Yeah with GGPO you can fuckin’ play against people in Japan. Try doing that in SF4 and tell me how it goes.
Oh, you can play against them.
Just your character’s startup frame data is multiplied by a factor of fifteen.
hm ?
HOWEVER
I tried playing 3rd Strike online today against peeps from US , lagged like hell T_T
Not sure what went wrong, it wasn’t like this when I was playing yesterday against an Elena Player(goddamn we had some hype moments)
Now its lags real bad U_U
Although Alpha 3 is same tho, no lags and runs REAL good :3
I just don’t get it, Alpha 3 runs so smooth online but 3rd Strike lags like hell ? can someone brief me here ?
The problem is that there’s no access to 3rd Strike’s source code, so neither GGPO (at least, not outside Capcom’s own implementation in 3SOE) or FightCade are fully optimized for it.
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LvxTbIU2DJQ/hqdefault.jpg
WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
No GitHub back then.
Yuk, yuk.
erm, I kno its off-topic but
why is it that I can;t fight against the same person again on fightcade ?
I am inviting and the friend accepts it but nothing is happening
It worked for the first time
My A2 learning resources are in the alpha anthology forum.
As for the topic if ggpo isn’t used on next gen system I give up. There is no reason and no excuse now.
I know this is a long shot but, was there any word on fixing the SFxT netcode on PC? Or is it dead in the water?
No, there will probably NEVER be a patch for the console version of SFxT, and if that’s true, especially the PC version. The FGC shunned that game into irrelevancy, therefore there is no more money in it, and so Capcom could careless. They even said it themselves one day, they had “super” street fighter x tekken in the back of their minds before they launched SFxT, but after it fell below sales projections, the idea got trashed.
what does Harda try to convey here? http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2015/apr/06/harada-good-netcode-theres-no-such-code-automatically-makes-latency-issues-go-away-magic-tekken-7s-low-lag-techniques-explained/
it comes out pretty ignorant. well, he’s just a producer with excuses readily at hand…
Harada is basically explaining variable delay netcode. What he’s not acknowledging is that players want fixed delay with rollbacks (i.e. GGPO).
stopping this idiot ass mentality is #1. Why can’t we have articles explaining this crap?
Oh really??
I musta been dreaming about those titles that get constant praise for their ahem…ROLLBACK NETCODE oh sorry you hate that word, online play that is virtually indistinguishable from offline play (under the right conditions of corse).
Shit, I mean when Ponder came out with ggpo on those emulators in 2007, what we felt that was VERY close timings to offline play, compared to anything at the time, was all an illusion. It was actually a placebo effect under this imaginary thing called ROLLBACK NETCODE but the reality was it was still laggy as fuck because there is no such code that deals with latency issues. how wrong i was! Ponder and MikeZ (who commented on that article btw) are frauds! Harada may enlighten us all with the superior variable delayed netcode that is apparently unchanged from ttt2 to t7! hooray!
ok seriously tho i can't tell if he's 100% serious and content with his methodogy, essentially adding input lag in offline scenarios which is absoltely retarded and makes the game less responsive - why would anyone want that?
Whats even better is since Harada is a known big name, people are going to automatically think and agree with his stance on FG netcodes as seen in the comments sections already.Japanese companies nowadays are full of old farts who say and do stupid shit.
Harada=every Japanese developer…Japan refuses to learn & evolve. Or maybe the old guys in business suits still think rollback=GGPO=piracy
its most likely the later instead of the former.
its prob that that keeps holding back the fighting game genre online. almost every western developer has embraced rollback for fighters and know fighters need rollback more than any other type of multiplayer. KI and SG comes to mind. SF and KOF also come to mind as to what NOT to do regarding netcode. KOF2002UM on steam is 100% dead. no one is ever online. no one that plays vanilla 2002 on ggpo migrated to steam. when UM is so much the better game.
Why?
uh…netcode?
yup. the netcode. I don’t blame them. tbh. why drive a Toyota when you can zoom in a Porsche. bah. why do I even bother. fucking japan mang.
^This.
saddest thing is that son of a b…don’t ever look at western forum boards or non-Japanese language forum boards to see all the complaints about netcode.
and jap fighting game forums aren’t gonna stress the importance of good rollback netcode cuz input delay in japan cant be all that bad when your country is only the size of California. Japs never have to worry about distance between players and how it affects the gameplay with a country that’s California size. they’ve never experienced the hell of pacific coast to atlantic coast matches.
fuck japan mang.
sick of all these damn jap fighters with shitty netcode.
I want my money back Capcom & SNK!
for realz.
Harada is absolutely right.
The game has to be designed from the bottom up to support online play otherwise it’s going to be ass in area or another. Rollback netcode doesn’t magically make lag-related issues suddenly disappear.
For example, if you tie sound effects to various frames of animation and use rollback netcode it’s going to sound like an absolute train wreck. The reason it’s not that bad on GGPO, Suparc and other online emus with rollback code is that most of those games have the sound tied to actions instead. That’s why even if you throw a shoto out of their fireball startup in SFII you’ll still hear the entire voice effect play. When you tie the audio to individual frames, you’ll hear the sound cut out at random places even though visually it looks fine. 1f of rollback is virtually imperceptible but rolling back 10 frames of audio even few seconds will make you mute the game.
Then consider stuff like hitsparks which aren’t usually governed by netcode. You hit the guy, see the effect, but then game decides he blocked in time. But you’re still seeing the hit-spark because it’s not being rewound. This makes hit-confirmation nigh impossible. Here’s an example, ironically from T7:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xi7p1IYf7PU
iirc this doesn’t happen in post SF2 games (VS, 3s, etc) and they run fine on FBA. Its a simple matter of stopping the voice audio when the character gets hit.
Same deal with hit sparks, why would the game visually rewind everything but hitsparks.
That video just shows ‘lol variable delay netcode under extreme laggy conditions’ - if it used rollback/ggpo it would be teleport city. Both unplayable and undesireable. Altho I would probably choose major teleport distortion over 3x slo-mo.
You know what tho? All of that BS doesn’t matter because you know what?
for the 500th time already, KI on Xboxone has already proven rollback/ggpo is possible on a new 3D game without sacrificing any (visual) delay on move start-ups i.e. responciveness from player inputs.
Mean while 2 years later Harada, ‘ok we’re adding hidden start up frames all across the entire game to ‘match’ the timings as close as offline play’. Hell thats probably why they increased the start up for the traditionally fastest moves in tekken (8f jabs, 5f yoshi blade…) in t6…just to work on shitty delayed netcode…just because Harada refuses to use rollback…god knows why.
Ihira is right, there are already modern games that have used ggpo to great effect. There really is no excuse for any modern fighter to not implement it.
No it’s not. I don’t know what’s so hard to understand about this - the engine has to designed for that otherwise it’s just coincidental. I’m not going to go into how audio engines work, but this is exactly why SFxT sounds like this online:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liLBAQ4bKXw
Are we looking at the same video? It’s rollback netcode. They don’t rollback 80000 hit spark effects because it would be a completely stupid thing to do. The video was slowed down intentionally to highlight the issue.
Don’t say rollback/ggpo if you don’t know what netcode it uses. AFAIK, at most you can only say that Ponder helped them create their own implementation, which is great IMO.
But this has been my entire point since this thread was created. There are lots of different netcode implementations, and demanding GGPO is ridiculous especially considering there are other games that have their own implementations that work just as well, if not better than GGPO.
Instead of demanding GGPO, demand that they release an alpha/beta version outside of Japan ASAP, even if it’s just amongst top players so that they can get feedback early in the development process.