Need some advice from Seimitsu lovers

Tech Talk
1

Hello all,

I’m a long time lurker newly registered to this board hoping to get some opinions and some advice for a first time modder. :slight_smile:

I have an TE-S fightstick that I bought recently but I just can’t get myself adjusted to the stick, I guess JLF’s and perhaps Sanwa in general is really not my cup of tea.

I’m looking to replace it for a Seimitsu stick but problem is in the 20+ years I’ve played in the arcades (actually I stopped playing around 2003 or so) I was never too familiar with the model numbers of the sticks.

For starters I should mention I actually like the stock stick in the Neo Geo AES sticks which I believe from reading around these boards was a modified LS-30, I prefer octogates, not too large a throw, and generally like a stiffer feeling but not so stiff that I’d get carpel tunnel with fighting games (something I’ve had particularly in the days of GGXX). I mostly play fighting games, beat em ups and occasional shoot em ups and action platformers (Strider etc). I’m a big fan of Neo Geo and CPS games, yeah I’m one of those, who still plays kof98, last blade 2 and third strike.

I’m hesitating between the LS-32, LS-40, LS-56 and LS58 which as of now seems like it might be the best pick for me, what are you personal opinions on these sticks?

Also is it hard to install an LS58? I found tutorials on how to install the LS32 in a TE stick, is it similar to mount?

Thank you for your time.

2

From what you’ve described, I’d say go for a LS-55-01 or a LS-58-01. Octogates are available separately.

Easy to install if you get your joystick with an MS mounting plate, then it will go on the same way as the current JLF.

One thing to note is that you may need to flip the 5pin joystick harness upside down when plugging it into the TE pcb.

3

I second the LS-55. It’s stiff, but supposedly not as much as the LS-56. The Seimitsu octogate feels more like a circlular gate with small notches at the eight directions. I have the LS-55 with octogate in my HRAP3 right now. I’ve used the JLF but I don’t like the longer throw, especially with the Sanwa octogate that makes the throw ridiculous.

4

First of all, my english is poor, anyway i think i can give you some helpful tips.

Is a lot difficult to get over 20 years to get use to the feeling of japanese sticks. Your issue with JLF might have 2 reasons; the loose spring and the main one…the square gate (this is about the 20 years get used, JLF is a great stick). So, as for the LS-40, i believe you would like it very much for all games, but you will be stuck on square gate option. You may prefer this one better than JLF but you won’t have a american arcade stick feeling.
LS-32: great solid stick and works great with stock gate, but the extra main gate is a round one, you may like it but is hard to find corners…anyway i think it deserve a chance to give a try.
LS-55: i’ve never used but may be a good choice with octogonal gate.
LS-58: Not recomended for fighters due ultra-sensitive, which causes accidental engagement BUT…the octogonal fix that.
LS-56: same as 58 but the spring is heavier and at least for me, it gives fatigue on hands sometime after. However, i think great with battops.

I mean, is hard to say which 1 would be better, i think the last 3 sticks have good skills to be similar to american sticks. If you can order a combo, do it =)

5

If you’re used to older Seimitsus, I suggest the LS-32 since, from my experience, that’s the Seimitsu stick in most candy cabs with Seimitsu sticks.

6

Been at the ls32 for a while now and also prefer it to the long throw of the jlf. Also love those levered micro switches seimitsu employs. They ensure proper engagement IMHO.ls56 next

7

This sounds like two different things to me. If you want something like the AES stick you might want an LS-40 or LS-32. I haven’t touched an AES stick in over a decade so maybe someone else can chime in regarding which sticks feel similar.

For stiffer sticks with octo gates, LS-55, LS-58, LS-56? The octo gate should fit the LS-33 also, but that is a pretty light/tight stick.

8

Nothing on the market today feels like a stock AES joystick.

9

I wouldn’t recommend seimitsu at all.

LS-40, LS-56, LS-58 all have the same throw and engage !There is no difference in sensitivity (only in spring tension and construction).
http://www.kowal.itcom.pl/ArcadeParts_pliki/artZESen.htm
And as you mentioned, they are way too sensitive, it’s hard to hit a direction without landing on the diagonals, that sucks (but is prevented by the octagonal gate, so if you want to use it, it’s ok with the octo, I would recommend the LS-55 then, cause it has the same shaft lenght as the sanwa jlf). I was playing for a long time on the LS-56, you can get used to the stiffness, and to the sensitivity to a certain degree. But it will happens some time , that you land on the diagonals, annoying example with Blanka in SF4.

j.mk (crossup), cr.lk ~ cr.lk ~ fs.lp xx hp.roll
While maintaining the charge and pressing back during far standing lp, you land on the diagonals and blanka does a backwards j.lp , so lol.

My experience with the LS 32. Worst joystick on the market. Im serious. That is supposed to be quality made in japan? Comon, that thing is a constructional error. The pivot is jumping or moving on the restrictor gate, especially while pressing downblock. And I dont play with much force. That doesnt restricts or bother the movement at all, playing on this stick is ok. But not even the cheapest chinese knockoff stick has this jumping issue, it feels so cheap, it’s just so bad.

The sanwa jlf is just the qualitative best japanese stick (not only for me, it has a reason, while the jlf became standard in nearly all arcades and sticks on the market). It’s the perfect mix between sensitivity and accuracy. As you can see in the diagramm in the posted link, it still has a comparable short throw and engage, it is a little bigger than seimitsu, but that makes the stick so perfect, no accidently diagonals. The spring tension is just perfect. Low enough for fast play and strong enough, that the stick returns to neutral on his own.

If you just dont line the properties of the sanwa, I would still take a sanwa! (it’s just the damn best stick out there in accuracy). Put in a stiffer spring if you want (LS-55 spring alone or a ls-33 spring along wiht the jlf spring), put on a Battop. I tried it all. You can customize the stick as you want (but I play it as it’s meant to be played, square gate and standard spring, no mod at all. But it’s no problem to mod and you can fit it to your likings).

10

the LS-32-01 is slightly bigger than the JLF but not by much. I really don’t have any options for restrictors that I like on the LS-32. I left it as a square gate. I put a bat on it and I think it brings me closer to a retro american arcade memory. I started on HAPP I guess. I’m not sure but I think tekken, and street fighter had HAPP sticks in america. there is a tekken tag cab local to me now that still has a HAPP in it. they are very stiff. it was ok when there was a 500 pound cab holding it down. I can’t even imagine putting it in a controller on my lap. I am thinking about putting a bat on my other stick that has a JLF and octo gate. diagonals are easier to hit on the LS-32 + square gate. but the UP, DOWN, LEFT, RIGHT are sloppy as shit on the LS-32. the neutral wobble does make it feel cheap but its not so bad that I would say its crap. if they fix the wobble and make better gate, then it would be my favorite stick for everything. there are already people doing mods for all these sticks but thats another story.

11

Let him make up his own mind!

And btw, that’s YOUR opinion, not shared by everybody else… The opening poster has already said he doesn’t care for the JLF! Why are you trying to be a Sanwa salesman to him? Let him choose what’s comfortable!

No amount of spring modding will shorten the throw on a JLF or make it recenter as fast an LS-32, LS-40, or LS-56/-58. It just isn’t engineered to do that.

IF the only games you’re going to play are Street Fighter IV, SF Vs Tekken, Marvel Vs Capcom 3, or Tekken 5/6, then the JLF will probably be okay. Earlier games – CPS-2 fighters, SNK Neo Geo games, 2-D shooters – not so comfortable to play with the JLF. Those games are faster-paced than the polygon fighters of today. When you need speed and the ability to do fast-tap dash moves, the Seimitsus are far easier to come to grips with – and that’s without having to do all those ridiculous mods people talk about for the JLF!

There are differences between the LS-32 and LS-40 and they’re supposedly the closest Seimitsu joysticks in feel. I know because I actually have both of them! The -40 engages a bit quicker and with less force; the -32 is generally easier to play with and more forgiving with inputs. The -40 definitely DOES NOT jump the gate or its pivot but requires a lighter touch to use well. They use the same spring but the -32 has the advantage that it can be doubled up with an extra spring for a bit more tension. I haven’t seen how you can do that with a -40 yet without making it impossible to move.

The LS-40, btw, is the joystick most commonly used in the SNK Neo Geo AES cabinets in Japan. Several of the early to mid-1990s joysticks like the Capcom CPS Fighter also used LS-40 clones or modded LS-40s in them. LS-56’s were also used in the Konami Hyper Fighter joystick and early production versions of the revised (2nd version) Sega Saturn Virtua stick and Saturn Twin Sticks.

Your opinion on the LS-32 is NOT shared by a lot of people who have used it and swear by it. It is by default the alternative to the JLF whether you recognize that or not… Ragging on the -32 because you hate it doesn’t change that fact. The LS-32 would be the joystick most of us would recommend trying first before going off and trying the other Seimitsu’s. Yes, the jumping gate is a known fault in the -32 but most people get used to it after a while and don’t whine about it all the time. They learn not to jump the gate and get used to the eccentricities of the lever.

The -32 is excellent for both fighters and traditional sidescrolling shooters. Is it perfect? No, no such joystick lever exists but it’s the closest to a nice, generic all-round flexible good-learner stick and lots of people still use it in competitive play.

It’s easier to play “stock square gate” with an LS-32, LS-40, and practically every other Seimitsu stick in the line than it is a Sanwa JLF. The fact that people are still buying octogates in droves for the JLF should say something about how comfortable the microswitch layout and feel is on the JLF for many players!

There’d probably be more people swapping out parts if they weren’t so expensive to begin with and collectors and gamers weren’t so hell-bent on getting “the same thing everybody else is using!” I totally understand about the cost of parts – $24 on average for a replacement joystick lever is nothing to sneeze at. On the other hand, people might want to give alternative hardware a second glance because by the time you get done doing all those ridiculous mods on stock hardware for TE’s and Hori’s you would have been halfway to affording a new joystick lever or buying a used one off the Trading Outlet forum!

Also to consider are the third-party clones available of the LS-32. There are several companies that sell joysticks that while not exactly identical to the LS-32 have a similar feel for one-third the price. Not guaranteed to last as long but that’s another alternative…

12

LS-32 and LS-40 the closest in feel to each other? They feel completely different!

13

I was just posting my experience. You read a lot in the forum about seimitsu sticks. How good the short throw and engage is etc (mostly perhaps by people who doesnt even played a seimitsu stick and are just repeating what they read). There is even a jlf vs ls-32 thread in generel, I think the ls-32 even had more votes (lol?).
So I bought these sticks and tried them all out. The result, a waste of money, I returned them to the stock (like the LS-32 after a view days), or sold them on ebay (LS-56 after playing it for months and after months, trying out a jlf, so much better for me).
And I’m not only playing SF4 or “slower” games like that (playing a lot of KOF13 lately).
And as I mentioned, I wasn’t used to a jlf in before and couldnt adapt to the seimitsu !
My first stick was the ls-56, started with it, played it for month, feeled comfortable (besides of the accidental diagonals some times), then I tried a JLF and directly prefered it after like ~1 hour of playing.

The opening poster said that he is looking for a heavier spring and likes octogates. I mentioned the LS-55 with octogate (same shaft length as jlf, so easy installation with ms plate) or just modding his JLF (octogate and heavier spring), which should be the cheapest option cause he already has the stick there.

14

I think the decision to move to an octo gate should be considered in the context of what stick you are modding and what problem you are trying to solve. I play tekken as king (pretty obvious by my name) so a lot of my moves are just tapping a diagonal and nothing more. I go back and forth between sticks. the sanwa + octo + ball is harder to hit diagonals since the octo gate shrinks the corners. the bat is on my LS-32 and I love bats. I acually like the stick too. but I can’t do a f,d,DF as easy on the square gate that is in the LS-32 or any square gate actually. if your game of choice requires you to QCF or HCF then maybe the sanwa + octo is just perfect for that. I def agree that people are on crack when they say the LS-32 is PERFECT. I have noticed the jumping out of place issue people say they have on the LS-32 and I feel that it is greatly exaggerated. you need to slam the thing to the side to get it to jump the pivot. as soon as you release your meat fist, the pivot returns to its normal seated position in the cup.

the best advice I have heard in this thread so far is to try them all and then decide whats right for you.

15

IMO the LS-32 is very overrated, mainly because of the issues already noted - the grinding and the pivot popping. Horrible. Even has a very unnecessary cir-clip to make dismantling it a hassle without a dedicated tool. And the dark blue gate is really bad quality. The list goes on… the only thing thing in its favour is that it is near indestructible.

The rest of Seimitsu’s joysticks are pretty sexual.

16

Thanks to all of you for your replies, I’ve read all very carefully and appreciate every one of them.

It seems like the LS-32 is getting mixed opinions although appears to be the Seimitsu rival of the JLF, on the other hand the LS-55 seems to get a lot of praise, how does it actually compare to the LS-40 and LS-56/58?

As of now I’m looking at the LS-40, 55 and 58 but undecided.

As Robokrikit pointed out my first message may have had some contradictory statements. I should add that I don’t particularly like Happ, I played a lot of this with Street Fighter II in the early 90’s, I wasn’t too fond of how much effort was required to push the stick particularly for long plays it got tiresome. I didn’t mind the batt and I liked the octo gates. However I dislike when there is no resistance at all, so I guess I like something in the middle. I lived in Japan for some months in the mid 90’s because my father is of Japanese descent, I used to play a lot of Cps games such as the street fighter zero series and to me the stick there felt really good (again minus the square gate which makes it less accurate for me to pull off shoryuken type moves). The AES controller was pretty good to me too except again I really don’t like square gates.

I find the JLF to be too soft for my tastes and I like the stick to have a spring where when it flies back into place it goes straight back without the lightest feeling of wobbling. I understand why one would like the jlf because I think games like Tekken or Soul Calibur don’t require the sort of precise rapid inputs that the games did in the 90’s, no offense to Sanwa lovers but to me it’s tough to play with this.

I understand the LS-40 may be for me, but there is absolutely no way to get an octo on it even with some modding?

17

Anything can be modded, but in this situation I feel that the results would be quite bad.

If you can then try an LS-55-01. It doesn’t use a dedicated pivot unlike almost every other joystick and returns to neutral quick without being too stiff in feel. LS-40 is more similar to a JLF in my opinion.

18

You were probably playing on an LS-32 or LS-40. LS-40s were more common back than they are now, I believe they were stock on some of the Impress cabinets. If you walk into a Japanese arcade now, a lot of the old fighters will have LS-32s. Personally I feel the LS-40 is better suited for shmups. I have played many hours of fighting games with it and was able to adjust to its sensitivity, but I don’t recommend it over a JLF or LS-32.

People who like the LS-32 (and there are lots) use it in spite of these things, because they like it that much.

19

When I made my 2nd stick out of wood I went with a Seimitsu ls-56. It felt perfect tho at the time I was using an octogate. I couldn’t stand the feel of the square gate. Well I eventually got a TE-S Stick and swapped the sanwa for the seimitsu but after a while the board stopped registering movements. So I had to go back to the Sanwa, I eventuraly got used to the square gate but not the stiffness. I’m now running a stock Madcatz Brawlstick joystick in my TE. Feels much looser, but I guess I like em loose. :slight_smile:

I tried switching springs between the sanwa and seimitsu but it just made the sanwa worse. I miss that ls56 stick. Anyone know where I can get a replacement pcb board?

20

http://www.akihabarashop.jp/

Or you can replace that PCB with 4 micro-switches

Closes I found is that the Dreamcast Innovation stick has a Knock off of the Seimtsu Neo Geo AES joystick. Keywords is knock off. Toodles did a comparison of the 2 sticks after I did a Dreamcast Innovation stick mod thread