If the first st.mp connects(block or hit), considering it was cl.st.mp , the next will connect as well in most cases, so that can’t be backdashed. Follow with a fireball and you have a pretty safe backdash proof string…but you can still be reversaled by some characters through the fireball. If you are getting backdashed a lot, try out a mp.palm after the first/second mp. Not safe if there is no backdash and they were blocking, but that is the story of Gouken…period.
Haha thanks, by all means watch them, unless you prefer not to waste 20 or 30 minutes haha.
But, yeah, thanks. It’s always nice to know they’re appreciated, watched or not 
St. mp is for some reason a bit harder to time as a frame trap. probably because it’s faster and it will then become a block string. maybe I could walk a bit…gotta try more.
Any other ideas?
Also, another question:
breaking focus: someone focuses in front of you, not to close, you have bar:
[LIST]
[*]cr. mp/cr.lk xx ex tatsu always hits: ok.
[/LIST]
someone focuses in front of you, not to close, you have no bar:
[LIST]
[]cr. mp/cr.lk xx any tatsu is too slow if they back dash.
[]cr. mp/cr.lk xx mp/hp facepalm is too slow if they release.
[]cr. mp/cr.lk xx lk/ex demon flip will hit for a full combo if they release, but can be punished if they backdash or dash forward.
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[]cr. mp/cr.lk xx lp facepalm has no range if they backdash, but you’re safe. if they release they get ch, which might lead to an easy fadc denjin? gotta test. (best option)
[/LIST]
What else do you guys have? is there a better option?
I don’t know if it’s better, but consider, poke canceled into a MP.Parry.
If they release it’ll counter, frontdash is unsafe, backdash probably is too, might depend on character.
Just a thought
could be interesting, but if the just hold it a bit further I’m screwed lol.
As Toof suggested, it can work but a lot depends on who is doing the focus. If it’s Oni, for example, and you st.mp > mp.kongo and he keeps charging, you might have enough time to backdash the focus because his focus is pretty shitty. Hakan on the other hand, or Gief, will eat that shit alive. I usually don’t trust my reactions enough to try these scenarios with 8 thousand potentially devastating results. I grab, focus backdash, or jump. U2 works too.
Figured it out!
j.mk, st. mp, lp fireball:
built in frametrap if they try to move into guaranteed sweep, plus frames on block, juggle into mp palm(fadc denjin?) if they backdash AND hit confirmable into combo if they simply eat it all.
The perfect solution!
It seems that alternating between lk back dash or lk lp palm yields good results too.
Gouken is tied for 2nd best forward dash in the game. It’s quick as hell and hard to react to.
Ever tried forward dash throw? Or forward dash late back throw? If someone tries to react and let their focus rip before level three, at least you can block.
This is an item I’ve incorporated into my online play that’s carried over into my offline play, and I can’t remember being punished or crumpled by it. It’s a great tool for people who love to play the focus-approach game. Let me know if you end up trying it. If so, let me know the outcome!
I use that a bit, but my opponents release focus pretty fast, so it’s a hit or miss kinda thing. I’m looking for the perfect solution, but yours is pretty good nevertheless.
Addendum: Where you said lp.Palm FADC could lead into Denjin, this has to be right next to most characters, fast as hell and fully rotated. This also might be specific to characters with medium-sized or larger overall hit boxes; if not with raw lp.Palm FADC --> Denjin, I know for sure it is if you try to 2-in-1 into lp.Palm, FADC --> Denjin because the opponent moves back a bit from being hit by a combo, and the timing/spacing for this is critical unless you have them somewhat in the corner or closer.
I usually crouch short xx lp.Palm, crouch jab xx lp.palm or crouch strong xx lp.Palm as you stated above. If they dash back at least your safe. But most of the time the 2-in-1 cancel is good for a hit because of the hit box range buff he got in 2012. If not, I find a back dash or jump back to be perfect.
It is good, but have you been reversaled through it yet? BTW, if the fireball hits, you can hp super if it will end the match.
Yeah
Yeah and i also blocked reversals after it and killed the morons that were mashing it. They are the same morons that try to reversal between cr mp hadou. I eat those for breakfast.
Apparently Gouken is top tier French players think. Anyway, how does Gouken do against characters like C. Viper, Guile, Gief, Sim? I’m thinking about having him as a secondary, I’m growing tired of Bison. My only gripe with this character is his wake up options, seems like a big guessing game. I need to adapt to his play style anyway, I’m too used to holding back unless I’m messing around with Sakura.
I have problems with Gief and Viper because of their options, less so with Guile and Sim unless the player just outclasses me. That doesn’t mean Gouken can’t handle Gief/Viper and I’m sure other Gouken players fare better than me. Gief in particular can destroy me after one knockdown because…
Gouken’s wake up options really are just a big guessing game, especially against a player you are unfamiliar with…and against command throw characters his best reversal(Kongo) becomes much less useful. A character like Gief can do crossup mixups and you really do just have to guess what he is going to do. If you guess wrong you eat either a lariat or a command grab and are put into the exact same position. I’m sure that Gouken isn’t the only one with this problem but his big hurtbox certainly doesn’t do him any favors and his lack of a low hitting srk type move just sucks…period. This game certainly favors srk characters in many ways and one of them is the 2 bar get out of jail FADC.
However, getting good with Gouken and running a show can be really rewarding. It’s always fun to dominate a room and hear the players with their mics on complain about how you just zone (they call it “running”, I call it outsmarting) or how you just fireball or how your backthrow is cheap or flip grab is overpowered. LOL. If they ever tried to play Gouken like they were using their scrub shit Ken or Blanka or freaking cheap ass Adon, they would die with the quickness and maybe then realize that what they are complaining about is exactly what makes Gouken unique, interesting, and (new word here) funstrating.
i actually have a lot of questions recently that are creating quite a problem… hope someone doesn’t mind answering them
- i learned gouken mostly from watching vids and asking random questions. i’ve always seen bullcat do the demon flip kick -> mp -> cr.hp -> fireball, so i learned to do it too and use it very often… but after thinking about it a little, what’s the point of that? why don’t you just get the hard knock down instead by doing mp into sweep?
- if you were to do the demon flip kick -> mp -> cr.hp -> fireball, is it worth it to fadc sweep or is that just a waste of meter?
- palm fadc denjins at the corners… does it only work for lp palm?
- i don’t understand how denjin works… sometimes after i denjin, i have the ability to palm them, but other times it doesn’t connect. other times, i can jab them as they are falling, and it send them into that flipping state, which can lead to a reset i guess. how does it work though?
- if i ex palm in the corner, hp fireball, hp, then demon flip for a reset, sometimes the flip doesn’t come out. does that mean i’m doing it too quick/slow, or that i’m doing the hp before the flip too quick/slow?
thanks
You pretty much summed it up for me lol. Against Gief I just EX Psycho Crusher for free to get rid of the pressure. Gouken, however has no free escape. That being said, people say Bison always escapes for free which is BS. There are so many characters that can OS punish all his escapes, people just don’t do it. Offensive Goukens can be scary too, every once in a while they’ll be straight up in your face and do a 500 combo on you, then zone it. That used to make me think he was broken back a few years ago, until I noticed his defense isn’t even near as good.
Bison has to block sometimes on certain characters. Boo hoo.
It’s not for free, but its not exactly hard.
Rule of thumb
Vs Bison is rush when he has no meter and zone when he does… Only do cross up when he has meter his wake up options will let him escape but if he does ex stomp just walk back and it will whiff and you combo. Other than that it can be a hard fight.
Vs Gief learn to footsie w st mk. St lk, st rh, and sweeps this is useful when Gief has ex fist stocked. Also use df throws as it will grab lariats once you know the timing… Do it on his wake ups after a while he will have no choice but to back dash or jump… . That changes the game vs Gief…
Boo hoo? You idiot, I was stating that his options are not that good as everyone complains about.
I haven’t seen many good Gouken vs Gief matches, and yeah that ex headstomp is easy to avoid. Teleport can be a free palm too.