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Looking for some advice on how to time denjin inputs. I’ve been getting a lot of ex gfs off of back throw, ex palm, and trying to do anything short of full-screen hp.hado -> denjin set-ups. Does anyone have any useful ways to make sure the inputs come through clean? I understand that the game is telling me I’m not getting two full qcf’s if I’m getting a gf, but I’ve been consciously working on my inputs (and even looked at the input data in the training room) and am still getting these ex.gfs. As a note, I play online and acknowledge that I’m inherently setting myself up for slopping inputs, but still hoping for suggestions on this.

From what I’ve heard, if you start the motion as HCF, QCF, KKK instead of the normal 2xQCF, KKK, that removes the F, D, F input shortcut that comes out as a SRK; or GF in this case. Especially since the end FB motion already leaves you pressing forward; this has been a problem for me as well, not to mention others IIRC.

Let me take this entirely out of its context and say grats!

How do you chip a b/1/7/c/h out when their on top of you?

cl.mk > lp.palm would be the most reliable way, I imagine.

You go for that one and ignore this beauty:

Backthrows, even GFs leave you cause it so CHEAP

A few basic questions:

  1. What’s the best Ultra-less backthrow combo? j.MP xx HK Tatsu? j.MP, c.HK?

  2. What are Gouken’s best buffer pokes? c.HP xx EX DP? s.MP xx MP DP?

  3. Should all hit-confirms start off of s.MP?

  4. Is there a list of written safe jumps somewhere? I saw a video on them, but I was never sure if there were waiting periods or if being frame perfect would make the setup whiff.

  1. You can either do what you said, or you can go for a reset/mixup as follows: backthrow > j.mp > fp > demonflip > grab. If you think the opponent is going to jump or backdash, you can demon flip kick instead of grab. Alternately, if you think the opponent will reversal your demon flip, simply don’t do it and bait the reversal at that point.

  2. Gouken’s cr.HP does not cancel into specials when it hits at long range, so it is not a good buffer poke. The best poke I have found is cr.lk into tatsu, but even this is risky as tatsu may not fully connect depending on the range you hit at.

  3. At present cl.mp is the only normal Gouken has that reliably links into other normals, so if you’re really trying to be careful about things, it’s the best place for combos to start.

  4. [media=youtube]s1Gw91WQrVY[/media]

Where would you guys rank Gouken as a zoner? Compare him to Ryu, Sagat, Akuma (air), Dhalsim, and Guile.

J.mp to hk tatsu does not work off backthrow.

With no 2 hit ex fireball and no way to quick break focus fishing with out taking a huge risk, it’s tough to compare, especially since I don’t play those other characters. He also has no trueblock string into fireball outside of a hp cancel or cl.st.mp cancel.

You don’t need to jump to advance on Gouken so anti air fireballs are for the most part moot.

Against zoners his palm helps but against people that are tough to zone he is easily the worst zoner imo.

What does work? I’m VERY new to Gouken, you see.

just a plain HK Tatsu, or 1-hit jumping MP to EX Tatsu.

1-hit jumping MP to cr. HK nets a hard knockdown, and cl. HP instead of sweep will give you a reset.

I dont know if this has been asked but what are his invincible moves? also, what are his wake up options?is ex counter instant?

the invincible moves are EX Flip and EX Tatsua. Wake-up options are Kongo counter, EX Flip and EX Tatsu.

Tatsu will miss on crouching characters, even if they were attacking, such as Ryu’s cr. LK. It will however hit Ryu’s cr. MP, but it’s a huge, enormous, gigantic risk. Against some characters like Zangief, it won’t whiff, however (unless I’m mistaken, but I don’t think so). EX Tatsu isn’t a reliable wake-up option.

EX Flip is invincible all the way up to the peak of the jump, which allows you to escape for example Ryu’s Ultra 1 combo. When you reach the peak of your jump, you can divekick, throw, parry, or land and automatically sweep. This move is great against intermediate opponents, but against players who know how to play against Gouken, it won’t work. When the opponent is close, as they often are during Gouken’s wake-up, you will flip to the other side where none of your attacks will hit, and the opponent will easily be able to hit you while you descend.

Kongoshin-counter is instant and it counters everything except armor-breakers. Obviously it will also fail against throws.

Wake-up is Gouken’s weakness.

Invincible:
EX Flip on the way up
EX Tatsu(I think 7f of inv frames)

All counters go active on their first frame, not just EX(different from juri who has 3f counters and 1f EX and Dudley who only has 3f even on EX)

Edit: accursed Ninja’s

cool thanks, im probably going to main him in v2012

He is invincible from grounded attacks and projectiles during his palm slide as well after startup and before hit activation. This is easily observable during a psychic punish on Dhalsim’s noodle arms.

1 question:
Has anyone noticed less hit stun off jump in mk?

I felt the exact opposite.

add me mr83martinez