect almost everything you do will beat their throw with a counterhit attack. So do the following, flip dive kick, cl.st.mp you are now at a 4 frame advantage which means you can act 4 frames before he can.
If he hits b+lp+lk the throw will not be active until the seventh frame after you are able to do something (this might get confusing). So, for all intents and purposes his throw is seven frames.
You can do cr.hp (6 frames, you get counterhit and can combo fireball or palm/ex palm), C.hk ( 6 frames, counterhit for extra damage but no combo),st.mp (5 frames, counterhit- can combo into sweep or mp palm, would need to test fireball or ex palm) or c.mp (5 frames, counterhit, not sure of combo possibilities). This is all cause of the 4 frame advantage. If he does nothing you blockstring out or do a flip off st.mp. Basically if he pushes throw or a normal, you are getting a counterhit.
What if he wises up and stops hitting buttons after cl.st.mp though Reipin!?!?!? Well, that’s where you do a kara neutral throw with st.hk. You are able to throw him from that space with your kara throw if he stops trying to tech. Back throw does not reach though.
EDIT: As far as demon flip throw followup goes, I don’t believe there is a safe followup at all. I mean, maybe you can do a crossup demon flip kick? I’m not sure though. Even sitting back and tossing a fireball is not safe depending who you are fighting. There is no safe jump set up, that’s for sure, not in the traditional sense. Recovery is just too slow.
Theres not much you can do with someone who st techs. Throws have 1 frame on invincibilty and thats why they beat all normals when coming out at the same time. I would just try to neutral jump into pressure if you insist on doing something after jabx1. Personally I would jabx2 or x3 and then do something. It would be stupid to st throw after the two jab push back and people dont do so. They have to cr tech at that point to defend against throws.
After gf throw I normally over head. If they crouch tech, because Gouken lifts his foot up and angles back slightly anything low normally wont touch him. You can dash in! theres tons of caveats to that. Dash in, backdash, dash in nj, dash in frametrap, dash in ex flip. You could also do another gf throw which I find myself doing alot. People normally get caught standing on the first one. When they see you flip again they think that they can simply duck it this time (Mutombo finger wave)
Throws don’t have any invincibility, they just have priority over an attack when they both become active on the same frame (and your throwable box overlaps with their throw box).
You cannot use the first frame of a throw to avoid an active frame of an attack. i.e. if a purely invincible attack with 1 active frame meets up with someone on the first active frame of their throw, the thrower is going to get hit, it will not mutually whiff with neither party taking damage.
That’s not true. I wanna be super close to him. you know why? cr. lp into gouken’s backthrow is a true frametrap. yes. a true frame trap. it beats every normal ANY opponent can throw from crouching, including crouch tech.
The only way to beat it is by doing a stand tech. which brings us to my question.
No, technically a frame trap involves people pushing buttons so you get counter hits. What is a frame trap? You get the counter hit off of them trying to crouch tech.
c.lp is 0 frames on block, back throw is 5 frame start up. Cody doing a crouch tech is just going to kick you in the shin with his 3 frame c.lk while your 5 frame backthrow is starting up. The reason backthrow is hard to crouch tech is because you only get the tech on the frame you push the buttons. Every throw in the game, save Gouken back throw, is 3 frames, so people are used to teching 3 frame throws. They crouch tech as if it was 3 frames and they miss the tech window cause the throw hasn’t even entered active frames yet.
Standing tech has more active frames because the opponent is actually throwing. As a matter of fact, when you go for backthrow after c.lp he isn’t teching backthrow, you are teching his throw.
You are wrong. Cody is actually my default test dummy. I guarantee it works.
It actually interrupts his cr. lk. you can see it coming out and getting beat.
I can record a video.
I honestly can’t fully explain why. theoretically, it should work as you said, but my testing with both practice dummy and real players proves me right.
I’ll test it when I get home tonight. If you are both frame perfect he should be beating you by two frames. He literally kicks you before your throw box comes out.
believe me, he can beat every single other move except for forward and back throw.
I tested it and it’s pretty awesome. you’ll like it. that’s why I need to beat stand tech and then I have a 50/50 mix up
You beat stand tech with an Ultra 1 in the face or an EX tatsu. Anything that Gouken does with no throw invincibility will lose to a throw if everything is frame perfect.
After a c.lp you are both dead even on frame advantage. Throws beat attacks if the first active frames happen at the same time. That means that after a c.lp your only options are to tech his throw, do something with invincibility to throws, or air-tight block string him out of throw range. You can’t beat a standing throw after c.lp if you are in throw range without throw invincibility. You would need a two frame normal.
Thats because Goukens throw doesnt have 5 frames of startup, it has 3 like everyone else. It just has 5 frames total instead of 3 like everyone elses which you have to tech on frames 3-5 instead of 1-3, again, like everyone elses.
Back throw doesn’t have 5 frames start up? That would be news to me. Time to dig…
last post -> How to defend against throws?
Anyone able to test on the PC version?
Double EDIT: Anyone have the hitbox videos from super? You can go through those frame by frame by pausing and using the arrow keys. Is backthrow in that thing?
despite the frame data.
now here’s where it’s interesting: regular throws get escaped by crouch tech. gouken’s back throw doesn’t.
KEEP IT ON THE LOW TIL 2014!!!
^ sounds strange! maybe something with hurtboxes?
Well no, lol, you can cr tech his backthrow but has to be done SUPER late…and I mean super. Cr techs are already dont late and on the latter frames. Goukens backthrow, when active, has 2 extra frames to tech so you have to cr tech even later. If you cr tech Goukens backthrow like a normal throw, you’re getting thrown because thats Goukens st throw tech window. You have to do it even later. But people arent used to it because NO ONE else in the game has this quirk. But we’re the only ones that can backthrow into damage or Ultra so its there for a reason. Longer tech time visually, but an off window for people who are used to teching reg throws, which is everyone.
Its easiest to just mash throw so you dont get thrown lol. I tell people that all the time.