A few years back playing on GGPO I started to use Zangief’s RH Bite throw cuz it cracked me up and also set me up for the st.lk tick into SPD. Of course I knew that the bite would go super fast from time to time but I thought it was just random.
One day it seamed like I grabbed my opponent out of the start up of a normal attack and then got the hyper fast version. I started to notice this more and more and with other characters.
I also noticed that you don’t have to “Mash” on the stick and buttons but you only need to move the stick left to right in a rhythm. As I started to do this more and more I found that if I got the rhythm just right the sticks motion would match exactly Gief’s bites. This also translates to Ken’s kneebash so I see it alot with him as well.
What I need help with is to test this and here is my theory.
Interrupting a normal with a multi-hit throw like Geif’s RH or Boxers Headbutt will give you the faster high hit version.
Moving the stick left and right only can increase the speed and number of hits of the grab.
This might be kind of a reach here. I think that grabbing a jab will give you a slower version over grabbing a Fierce punch. Maybe even grabbing a Special like Ken’s FB as well.
If anyone can set up this test with some type of macro i would greatly appreciate it and I am sure that the community would love to know how this actually works.
Every time I bring this up eventually people just tell me its random. IMO it can’t be random and there has to be some reason behind this.
I’d definitely like to see the results of this, I’ve only ever noticed it with Zangief’s bite throw and didn’t know it happened with other throws too. I asked about this when I saw Graham Wolfe do it at Evo2k8 and I also heard it was just random.
For now I was too stupid and lost count of the bites while mashing frame by frame on Kawaks, using SSF2X, T1. I did notice the pattern “neutral, df+rh, neutral, ub+rh, repeat” takes the whole lifebar from Ken if you hold him twice with Gief, the exact amount of life he has. The other patterns I tried before getting some discomfort on my right hand (so I stopped) due to repeatedly pressing shift+space were just “df, neutral, ub, neutral” and single button pressing and releasing (equivalent to 30 Hz on the game), which have gaven less bites, being single button pressing the least number of bites.
I haven’t tried many times, but anyway I could not get the fast bite bug, even when interrupting attacks. Does it work on all ST versions, or is it specific to World or US?
Well, I say… There is no (defendable) reason whatsoever that I could fathom to purposely allow stuff in the game such that normal attacks sometimes working on the reversal frame (works for the whole round if it happens), 13 frame throw invulnerability on wake-up rarely getting ignored or the fast bite. But I am not a truth holder: if you have feedback from developers or know better, I would certainly like to hear and learn. I’m sure some of the stuff I was investigating recently is already known in Japan, but people don’t often check and translate it.
My arm is still a bit fatigated, but I can try ticking of stronger attacks later.
Oh, sorry, pal! There actually three methods I have tried: wiggling and mashing, just wiggling and just mashing. Results follow the order being stick+buttons the best one and just buttons the worst one. I have tried CigarBoBs idea of timing it, it seemed to work a few times but I ain’t good enough for it.
I messed around with it and a programmable controller a little a while ago. Perfect mashing with Zangief leads to more than half a bar of damage against everyone. There seems to be a bit of a random element, and, at least the last hit is much slower than the others. Mashing works with all of the throws I tested, and Zangief’s does the most damage.
It looks like I discarded any recordings I might have made.
I think what we want to find out is, what is PERFECT mashing?
CB said no buttons needed, just joystick movement in sync with the bashing motion.
VF4 said aniken got into tons of hits with just mashing mk.
I don’t believe any of these.
So what is the perfect mashing that you talk about?
I got 12 hits with Ken’s kneebash using only horizontal joystick movements (left to right and back, struggling) and only mashing on medium kick. [media=youtube]UKpK9xkS95k"]12 hits is the most I’ve ever seen with Ken’s kneebash so I figure that that method is the best. Also notice in that video how the Ken player grabs the Sagat player out of a crouching roundhouse. Here’s a 10 hit kneebash where the Ken player doesn’t tick into throw, he simply walks up and throws. Here’s a [from Blanka, the Dictator player doesn’t struggle against it though as he wants to preserve charge for a reversal super (that he never gets to use because the bite kills him).
I know you don’t need to grab someone out of the startup of a normal, nor grab someone in the recovery of a move, to trigger the ‘fast’ hold animation. You can trigger the ‘fast’ version of a hold by walking up to a neutral opponent and struggling as quickly as you possibly can, as soon as you’ve initiated the hold. Go into training mode and try it out. Struggling and mashing buttons (or one button) as soon as you’ve initiated the hold, I would guess at least, would be the most reliable method for scoring the most number of hits on a hold. The same principle, struggling and mashing as early as possible, also applies to [media=youtube]1uDTfbPEdfg"]escaping holds](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2qhgb1UOBc"[/media) without taking any damage [.
While we’re talking about holds, the number of hits a hold does by default is constant. Meaning if someone initiates a hold, and then neither player presses any buttons or touches the joystick, the number of hits on the hold will be a constant default number. I know some people think that the number of hits in a hold is random but it is not. Maj and I tested this when the issue of [URL=“http://shoryuken.com/f223/zero-damage-escapes-holds-218156/”]escaping holds without taking damage](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD0DB_dMnvU&#t=1m10s"[/media) was brought up. Taken from the Wiki:
So if you walk up to a neutral opponent, initiate a hold, then do nothing, you’ll get the above number of hits for each respective hold every time. You’ll also get the ‘slow’ or ‘normal’ hold animation every single time if you do not struggle. I don’t see any randomness or variance in the hold mechanic (aside from damage being random I would surmise). A nice piece of trivia…N.Boxer’s hold does 9 hits by default but O.Boxer’s does 11.
Maybe the ‘fast’ version is triggered by grabbing someone out of the startup of a move but I’ve seen too many times where someone has triggered it against neutral, blocking, or recovering opponents.
Testing is needed. The more the merrier for testing. I’ll test a few things when I get the chance but anyone else who can double check or verify should go ahead as well.
I have more success with getting the most hits during a hold when I struggle the joystick and mash buttons. Personally I prefer to struggle the joystick only horizontally and to only press a single button when I struggle. That method doesn’t seem to yield less hits from what I can tell.
Even if this is true, that interrupting a move with a hold, gets the ‘fast’ version, it’s still not the only way to trigger the ‘fast’ version of a hold. No matter what if you struggle quickly enough you can always trigger the ‘fast’ version no matter what occurred right before the hold.
It can but every time I struggled without mashing buttons I got less hits than when I pressed the buttons as well. The only time I could see just struggling being useful is if you are using Boxer and you want to charge two TAPs simultaneously.
Lots of people said that the number of hits in a hold was dictated by some random factors but that was proven wrong. I don’t think triggering the ‘fast’ version of a hold has any random elements. But then again this is ST so I wouldn’t be surprised…
Lastly while we are talking about holds, every single hold in the game has two different recovery animations, depending on what happened with the last hit of the hold. I left a little post about this on Nohoho’s blog that I have yet to post on SRK so I’ll leave it here as a reminder. Lots of people don’t realize this and probably just dismiss them messing up a followup attack after a hold as random or an execution mistake.
Papasi then your just a dick for not believing me :).
The stick movement and timing causes the bite to go faster and faster. I find that if I have the movement left and right down pat the faster I go the faster the bite/kneebash goes.
Seems like a Oldschool and Rufus might be getting close.
Oldschool I tried doing the stick DB/DF so I wouldn’t just by accident when the opponent was released but I think you are right that you must pass neutral between the forward and back.
Most of my tests were in HDR, turbo 0 (i.e. no frame skip), alternating frames of up/away+ppp, down/towards+kkk.
If you guys want to compile a list of patterns, I can run tests but currently only have access to HDR.
I have the answer. I don’t remember where I found it, but it was called the “hyper knee”. I was only searching for kens knee bash at the time. I’ll let you guys know after so cal and nor cal regionals. I don’t want to give away secrets that might knock me out later.
Actually, I don’t think so, I don’t play any of those multi-grab characters, but I notice similar things when struggling out of holds especially movement of joystick having more of an affect than buttons…(I sometimes cant mash the buttons as fast depending on what I was trying to do while being grabbed)…
The stick movement def helps more then the buttons. you can use turbo to test that out. go into a bash grab, then do nothing but use the turbo buttons. then do the same bash grab and do nothing but stick movements. you will see that the stick movements have more effect.
