Tokyo Game Show 2012
JAEPO 2013
that thing is kinda old. its been “for consideration” for two years. its main feature is the analog control, which is used for some arcade games in Japan (notably Winning Eleven series)
according to AS, Clear Bat tops are just a prototype, they will consider actual production if people are vocal enough to demand for them.
Who better to get vocal than us?
CLEAR BAT TOPS!!!
Ahh so that’s where I saw it. I remember the video from Tokyo Game Show but it wasn’t really worth considering, but it was impressive.
Aside from that I think we may have gotten side tracked from seimitsu to sanwa…
That’s so japanese.
喉から手が出るほどほしい！
If you can figure out an economical way to get a Hayabusa to Ireland that doesn’t end up making the part cost twice as much as suggested retail price, that’s the way I’d go…
I don’t know what else to say… the largest gaming markets are in Japan/Asia and the US. Europe is going to get short-thrift unless Hori ups its operations on the continent.
Seriously, I think most of the new product recently announced from Seimitsu and Sanwa are in the common modern English vernacular "Beyond Lame!"
The transparent/skeleton buttons were the last value product I think either company recently introduced or re-introduced as the case was with the plug-in Skeleton buttons from Seimitsu.
The rest have been colors (it’s okay to give us more options there any time on production hardware) and joysticks that really don’t improve on or add to anything except new ways to drain your wallet! => That’s how I feel about the silent parts Sanwa pioneered around 2-3 years ago…
I still love some of the existing product – generally the Sanwa buttons and the Seimitsu LS-32 and LS-40 – but seriously Hori made the most comfortable-feeling control lever (to me) in the Hayabusa. It basically feels like an upgraded LS-32 to me minus all the personality quirks (re: manufacturing issues and bad performance traits) the Seimitsu product has. It does not pop on you and seems to hit the microswitch tabs more consistently. As much as the insides of the Hayabusa may appear JLF-like, it’s not a JLF-clone! For one thing, it re-centers quickly and actually feels comfortable with a square gate… that’s the first time that happened to me on a non-Seimitsu joystick.
That said, I’d still prefer a Seimitsu LS-32 or LS-40 over the JLF any day of the week… IF the Hayabusa were not an available option.
I won’t be throwing away or selling most of the Seimitsu joysticks I own but the upgrade path from now on – when I can afford it – is going to be Hayabusa all the way!
=> That is until some other company develops a better control lever than the Hayabusa. It only took how many years after the JLF debuted (10? 12? 15 years?) for a new control lever to emerge in Japan??? I think the JLF was the newest non-LS joystick in production out of the two major arcade part vendors in Japan prior to the Hayabusa.
[NOTE: I don’t know the dates for when most of the Seimitsu and Sanwa product was introduced. It doesn’t seem to to be something that’s catalogued or in promotions when I’ve looked. I know the Seimitsu joysticks have been around since at least the mid-1990s with reports of the LS-40 being the favored SNK Neo Geo cabinet control lever. The LS-56 can’t have arrived much later than the LS-40. The LS-32 is the grand-daddy of all them. I have not read of any reports of JLF clones or other JLF-like joysticks being used prior to the Dreamcast generation of console.]
I wish I could say there was new Seimitsu product that appealed to me beyond a banana green balltop handle! IF the consensus of the big Seimitsu boosters here is that the new product announcement was on the lame side then Seimitsu needs to rethink some things and make some radical changes NEXT year – for the better. I don’t think lighter springs and softer microswitches in another LS-56 redo (“LS-58 2014”) is the way to go.
[quote=“Roddy, post:85, topic:167161”]
What? The money-in-face shoving, or the extra arms – especially the one coming out of Fry’s pie-hole?
Clear bat tops are really so American.
[If they make them, great options for people that like bats! I’m used to balltop handles and prefer those.]
I never saw bat tops on home joysticks except for MAS customs or the occasional Japanese import that bowed down to American preferences. The only Japanese joystick I ever owned that had a bat top on it was the Ascii US edition of the Ascii Fighting Stick SS. That wasn’t what I really liked better about that joystick. It had the most comfortable-feeling buttons pre-Sanwa that I ever experienced!
There were already JLF clones in some PS1 and Sega Saturn Sticks. (Hori “Real Arcade PS / VF” variants) the PS1 ASCII Sticks too, although optical, were based on JLF Design (Ascii Zero 3, Justice, and Ascii stick 3).
oldest example I could find was the Spital Sangyo Stick that had an actual Sanwa JLF in it. Which was released during the original PS1 era.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1908672/candy/spital.jpg
Sega’s versus city cabs that debuted during the “VF boom” in Japan back in the mid 90’s was also the major introduction to the JLF. Sanwa made the versus city panels, which came equipped with JLF’s. arguable, VF cabs made JLF’s popular. Hence HORI’s own “Real Arcade VF” saturn stick had a very similar JLF clone.
JLF isn’t as young as you’d think. The reason why it’s so “new” I assume is because of several things. They became the “standard” because several key arcade cabinets stocked them. The Sega Net City/New Net City then the Sega Lindbergh, Namco NOIR’s , and the game changer, Taito’s Vewlix. And the debut of Hori’s own HRAP series, which came equipped with JLF’s mostly. It’s funny though, look up archives of japanese blogs from 2005-2009, most are about modding HRAP’s into LS-32’s. haha.
here’s a Sega Versus City scan from a a catalog flyer
Looks like a JLF. Versus City cabs were made in 1996.
while we’re at it.
Early on, LS-32 were the standard in NeoGeo cabinets (MVS, Neo 25/50’s/29, SCU’s) up until NeoCandy where it suddenly switched to LS-40’s (even still most flyer scans i see only has LS-40’s in “Super Neo Candy’s”). even more proof is if you watch most of SNK game’s “How to play” Screens, you can clearly see that LS-32’s and PS-14-G’s are being visualized. Arguably though, the NeoCandy line of cabs were the most popular from SNK (due to it having an actual 2L14B button layout, suitable for non 4-button neogeo games, and jamma wiring).
the alleged seimitsu NeoGeo AES stick too has more similarities with LS-56, not LS-40. the same ls-56 mounting plates and restriction gates can be used. haha.
according to this japanese arcade stick wiki , the LS-40 were historically found in Taito Egret II, Namco Excelleena and SNK Neo29’s. heh. LS-56’s were in sega naomi cabs. But earlier there were also the Sega Virtua Sticks/ and Konami HyperStick that used them.
I glad you posted this @hibachifinal
As it debunks the MYTH “the JLF is popular because or agreements with Hori And Mad Catz” or as so many scrubs like to believe.
The fact that sticks used JLFs is because Arcade cabs use them not the other way around.
[quote=“GeorgeC, post:87, topic:167161”]
I was referring to a japanese idiom (the one that I quoted) that means “I want it so much that a hand might as well come out of my throat (to get it).”
People believe that?! That Hori / Mad Catz made the JLF popular? LOLOL.
Yeah people tried to tell me that before. I wanted to debunk it but I didn’t have info to counter that claim.
[quote=“Roddy, post:90, topic:167161”]
Anime and manga never cease to amaze me! So many years later and and I’m still running across visuals and Japanese cultural idioms (that are new to me) like the one you quoted.
Thank you for the history lesson, Mr. Hibachi!
Much appreciated. I’m a student of history – both the real world AND pop culture.
This is more interesting to me than you’d imagine.
It’s nuts-and-bolts geek crap but, hey, it comes in handy when you want to repair things or figure out what NOT to buy! LOL
So pretty much all the major LS-joysticks AND the JLF are at least 20 years old.
It’s possible that the LS-32 and Sanwa JLW’s date back to the mid-, late-1980s?
The Sanwa JLW’s seem to be the only major non-optical, non-analog Japanese joysticks that have been discontinued that I’ve heard about anyway.
Funny that even back then people were wanting to put alternatives to the JLF’s into the original HRAP releases!
Nothing changes… Is there no love for JLF??? [smirk]
One good thing you can say for the JLF… it’s created a mod parts market for the type. Almost as many off-the-shelf parts as in street racing!
That still doesn’t change the fact that for many people the JLF is most popular because that’s what ships with their Mad Catz or Hori joystick case. Frankly, most people don’t give a darn about the arcade parts history… a good chunk didn’t really grow up with arcades and are just too young for the SF2/Alpha era. The earliest console many people may have played could have been the Dreamcast.
$23 for a replacement lever is not something most people sneeze at.
I’m crossing my fingers for the success of the Hayabusa in all honesty. I’d like to see at least one alternative to the JLF take off as OEM equipment rather than being a limited run item (re: HRAP SE) or something you have to swap out original component levers for. Again, I think the Hayabusa is generally better quality than the usual JLF-alternatives and definitely better than the JLF. Hori has no reason to continue buying JLF’s IMHO to equip their home retail units. They have the better product now!
(NOTE: => At least as far as control levers go for my comfort zone. If I ever buy any Kuro buttons, I’ll pipe up with my opinion on that but I’ve generally had fewer issues with the particular buttons that I own from Seimitsu and Sanwa. They’re comfy as far as I’m concerned. They don’t contribute much if anything to the timing and discomfort issues that the Sanwa JLF and Seimitsu joysticks do on certain older arcade titles…)
Isn’t this the case for the USA though? Or at least, a huge contributing factor to most people playing on JLF?
When I first got into stick building (2008/2009) the Mad Catz TE is still new and Happ parts where still relevant thanks to sticks like the Nuby Tech SF 15th anniversary stick and the X-Arcade using American style parts.
Which alot of gamers in the 20s and 30s (at the time) bought into as they were superficiality similar to parts in cabs in the 90s.
I did not know of Sanwa or Seimitsu until the Summer of 2009 when I ran into Video Games New York’s table at the Otakon convention’s dealers hall.
Where they had a display set up where you can try out different joysticks, not liking the gate jumping of the LS-32 I went with a Sanwa joystick and not realize I needed things like a wire harness or a mount plate.
Which is how this stick got born
Long and short of it we American players were not as educated as we are now about Japanese parts. I had no idea what Sanwa was other than the fact this fancy “over price” Mad Catz controller had the same parts.
And I was told these parts where “better for Street Fighter” and “oh yeah they are good for other arcade games too”.
Sanwa JLW’s are kind of an enigma, I personally dunno where it fits in the timeline haha, at least in japanese cabs. They are probably in older candy cabs, but that’s a lot harder to verify because even most restorations equip them with modern parts (most restored Taito/Namcos Japanese cocktails use LS-32’s i’d say)
they’re not discontinued i think, it’s still being sold in official Sanwa online shop. there are also clones of it around (Ultimarc J-stick), and only seem to be “popular” among american cab owners (MAME cab scene mostly) since JLW is a perfect drop-in replacement for US cabs. Besides the Capcom Fighter Stick, seems like it never really was installed by default in any retail stick either. But yeah, hard to tell…
Anyone know what cabs/games the JLW was originally used for? I’m banking on it being Sanwa’s entry to the western market early on.
here’s also something I found interesting…
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1908672/candy/pasoko-1000.jpg
it’s a “Pasoko-1000”, used for very early Japanese PC’s. It has Sanwa branding supposedly. The buttons are flat like PS-14-G’s and the Lever… is more similar to DonkeyKong/Wico joysticks of ye old times. haha.
point is, these tech are super old. i guess.
I also remind people I had Zero help from anyone from SRK Tech Talk when I built my first stick.
It was made from some electrical common sense and a few guides from MAME sites. I got the tip about common ground and daisy chains from a Chuck-E-Cheese employee.
I had a friend pre-2009 who was a HRAP enthusiast and he was into the whole Sanwa thing. I knew the Sanwa name before I ever heard about Seimitsu. Probably about 2006 or so he was getting into MAME emulation and playing on “legit” arcade hardware.
I contribute the HRAP and MadCatz TE sticks greatly to our awareness and education over here to the Sanwa brand and even partially to the Seimitsu brand in the event people were not happy with Sanwa, others in the know pointed out Seimitsu existed. Seimitsu’s transparent buttons were probably the largest contribution to Seimitsu brand recognition over here since up until recently, they were the only game in town for having art between your button plungers.
Also keep in mind I didn’t browse the forums until after that stick build and I was not a forum member till late 2010.
I spent my formative years (middle->high school) in the Philippines, and all we had in the malls/arcades were Japanese cabs. I didn’t know what arcade parts where until in highschool a friend tried to mod a Hori SC2 stick for PS2, and someone suggested Sanwa buttons. I later found out I was playing on JLF’s and LS-32’s all this time. haha.
First time i actually played on an american cab and parts was in 2005 when i went to LasVegas, couldn’t even shoryu in 3S 
