BB has fantastic tutorial/challenge/training modes compared to other fighters, hit those up for awhile before jumping into real fights. Dustloop has most everything you need in terms of combo lists/individual character strategy.
leaving this here
S: Ragna, Valk
A: Bang, Hakumen, Tao, Carl, Hazama, Arakune
B: Lambda, Mu, Plat, Relius, Rachel, Tager
C: Jin, Noel, Litchi
D: Tsubaki, Makoto
take with a grain of salt
Unnecessary and super heavy nerfing of mid tier characters for the win.
This pisses me off so much. I’m not taking it with a grain of salt, because this has basically been my feeling on this since news of the changes started to drift in. It’s been like:
Tsubaki:
Charge time nerfed
Power of charge moves nerfed
5B (only decent poke) nerfed
Chargeless damage nerfed
Combos nerfed
Minimum damage on already dubiously powerful super nerfed
System changes totally screw your pressure because you’re a crazy short ranged character and the barrier pushback change hurts you a lot.
But now your super slow overhead (3rd slowest in the game, and the two slower ones have other useful properties like primer breaking) is a fatal counter and you can do your useless Mugen/Install move in the air! That should be enough to compensate for basically nerfing every aspect of your character, right?
I am seriously considering giving Extend a pass until they come to their senses on this stuff.
Kind of in the same boat. At the moment it doesn’t really feel like they know what they’re doing.
Instead of releasing a stream of updates they need to take a long hard look at what’s wrong with the game and then fix it.
I would have argued that there WASN’T much wrong with CS2; Makoto needed a little bit of tuning, and Tager needed some love. Noel needed to be a shade less stupid, and maybe lower damage a little bit across the board and you’re done. There wasn’t a need for all the screwing around they did, IMHO.
I get the feeling ASW has a different philosophy to their sequels. Rather than minor tweaks to adjust the balance towards equality (which seems to be Capcom’s intention, successful or not), ASW seems to want to mix things up with larger changes and let the final balance end up wherever it lands.
There’s definitely a school of thought out there (both devs and players) that says a game where there are strong and weak characters is more interesting than a game where everyone is evenly A tier or whatever.
I dont particularly agree with those sorts of views, but thats the impression I get from forum watching and dev interviews etc.
Yeah, and I basically think that those people are just afraid of their treasured top tier characters becoming less fun to play. Basically, you have only to look at and play CS2, which is, basically, the game you just described - where everyone is A Tier except for Makoto, Tager, and maybe Valk or something - to realize that the whole “heavily imbalanced games are more fun” thing is basically nonsense.
What IS important is that all characters need to be distinctive and strong. A game where all the characters are similar or feel “weak” is boring, yes, but lets be honest - the odds of that actually happening are pretty bad, because the developers know this, and it’s really easy to avoid.
Basically, I think the people who say “games with strong and weak characters are more fun” are shortsighted. Any game that is fun is MORE fun with a higher number of competitive characters. Up to a point anyway. I would actually argue that that the SSF4/UMvC3 rosters are pushing “too large”, but that’s just my preference.
While I commend ASW for trying to “mix it up” I believe this sort of thing should be done for MAJOR releases (i.e. “BlazBlue 3”) not for these little updates that are basically still the same game.
The change from CT to CS was good, all the updates to CS are questionable.
But it’s not just character balance I’m talking about, but the entire system itself. For one combos still take too long for the most part. Some might call those things BlazBlue’s “style”, but that’d be like calling it WoW’s “style” when you have to deal with a healer leaving and you having to look for a new one for 30 minutes.
I would prefer it if they made the combos shorter but with better prorate. Because frankly these 20 seconds or longer 8k combos they have now isn’t really what I’m looking for in a fighting game.
I’ve actually had time to go and grab a drink from the fridge while I was getting combo’d, lol.
I dont really agree with the direction BB has taken either much. Not that I revere CT or anything, but I wish they had solved CTs problems in different ways. Long combos annoy me too. At least they’re actively taking the loops out.
I wish they had stuck to their intention of keeping BB as a friendly accessible game to attract casuals and beginners. Maybe they should have made a new GG after BBCT to appease the hardcore so they wouldnt have to cater to everyone. Shrug, its probably not a popular opinion here.
at all the post above me
just wow, and LMAO
as always its nice to see that the average srk member post dumb stuff without knowing what are they talking about
1st of all that crap of the school of thought about unbalanced games being more fun is some shit that Ono (capcom) said about why the twins were stronger than other chars in the cast
they are here to stay, if they have not taken them out since the 1st revision, they wouldnt take them out later
I completely disagree; CS2 was an excellent update. And it even made combos shorter, overall, for you people who have issues with that.
I don’t really think this is a good analogy, since you still need to be focused on the game - even when you are being hit.
Pleased to meet you, Mr. Hyperbole. 8k combos don’t really happen in real matches except in rare cases and Arakune. 
It’s entirely too much of a fringe case to be concerned with, IMHO. That said, I think we’re not actually asking for such radically different things here - I’d like to see a general reduction in damage (I don’t really care about combo time - honestly, I find it a strange thing to worry about.), and a specific reduction in damage for certain characters to bring them more into line with the rest of the cast. It’s one thing to have variety, but another when Noel can do 5.5k midscreen with 50 meter, and the best Platinum can manage in that same circumstance is like 2k.
If that’s the case, then I’m not staying. Long combos don’t make a game more challenging, deep or fun. Especially when you often have only one or two combos you fall into.
I mean really, a character like Hazama is one of the most boring characters I’ve ever played from a combo standpoint.
Some people just don’t like this kind of stuff, so if they want to lose players with that then that’s their problem. Nothing more to say really.
Feel free to disagree, it’s your opinion after all.
You need to be focused in case they drop a combo maybe. But if you play against experienced people then the chance of that is almost nonexistant. Bursts are also usually done early, since there’s no point in Bursting close to the end of a combo.
So really, you don’t need to focus a whole lot while getting combo’d.
As I said, it’s not like long combos make the game more challenging, deeper or more fun. Watching your character getting beat up for 15 seconds while you do nothing isn’t really what most people look for in a fighting game. Maybe it’s something you find enjoyable, but many people don’t.
Rare cases and Arakune? Yes not everyone has 8k combos, not everyone has 6k combos, but there are a bunch of characters with very high damage combos which are legit. Heck, to bring up Hazama again he’s another character that either deals around 1500-2000dmg to extreme amounts of damage with his relaunch combos (which are not as rare as you imply these types of combos are).
But really, my point was that a bunch of characters (not all) have combos that can deal a lot of damage and also take a long time to perform, in addition these combos are not as “rare” as you think. So watching your character lose 70-80% of your life while not being able to do anything (Burst is not always avaliable) for like 10 or more seconds isn’t exactly most peoples idea of fun… which is why most people play games, for fun.
Really, I could make a long and detailed list of stuff I’d like to see changed, but there’s little point in doing so.
The way BB is like in its current state doesn’t appeal to a bunch of people, so they’ve lost interest in the series.
If they want those people to return or to attract new people that might be put off by certain things, then they’ll have to change some things. If the developers don’t care if they lose sales then that’s their problem.
Players always have alternatives.
I’m a little confused, honestly, as to why you are even in this forum arguing this point. If you don’t like it, and feel that you have alternatives, why aren’t you off in their forums?
Fiddly points:
I don’t see how you can even argue that CS2 was a bad upgrade; Maybe it didn’t fix your complaints in entirety, but it DID fix a lot of problems and did not introduce new ones.
Hazama doesn’t deal 8k in normal matches.
You need to pay attention even if they don’t drop and you have no bursts, because you could be reset at almost any time.
Do you have any numbers to indicate that the people who have left because they didn’t like the game (as opposed to people who have left because they have short attention spans for games in general) outnumbers the number of people ADDED since CS came out?
Glad to see your estimate of actual combo time has already dropped 25%.
good bye then, no one will miss you
perhaps, but some people enjoy them , and this game is made for them, if you dont like it, you can alwas try other games that fit your taste, and nice generalization…
opinions, every one has them, but that doesnt mean that they are right.
and others like it, if they dont like it fine, but dont complain about how the game doesnt cater to your taste
its like people started crying because Burnout doesnt play like Gran Turismo, its plain stupid
Because it should be apparent that my interest in the series is not completely dead, it’s dying. I just decided to voice my opinion on the matter, but of course some people feel the need to try and prove me wrong or something, as if my opinions are wrong.
Saying that my observations are wrong is also pretty pointless, who are you trying to convince? Especially when you start talking about salesfigures, who honestly cares? I merely stated that some people might not like some things, so their interest might die and eventually they might also stop buying these games. I’m not even trying to prove anything so I have no idea why you feel the need to try and prove something no one apart from ASW should care about. I mean you don’t even have the numbers, so why even bring it up? Why is this relevant?
It’s as if someone in a discussion about a local bakery said that the new cake recipe didn’t tickle their fancy and they starting thinking about buying their cakes somewhere else. He would then be met by people that want to prove to him why this new recipe is superior to the old one and if he didn’t like it he should gtfo.
Seriously, cut down on the fanboysim. People should be allowed to reflect and hold normal casual discussions about something… or this not allowed here by you and the turtle here?
Does someone else not sharing your opinions and views bother you so much?
Do you enjoy acting like an a**hole? Or did you just have a really bad day?
Yes and that was my point. All games are not for everyone.
Some people (like me) hoped for some changes, changes that are not really happening, so guess what’s happening? Also, guess what I was talking about in my previous posts? That’s right, this.
Of course, I’m not saying that my opnions are some universal truth. That should be faily obvious since I say stuff like “one of the most boring characters I’ve ever played from a combo standpoint”.
Some people might like the fact that a character basically only has 1-3 combos they pretty much always perform in any given sitation, other don’t (like me).
I brought Hazama up as an example to make it easier for people to understand, not to prove anything, since I’m talking about something subjective here.
I’m not complaining (though it might seem that way since you people wanted me to elaborate on a bunch of stuff). At the absolute worst, I’m just a bit dissapointed. But whining? Pushing it too far, I think.
If you take a look at my initial posts then you’ll see that I merely made a normal comment on something someone said. I did not enter this thread and started calling the series garbage.
You might also have misjudged my posts as an attempt to try and prove why the game is bad or something, but really I only brought certain things up to make it easier for you to understand why I started to lose interest in the series. If you think someone trying to explain themselves is a “whiner”, then I guess I am a “whiner”. I frankly couldn’t care less what someone on the internet (that likes calling other people “dumb” without a second thought and generally be pretty rude) thinks about me.
And again, read what I have typed in this post again if you need to. I have typed a lot so it might be needed.
tl;dr Basically I (and many others) had hoped this game would eventually implement some of the things we liked about ASW previous fighting game series, a series which resembles BB a lot.
When we start to see that what we wanted isn’t really getting implemented, we start to notice that this game really isn’t our cup of tea, hence the dying interest.
If this somehow makes some of you mad or irritated, then you really need to learn how to cool down, because normally something so minor and subjective as this should not annoy anyone.
That’s pretty much all I wanted to say, so I won’t continue with this subject anymore. Maybe we’ll discuss something again at a later date, but hopefully the discussion will be more pleasant next time.
Until then, cheers!
I could probably dig up the sales figures if I wanted, but my point was that you essentially coming in and saying “They should do X or people will leave” is basically just you making things up. Yes, people will leave, but is that significant? Probably not.
Because you are not trying to convince us that YOU are right, are you?
Seriously. Maybe you don’t understand how forums work, but when you post an opinion, that is basically like saying “This is how I feel, and I wish to discuss this with you people.” By implication, that means that you should be prepared to back up your points. Few things bother me like someone who throws an opinion out there and then, when questioned responds with something like “Hey, it’s just my opinion!” especially when they’re not prepared to back it up with reasoning. Not saying you’re not doing the latter, but you’re treading a little closer to the line than I like. I’m a logical person, and it bugs me when people hide behind the “It’s just an opinion” thing.
Shrug, I normally prefer not to reply to people who are being impolite, but I will mention that interview from a while ago with the producer of BB. The question of balancing was raised and he said he wasnt much concerned about character balance, just about making characters fun. Im sure you recall this caused a lot of derision on DL (this was somewhere around CT/CS1 i think.)
At any rate, I doubt he meant it absolutely, and it’s not quite the same point as the one I made, but I have heard good players express that opinion before. Like I said, its not something I completely agree with.
As for combos, yes, I realised after CS2 came out that long combos were here to stay, so I started moving towards other games. Its annoying that no other FG has netcode and other stuff as good as BB, tho.
Anyone got any good EX Tager matches? I want to see how he is in the game.
Well, Akira apparently got a BlazBlue God’sGarden invite, and you can see some matches starting here: Should be pretty good stuff, I hope.