I won’t be using Denjin the majority of the time no matter who uses it. Shin sho is still perfect for me.
I’m at around 9K BP I think? I try to play people at the same skill level or higher (in terms of PP).
As for attacking gief on his wakeup, I prefer not to do it with a jump. Lots of other people here seem to do it with some sort of reliability by using throw and stuff but it never works for me. I’ve taken to using our forward dash to attack him on wakeup. I can dash in and throw, dash in and neutral jump, or dash in and then back out if he likes using SPD (which are then punishable) to wake up with once he sees me dashing in for throws and such or just dash in and block if he starts using GH to punish the dash back out.
Ideally I attack him with the dash forward > throw which is he is not expecting. A good player will be looking for it the second time. Figure out if you are playing a good player and act accordingly.
Also, Gief is tall enough that jump back roundhouse will get him if he tries any standing attack on wakeup, including lariats. Dash in > jump back rh can net you a very safe 100 damage.
I’ve recently switched to denjin from shinsho, mostly for reasons to become familiar with its mechanics and as another option to use against other characters where shinsho would not be as advantageous in the matchup. The Ryu matchup is a little more interesting as I’ve been able to blow through their hadouken. It takes a bit of anticipation but it’s caught quite a few opponents off guard and makes them think twice about firing another next round especially when I have denjin ready. Yeah I still love shinsho for its ease of application but the nerf in damage off a backthrow makes comebacks a little harder to achieve. With that said, I’m now trying to find ways to use it straight against whiffs and other unsafe moves my opponent may make.
9K BP with Gouken is exceptionally good. But over 3K on PP is superb. It tells me you have great mechanics and consistency. I play casually and at times I find the occassional player close to or above 4000PP and the result is generally brutal. Most likely, it would end up 8-15 game losing streak before I even won a match! I’ve learned that high caliber players like yourself rarely miss any combination/string or any opportunity to punish. Sometimes, it almost feels like I’m playing defence the entire match because of I’m stuck in this perpetual hitstun. If an offence is mounted, it’s quickly anticipated and snuffed out. I think for me it’s safe to say that I feel more comfortable playing someone around 2000-3500PP. That is tops for me.
Just wondering if you or anyone else here ever felt that way? Totally outdueled and overmatched? Do you continue getting beat badly or do you resign at a certain point? For me, I just continue just to see if I can learn anything from it. Sometimes I’m surprised the opponent at the other end doesn’t get bored and resign. lol
Yeah I thought so. I guess I’m going to really have to practise my crouch tech some more. Tick throws have always bugged me since SF2. Back then, unless it was a tournament, it was deemed a no-no in casual play. At least Capcom created a counter for it. Of course, nowadays, people also don’t give mercy in the 2nd round. Ahh…the good ol’ days. Well, right now, my offence is way ahead of my defence. Do you guys have any tips on how to practise/improve? Outside of inviting a friend try to repeatedly tick throw me in training, is there another method you guys employ? I feel that if I can improve in this area of the game, it would take my game to the next level. It is one area that if my opponent fully exploits, no matter what lead in life I have…things tend to unravel in a hurry. At times my confidence in teching is so low that I’ll end up burning meter on EX.hyakkishuu or EX.tatsu>fadc (if blocked) just to escape.
Just keep practicing it, also make sure when it is you need to be pressing the button. Also note if you see a normal when getting thrown or not(that’s beans you’re too early or they delayed their throw a bit. Also always OS teching is counterhit bait, but for a time when online juts always OS tech every time, don’t care about losing, don’t care about counterhits just try to find the timing. It is of course better to practice this offline, but it’s better to practice vs an opponent who you don’t know when they might be doing it than just having someone do it repeatedly to you(not to say that can’t help to, I just prefer learning stuff in circumstances I need to use it).
People online will complain about anything(I have a few gripes on occasion but it’s mostly when an opponent is being too dumb and they just aren’t learning(why don’t they stop jumping after I AA them 6 times in a row? This isn’t a fight, it’s a free win)) I have had people complain about my throws(albeit Goukens backthrow is ridiculous online XD), my defensive play(even if all I did during the game was start defensive and once an opening appeared rushed them down and effed their life).
Basic fact is, if you lost, it is NEVER your opponents fault for beating you. Teach them their errors by showing them why it’s bad. Gouken, is a character exceptional at beating habits. For he can punish one bad decision in intense ways.
I really don’t think Point is an accurate measure of how good a player is. He might performance well against match up commonly see online, but against specific player he might struggle entirely mostly due to play style. Not until 4000+PP will you actually see that type of great mechanics and consistency… as far as BP goes, anything under 16000+ are basically scrub level (I am 13000~, I know I am a scrub).
The different is mostly match up knowledge, practice, and experience. Match up knowledge give your opponent less chance to survive an error, practice make you more error free, and experience make you understand what the hell you are doing.
The first two is easy, all it take is time. The last one is the primary problem where player goes from a scrub to a real tournament winner. Scrub doesn’t focus on getting every advantage. Scrub doesn’t go out of their comfort zone. Scrub doesn’t think over what exactly they are doing and the consequences before they do something. Real winner will do -everything- to get advantage. A pixel of spacing, and pixel of life, all accounted for. A real winner will practice something they don’t understand -over and over and over- until they get it. They found a move they can’t beat? They will go into training room and iron every possibility out until they are comfortable seeing that move again. Specific tactic? Set up? all the same to them. However, the real difficult part is to understand what you are doing and how to make everything that you do to have a greater purpose.
Real winner have a purpose for everything they do. It starts in the character choice screen. How fast you pick your character and ultra will tell them how much match up knowledge you have. It also goes right in the starting few seconds of the round. How your character move will tell them what spacing you are most comfortable with, what kind of plan (or lack thereof) you have. How good is your footise, reaction, etc. They will read and get all these from you and generate a list of viable tactic against you. Understand what most likely you will do, and focus on beating you with these understanding: If you are weak on spacing? They will focus on putting you in the least comfortable area of the screen. If you are slow on reaction? They will test you with reaction based tactic over and over, keep throwing fast move, cross up and over head to force you to do something you are uncomfortable reacting to. If you suck at teching? They will throw you until you lose. Etc. Simple as that.
The first two parts, like I said, is just practice and studying, the last part, is the most important. The last part separate you from a mere character choice to what the player is. My advice is to start thinking about what you are doing. Overthinking is bad at a spur of a moment thing, yes, being predictable is bad, yes, but they are all accounted for when you think. Thinking including knowing when not to think and when to relies on gut feeling and how to be truely unpredictable.
When you understand all these and are actually able to apply it in game, you will become a good player.
I really didn’t read either of your posts to completion. PP is a bigger indicator of skill to me than BP is. Neither are very important in the end cause it is online, and I really can’t stand online.
I know, seem unlikely, but it is just logic. Think about it like this, let me give you some example.
[LIST]
[]Anyone who just go straight to their character and straight through ultra, before opponent picks anything.
[/LIST]
You are either:
[LIST=1]
[]Know only one character and one ultra, no idea and don’t care what your opponent pick
[]Already scouted your opponent and well prepared for this
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[]Anyone who spent a long time before your opponent even pick anything
[/LIST]
[LIST=1]
[]Know a lot of characters, not specializes into any of them
[]Waiting for the opponent to pick first, potentially a counter picker
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[]Anyone who spent a long time AFTER your opponent pick a character
[/LIST]
[LIST=1]
[]Trying to bait your opponent into picking an ultra first for perfect counter picking
[]Know a lot of characters, not specializes into any of them
[]Don’t know the match up to that character at all, struggling to make decision
[/LIST]
The list goes on.
I am the first choice although I know both ultras…mostly because I only play online and I never have the chance to see my opponent’s choices. As I am improving with some other characters, it would be nice to know who the other guy is picking.
Anyway I think these comment are missing the point. The idea is that it was an example to show you how little hints can show people what you are capable of.
BP doesn’t mean anything, PP is a better indicator of ones skill and event that isn’t the best indicator. BP basically just says how much ranked you play, whereas PP indicates how consistent you are when in ranked, pretty big difference. You can’t determine if somebody is a scrub by looking at bp, Infiltration has 0 pp with gouken, but I guarantee you he is in the 99 percentile of gouken players.
I dunno, you started with the context of BP and PP so I assumed the rest of your post was along the lines of online… in which case what you typed was for nothing.
BP and PP only tell you how good you are at manhandling the voluminous bad/inexperienced/casual players present online. Sure every now and then you might fight one competent player, but I know the bulk of my bp and pp comes from people I didn’t have an issue with. Watch a match and watch how he handles someone.
I remember recently fighting someone 10k+BP and 4k+PP. He never stopped jumping on me. I felt dumber for winning that fight only by antiairing -.-
A high BP simply says “this player has used this character a lot.” Usually, that means he’ll be pretty good with the character, since he has a lot of experience with it. Beyond that, the numbers don’t mean much. I stopped playing ranked after I hit 15,000 BP, 'cause all I wanted to do was hit the “A” ranking. My player points are frozen at 3333 because I think it’s amusing. I lose plenty to people with far smaller numbers than my own.
Yeah, I fought and won over lots of C+ and B players that had under 800 PP. They basically kept going up winning against weaker players.
My goal is to reach 3,000 PP. But I’m still reeeally far from it.