Theres a thread in the yun forum where new players can ask questions and so i figured it’d be pretty sweet if the chun forum had one too.
also i got in a car accident today and am kinda fucked up and so i can’t really play right now even tho i want to so i figured this would be a fun substitute and i really feel like doing something positive if i can.
i’ll try my best to answer anything i can and i’m sure the other chuns will to.
people that are having trouble beating chun feel free to ask questions too. i’ll try to help out as best i can there too, im no Boss so i can’t give exact top tier shit to do against her with every character but ill at least try to say what chun wants to do and how you can try to punish it and what you should look out for.
Whats the timing for F+HK into sa2? I know it has to be done on crouchers.
Is it preferred to do a 360 for close s.HK into sa2 instead of a tiger knee? I prefer TK since I’m used to using Ibuki and I do TK SA1 alot, but I want to know what you find easier.
What’s the best way to land lightning legs? It’s not as easy at is in ST.
The timing on Hop Kick super is basically the same as Ken’s cr.mp > Shippu link. Maybe a bit faster. You just need to practice that.
I do a 360 for the close st.hk > SJC > SA2, but do whatever is most comfortable, they’re both fine.
LL isn’t really a move you should concern yourself with landing a bunch. Wakeup EX Lightning Legs is decent (better than EX Spinning Bird Kick IMO), but it still gets beaten by a bunch of weird ass normals. LL after the super jump cancel follow up from SA2, is okay, but only if you have trained your opponent to try guess parrying. Otherwise you’ll just get it blocked or Shoryu’d.
[FK->sa2]
F+HK into sa2 is a link very similar idea to makoto’s hayate into sa1. i used to have trouble with it because i would try to do the super too fast before the FK was totally finished.
the timing is you do the FK and during it you roll a QCF, when you see it hit roll another one and use the piano method when the animation is finished.
its very helpful for the timing just to know its a link because you can look at the practice dummy and think about it as trying to hit them while they are reeling from the hit instead of canceling.
thats the only reason it has to be done on crouchers is the hit stun is bigger.
i feel like i i’ve seen it connect on counter hit sometimes when the hit stun from it is big enough. but yeah for the most part crouchers.
[cl.HK ->sa2]
i’ve had a few different preferences on this particular cancel. i used to prefer 360 and sometimes i still do just because when i see it hit sometimes i feel more comfy throwing the 360 really fast.
however lately i really prefer the tiger knee and think it total it is the superior method. however its only superior if you only tiger knee the second qcf so that if they block you don’t SJC and can go straight into an mk kara throw (the range after a blocked st.cl RH is perfect mk kara range).
SJCing on block isn’t terrible by any means, and sometimes it gets you out of throws if parried. fierces/roundhouses have the least parry freeze so its a pretty decent escape on parry esp if they mash throw after parry. however if they are in the corner and you SJC on block you gotta be ready to wall jump outta there. if you don’t you’ll just smack the wall and fall into the corner and end up being pretty vulnerable.
all in all i find TK easier and better nowadays.
[lightning legs]
lightning legs are pretty situational in 3s as they require setup but they are very useful.
the way i use lightning legs the most is to do a back+fierce while buffering lightning legs so that if they parry they will most likely eat a deep lightning legs combo. it is really one of the safest options in the game imo especially against characters like dudley who like to get jump in parries since their ground game is so rough against chun. even in the event that they parry the lightning legs you are safe. you can keep lightning legs going forever as long as they are parrying so its a guessing game but its pretty much in your favor. sometimes they will cross over to the other side of you if they come in at the right angle after parrying the lightning legs, however a follow up hit is not assured for them. its great on the ground too since you don’t have to waste a super to make parrying you unsafe.
the reason back+fierce into LLs works is because the parry freeze allows you to input the additional kicks needed to make them come out. you do have to press it kind of fast though.
it takes 4 kicks of charge and 1 kick to activate LLs. this is important in knowing how to use various LL setups. the charge is stored for a suprisingly long time and i’ll explain that in a second.
you can hid the kicks in lots of different actions, normal moves, dashes are the best ones for going up and hitting someone with LLs tho.
i like to do 2 normals and during each one hit 2 hks then the 5th kick to activate.
when you do this you will have to close the distance to get the LLs to actually hit.
the way you do this is that LL charge will be stored as long as you tap a direction (or do nothing for a second but that won’t help in closing the gap)
so you can charge the 4 kicks in normals then tap forward, tap down, tap forward and hit a kick to activate.
the reason you can’t just walk forward is that holding a direction will nullify the charge so you are in effect simulating the movement of a standard walk with the tapping yet keeping the charge.
you will see MOV do this allot.
an easier way to land LLs is to charge 2 kicks in a normal then dash and do the remaining kicks in the dash.
if you are fast you can do ALL the kicks in the dash and require no previous charging but you risk getting dash up cl.HK (not bad, but not what you wanted) if you were a little slow.
amir uses this one a ton.
if you wanna get fancy you can do kara lightning legs by charging 4 kicks (hk for this tech) and then using kara mk~hk to get the lightning legs to burst forward. i LOVE this trick in theory but i don’t often find the proper setup for it in matches, it looks really cool when you do it.
if you are REALLY fancy you can do kara EX lightning legs but the button input is kind of hard while juggling the charging and timing and stuff. the inputs for that would be HK x 4 in whatever way you wish, then mk~lk+hk. you almost never see this in matches b/c for the execution required its not even that great but it IS awesome.
i prefer doing uoh into ex LLs for most times when you’d use something like this. i stole it from Raoh and i think its more useful especially for how easy it is. it seems to work in the same situations too. e.g. getting that last bit of life off of a waking up opponent.
the other way to use LLs is post sa2. this is often done with MK lightning legs so that you can hit mk and have it cancel to LLs. lets say for example, you follow up sa2 with just a sj.lp. you hit mk 3 times, do a c.mk and then hit mk one more time to cancel to LLs. its pretty dope!
nuki and pyrolee do this a bunch.
c.mp is great!
the strength of the c.mp is its max range which is ever so slightly further than the max range of c.mk
now although you can’t cancel it, in round it is tremendously useful because people try to stand just outside of your c.mk range. at that range your opponent is looking for 2 things, they are looking for you to either inch forward for c.mk or they are watching for a far fierce.
this means you can go to just outside of c.mk distance and hit with the c.mp which has a good chance of connecting if they are looking for the c.mk or far fierce.
the other amazing thing about c.mp is that the timing is very strange, especially in comparison to the straight forward and fast c.mk which is the move people fear and usually the one they have in mind when they are optioning low for a parry.
c.mp is a great move because it makes your timing and range on your footsies much more hard to read. and in addition since people aren’t afraid of it or looking for it specifically ever since your other options are so deadly it connects often and the damage (while its no sa2) definitely isn’t something to just scoff at after you’ve connected a few or when they are low on health.
Ticking into far fierce or roundhouse is good. You gain the same large amount of meter whether it hits or is blocked. Nuki and Tokido were doing it at evo and it seemed to work well.
Hey I’m not really new to 3S but fairly new to non-cpu play (AKA versus humans). I still have a lot of work to do, but one of my main issues is wake-up. I keep eating mixups! After a while I can adapt to a player, but overall it just takes up too much of my life. I’m talking about situations where you are down and the opponent can do a crouching move, an overhead, or a throw. I try to do anti-air’s (If you can call any of Chun’s moves that…) or throws, but they usually get eaten by overheads. There are also the mixup divekicks (front or back). Even if I can guess the side of the divekick, I still feel bogged down. Overall, I can guess mixups about 30% of the time, but I’m sure that there has to be a better way to handle them than to guess.
I also realized that watching high-level video’s is sort of useless. Until I learn all of the basic stuff (AKA first few years of 3S), all of that high-level stuff doesn’t help me.
Chun doesn’t have a good wakeup game; you really want to avoid getting knocked down against some characters. When you talk about cross-up divekick setups, I’m going to assume Yang is involved, with his crossup j.mk xx divekick -> omgwtfbbq and you’re on the ground again. AFAIK actual divekicks don’t cross up?
EX spinning bird kick stuffs many overheads and jump-ins nicely, and makes a lot of low stuff whiff. Obviously trying to throw it isn’t a good idea either. It gets beaten out by random shit, and most pokes.
okay first thing is first, block low 90% of the time when your new. The reason you are feeling like the wakeup situation is overwhelming is because you are letting yourself get read by trying to react to much to what your opponent is doing.
You need to try to think about what options the opponent wants to hit you with the most and those options are generally going to be the highest damage ones. In the case of most characters this is going to stem from you not blocking for one reason or another. also as a general rule of thumb most of the highest damage options come from low hits or meaties (hitting you AS you wakeup).
you should know that overheads are generally not that scary and the reason people usually use them is to get you to open your guard. lets say someone hits you with 3 UOHs in a row. when this happens you are REALLY going to want to stand. but ask yourself why they did 3 UOHs? it was to GET you to stand, thats why it feels like your guessing wrong so often is you are reacting in the way they want you to.
same thing with throws, someone throws you like 2 or 3 times. you are really going to want to try to throw them back or tech the throw right? well that is what they are setting you up for, ken for example is just waiting to either meaty strongxfierce your throw attempt or back dash low forward xx high damage something.
something to consider is that playing safe isn’t never taking damage, it means you are only open to their least damaging option.
im sure you are aware that people can UOH super and that is a frightening thought, however that requires a specific range and is really not that often used as that range allows you to stand up and block on reaction.
the only very scary overhead is dudley’s toward+roundhouse because he can link super and its so fast you can’t react in time and pretty much have to guess.
the good news is dudley should almost never be able to knock you down because of chuns superior ground game.
by blocking low the majority of the time you limit their options which means that once THEY know you are going to block low they will either continue to pressure in hopes you open your guard on your own. OR try to throw you.
your best friend as a new chun will be c.jab. it beats throws, it beats every command overhead except for dudley’s pretty much as well. you can also block for a second to make sure you don’t get meatied and then crouching jab their throw attempt. also when you do crouching jab do a throw input, this will allow you to tech the throw if your jab doesn’t straight up beat it.
without the idea in the opponents mind that you are going to block almost everything they throw out, doing moves on wakeup will only get you killed. they must think you are going to be on defensive FIRST and once they are convinced of that options like EX-SBK will work wonders.
basically improve your blocking game so that you can tell your opponent with your playing that “i will and can block EVERYTHING YOU GOT” and from there the options you have to deal with are much much more predictable.
one last note: if they start walk up down parrying your low jab when you use it, THEN you can start throwing them again. put em in the corner and do it to it.
EVERY move chun has is good and has a use. in fact the higher level of player you are facing the MORE you will have to use every move in her arsenal to give you the edge because if you limit your own options a high level player is going to be able to read you much much easier. make them shut down your options, don’t do it for them by restricting yourself to limited number of setups or only using 1/3 of chun’s moveset.
even the BEST setup in the game can be parry bait if they read so the answer to what moves never to use b/c your setting yourself up for easy punishment is :
“the same thing twice or more without trying to bait a response that you yourself are going to punish them for”
simultaneously no single setup will work all the time because this is third strike and doing the same thing every time will get you parried and then killed.
look at the above posts in this thread for the uses on crouching medium punch in zoning.
standing mk: the main thing that makes this move GOLD is that its used for karas but it does have a use outside of karas in that it is a VERY effective anti air for throwing off parry timing. if you look at it it sweeps all the way over chun’s head and behind her. i can’t even tell you have many low jumping dudley’s looking for a parry i have hit with this because they expect a back fierce and the arc of where it hits can be so very confusing.
c.jab/c.lk : a million and one uses. the one you probably see the most is tick throws for setting up kara throws but don’t restrict yourself. these moves are SUPER safe. c.jab also beats throws but i mentioned that in the wakeups post. get creative with these. just remember c.lk’s chain and c.jab chains from standing jab. but jabs are generally not that safe on parry b/c jabs have the biggest parry freeze. one more thing is that c.jab is parry high/low but is faster (2 frames). c.lk is parry low only and isn’t generally as good at beating things. standing lk has deceptively long range, test and see how far it hits!
standing strong: this move is godlike. best use is beating dash ins, shoto crouching forwards and alex/dudley entirely. it shuts things down because its so fast, and very hard to punish on parry for many members of the cast. you can cancel to super but its not confirmable. its an incredible move, use it often. its great for meter building too, much safer than back fierce. watch nuki play you’ll see ALL kinds of applications for this move.
down+back HK: this move was i thought one of the exceptions for moves chun shouldn’t use but it turns out i just wasn’t thinking out side of the box enough. it seems like just a canned setup right? wrong! against characters without a shoryu you can do this from slightly far and land in front of them and go straight into kara throw. it will dumbfound your opponent. japanese chuns do this from time to time. do this VERY rarely. you can use it for higher damage punish on certain super arts as well if you parry/redparry the last hit.
basically try not to think in always and never, in 3rd strike those things don’t exist especially the higher level up you go. i’ve even seen good players get killed with EX flipkick cuz they were trying to parry the regular timing and the flash screwed them up cuz no one ever uses that. normally thats a waste of meter but not in final round or if its for the win.
everything can be used.
how do i practice hit confirming c.mk because it seems that i can hit confirm b+HP xx SA2 easier than i can c.mk xx SA2. and c.mk xx SA2 is supposed to be easier (atleast thats what people say). any ideas?
I’ve tried that, and its well, kind of frustrating. I listened to the podcast on Justin Wong and he said its even hard for him to do 10/10 c.mk xx supers on random guard in training mode on PS2 also. I guess I just have to keep training until I can do it then huh? Plus I’m practicing it on the DC instead of PS2 so maybe that might be an issue also?
practicing on random guard is the best way. its also by far the most frustrating because it doesn’t let you cheat AT ALL. you can’t see them flinch before hand or anything. the thing you need to do is not get frustrated, if you super on block don’t freak out, just try to be as calm as you can and keep trying.
also ps2 is faster (less time for hit confirms) than dreamcast although dreamcast is slower but is said to have input lag. i don’t know how exactly that effects it but the thing about hit confirms is since they are so reaction focused you really must try to be as relaxed as you can when you do it. just keep at it, and if you get in a rut practice something else for a little bit and then go back to trying.
basically just keep practicing.
also make sure to roll one qcf as the moves comes out and do the second one when it hits. also sometimes its just a mental block so try hit confirms with different characters, they might have ever so slightly different timing but a hit confirm is a hit confirm and the skills transfer over.
when i was first practicing hit confirms i picked tons of different chars and tried their hit confirms and it helped me allot.
hit confirm is 2 parts 1) good buffering , 2) good reactions.
make sure you have both and make sure to stop and analyze how you are doing it, how you are moving your hand, if you have any tendencies that make you want to hit it early.
also allot of players confirm better with sound. myself included. its no coincidence, the human reaction time to sound is significantly faster than to sight naturally. its somewhere around 20-40 ms faster in general. blast the volume and see if that helps. good luck!