Need Advice on Getting a Stick

Newbie Saikyo Dojo
1

hey, i haven’t played on a cabinet and with a arcade joystick since 1995, SF2, Fatal Fury, SS2, Mortal Kombat 1 days…
so i went to next level, tried to play the SSF4 cabs there, and i couldn’t even do the most basic quarter circle and shoryuken moves consistently on the joystick due to my 15 year absence from playing on a cabinet and using a joystick.
*the only thing i’ve been playing fighters with this whole time, is the ps2/ps3 console controller…and i’ve been postponing the inevitable for too long, which is getting an arcade style controller.

so, i was wondering if you guys can give me some advice on which one i should get and your opinions as too why.

first off, i should mention that since i’ve never gotten one before…i’m only looking for one thats for 150 dollars or less, since i’ll most likely end up breaking it in time before my left hand “calms down” and i don’t find myself exerting to much force on the stick from my lack of comfort with it in beginning to use one.

second, i need it for the ps2 console, not so much for the ps3.

now, i know that the good arcade controllers have this “square” cage or base for the joystick, located inside the controller…and that that makes a world of difference in being able to commit precise and consistent inputs for diagonal directions…i.e. low-blocking. that i know.

i also know that there are 2 different types of buttons on arcade controllers.
one type that sorta has the mechanics that console issued controllers have…you know that like,…where you have too exert a decent amount of pressure for your input to register. and the other type where you barely have to even tap it…and your inputs register…that are like touch sensitive.

i also know one can mod your arcade controller with different parts from different manufacturers, but not all controllers allow for customization. i know that.

well, anyway, i need a good stick for 150 bucks or less. for playing ps2 games. any advice on --which model, manufacturer, customizable parts, and modding it afterwards, and about why some sticks have input lag and what causes it–, is appreciated.

now, i have my eye on the HORI Real Arcade Pro stick version 3…since it seems to have everything i’m looking for.
-the fact that it has alot of base to the left of the stick, so i can rest my left hand on it.
-it has 8 buttons, which might have good response to touch sensitivity…i think?or so i’ve read from reviews.
-it has a reliable square cage for the stick.
but it says that it is for the ps3.

can a arcade stick that was made for the ps3 be used on a ps2 console?
or do i need some type of a ps3 to ps2 controller adapter?
i don’t know!
i’m 100% noobish at this!

lastly, i should mention the games i’m looking to play the stick with are generally “new school” fighters such as the Melty Blood, Guilty Gear, Arcana Heart, Fate/UC games.
games that require quick 123 type inputs and need the least amount of input lag from an arcade stick, as is possible for a 150 buck or less controller.

everyone, thanks in advance.
sorry to tech talk mods if i made a mistake in creating this thread. not sure where to post this.

2

To answer a few of your questions:

No, ps3 sticks do not work on ps3s. There are also no converters available that will do this. Your best bets are finding a hori rap1/2, both which will work on ps2. Otherwise you would need a custom or modded stick.

Since you are a noob to sticks, check out the sticky on arcade sticks in the newbie forum:
http://shoryuken.com/f322/srk-newbie-saikyo-dojo-arcade-stick-faq-read-before-asking-questions-231888/#post8700130

3

Okay, I’m gonna touch up on a few points here and there from the OP…

Starting off, any stick that has Japanese parts might be a good place to start. Sanwa and Seimitsu are popular Japanese brands that are used in many of today’s stick for fighting games all the current 2D-based fighting games today.

If you’re looking for a retail stick that works for PS3 out of the box with said high quality parts, you’ll want to buy any Mad Catz Tournament Edition stick… But then I read on further that…

Not many sticks these days support PS1 out of the box anymore. You can search for older sticks like Hori Tekken 5 stick or Namco arcade stick.

You’ll want to consider having someone mod a current gen stick to work for PS2. I prefer the route of dual-modding a first-party PS1 digital or analog controller. Padhacking PS1 pads what I did when I started arcade stick modding because I wanted to use a wired stick for Tatsunoko vs. Capcom (wired PS1 arcade stick with Gamecube Converter). The stick’s PCB having the PS1 controller being added needs to be common ground, of course.

We call this a “square gate”. Most Sanwa and Seimitsu sticks, as well as most stock sticks like Hori, Mad Catz, and Mayflash have sticks with square gates by default. Not all people prefer square gate, so they may switch over to octagonal gate (where there are eight “corners” for each direction) or maybe even circular gate.

Still keeping Seimitsu and Sanwa in mind, Seimitsu buttons are generally not sensitive to the touch, whereas Sanwa buttons are very sensitive. A matter of preference to each individual player, but personally, I like Sanwa OSBF/OSBN buttons a lot more. However, Sanwa LS-32 is my preferred stick over the Sanwa JLF.

If you want a Hori stick more catered for PS1, I’d suggest the Hori Tekken 5 stick modded with Sanwa parts. If you want it to work for PS3, just buy in inPin PS1/PS2 to PS3 converter off etokki.com.

As long as the PCB is common ground, then a PS1 controller can be added easily. Mad Catz SE and TE sticks are common ground, but generally, Hori stick are NOT common ground. However, this will require some arcade stick modding know-how. Find a good modder to fulfill your needs!

Yup, I suggest either a Mad Catz stick with PS1 controller added or a gutted Tekken 5 stick modded with PS1 pad with converter or added to PS360 PCB or ChImp SMD.

4

Moved to the newbie section. Also, read the stickies first.

5

@RoyalFlushTZ, yeah now that i think of it, since guilty gear has so many half circle moves, that it may be an octagonal gate that will suit me better, but definately not a circle gate.
and yup, sanwa buttons are must because i need all the sensitive to touch response i can get.
when you started talking about ps1 pads and stuff…you completely lost me.
can you explain that in a less technical way?
like are you modding ps1 hardware stuff to the hori button board or the stick or is it just some hardware stuff for the arcade stick to communicate better with the ps2 console?
i need to read your post over n over again since your talking waaaay over my head here.

6

I’d recommend sticking with a square gate. They are the arcade standard for a reason.

What he was talking about was pad hacking a PS1 pad, but unless you can solder or want to learn, I’d avoid that route.

The easiest and best thing for you to do is to find a Hori real arcade pro (HRAP) 2 for sale. HRAP1s are good too, but some people don’t like the button layout. Unless you get one of the special editions of these, you will need to swap out the buttons if you want arcade quality, but that isn’t difficult (no soldering required). Stock Tekken 5 sticks kind of suck and are a pain to mod. If you can find a modded one for sale, that’s an option too, I guess.

Otherwise, you’re going to need to consider a custom builder.

7

Yeah, an octogonal gate might look like it’ll make moves more lenient, but your execution may be slower as a result:
Joystick Controller - Joystick Engagements and Restrictors (scroll down to 8-way)

Games like Guilty gear or Blazblue have command normals, so trying to input diagonal directions on an octogonal gate will not always be quick and precise. Since you are going to spend time practicing stick anyway, I would go the extra mile.

8

Octagonal gates are easier to learn to do certain motions on - I started with one. However, square feels better once you know what you’re doing.

Get a Namco stick that someone has modded with Sanwa buttons and a JLF. Terrific quality and form factor (easy to carry to events), plus it’s PSX compatible in case you want to play anything that old. It also works with the vast majority of PS2 -> PS3 converters, as well as the Blaze Pro PS2/PS3 -> 360 converter.

Should run you about $80.

9

im not trollin…

i own a few sticks.

i use six axis custom with a jlf stick at the moment for whenever i get the chance to play hd remix on my bros ps3 and it feels good.

on my ps2 or xbox i use either a tournament edition stick (jlf), namco stick (dont know what stick) or a street fighter anniversary edition stick (happ style knock off i believe)

to the main point, on my ps2 & xbox gaming, the 15th anniversary stick feels the best, i find you have to exert a bit more force on the stick but its good, it feels a lot more like the cabs back in th day. the buttons are not as good as the sanwas or the namcos, but you can change them, or wait till they crap out, thats the only time im changing mine.

my execution is uniform using all the sticks. but in my opinion, on ps2 the anniversary stick i get that feeling that its easier to execute.

it could just be the old school bat top feeling, but i dont think it is, because on hd remix i prefer the jlf stick.

i cant comment on seimetsus as i have never used their buttons or sticks. lack of cash, but thats definately my next buy, an seimetsu stick.

so try some sticks out, maybe some members here live near you, maybe ask them if you can come over with your ps2 and try their sticks on some games. or may be your boys have some sticks you can try.

im no expert, but dont get sold on a stick just by reading about them. try them.

10

snag a street fighter anniversary joystick or a namco.

11

I’ve never used a stick myself, but I wanna give it a try. I made a few calls and it looks like the only ones offered at stores near me are the WWE stick and the Tekken 6 bundled stick, which I think I heard wasn’t all that great. Judging from what I read in the Sticky(no pun intended), I’m gonna go for a SFIV TE stick from Mad Catz. I never really liked Mad Catz as a company, considering products I’ve purchased from them in the past have been very unreliable, but I guess I’ll just have to give it one more try. Especially since that sale is still going on right now on their website.

12

that link you posted is amazing. i tried finding some info on stick hardware on iplaywinner, but i found nothing. but this link is a godsend.

13

the reason i like the Hori arcade stick if the length of the base of the controller to the left of the joystick.
i can see i’ll be very comfortable resting my hand there.
which leads me to…

yeah, my brain is accustomed to that OG bat top sticks on those SF2 cabinets of the early to mid 90s.
i don’t really feel comfortable with those large ball tops with a short shaft…
since, when i used to play sf2, i would hold the joystick between my middle finger and my ring finger, with the first two fingers of my hand and thumb actually holding the bat top, and the top of my ring and little finger supporting the shaft.
yeah, i know, it may be a weird way of holding it…but i found that allowed me the most amount of precision movement.

i think i’m gonna get a hori stick customized…with sanwa parts, but the joystick itself is gonna be ball top, but a ball top that is smaller than the average ball top, with a shaft that’s lightweight but long as i can get one thats still sanwa.

14

@Guilty, did you get that thing I sent you? :stuck_out_tongue:

15

Indeed I did! You are one thorough hippo xP Thank you very much. It helped out a lot with control issues for making the transition to a stick. I think I’ll have a much easier time now. I was really worried about adjustments I might have to make since I don’t normally use a stick.

16

@ axl_master…

let us know what stick you get and why.

17

i’m getting a modded/customized t5 hori by RoyalFlushTZ.
he’s even does artwork for the stick, i picked the art though.
everything i asked for from a stick in my op, he’s doing for me.
including the badass artwork n design.

i need a stick mostly for guilty gear.
i go to sessions now, and to face up against the absolutely beastly players that frequent those nyc sessions…i’m gonna need a high quality stick…cuz a ps2 controller is fine against the cpu…even on maniac difficulty, but not against those pot monsters.

its really frustrating to do something like, for example, using Jam from ggac:
236S>P>236236H…only to have that godforsaken shitty crappy ps2 D-pad not register the 236236H, and read 22H instead…the last thing you want in this world is being that close to your opponent and your Jam instead of doing 236236H, is now stuck in 22H animations!!!i’m not even mentioning how many times 623K fails to register and your Jam ends up doing 22K that close to your opponent Xo
talking 'bout wrong place wrong time wrong move worst case scenarios.

do you know how frustrating it is to play against extremely high level GG players with a ps2 controller???

do you how many misreads of inputs that bullshit ps2 D-pad will commit while trying to pull off extremely complex combos on high level players???
uh,…no thanks to continuing to play GG:Acore with a console controller.
you just can’t do half the stuff on a ps2 controller that you can on a good stick.

now, that i think about it,…i don’t know why i didn’t get a stick sooner.
any stick user knows 4 a fact the superiority of stick versus console controller for fighters…but especially guilty gear players. because there are so many half circle inputs and complex “tied” inputs…

i dare you to try to do axl’s
j.63214S>frc>8>63214S on a ps2 controller…
I DARE YOU!!! lol. and you can forget about doing a few aerial mix ups inserted between those half circle moves.

i dare you to do Millia’s
2H>214S>RC>2141236H on a ps2 D-pad…even if you try to use the analog stick…its still not going to register.
hell, just simply doing 2141236H alone in training mode is hellish…especially if millia(or any gg character) is facing right. since doing quarter-circle or half circle movements with your character facing right is much harder than doing it if your character is facing left.
cuz your thumb is at a diagonal that, well, you know, we have all been there, done that…i don’t need to explain

you know how many times secret garden will come out instead of Winger? HUH???
and don’t anybody post saying …“you know, you can cancel secret garden with just 5D”…yeah, i know that…but thats not the point, the point is…its too late…that 1 second of an opening between a dropped Winger input,a incorrectly read secret garden, and a cancelling of secret garden, is all a high level player needs to DESTROy Me or YoU 'X0
all because the ps2 controller is terrible at reading your inputs and registering what you are inputting.

ugh.
the disgusting nature of a console controller misreading your inputs…
makes me naseous.

i’ve had enough of dropped combos, incorrectly registered/read inputs,…due to the horror that is the console controller.
ps2,ps3,xbox,xbox360,gamecube, wii…F U 4 giving us mitt sticks i.e. your terribly designed controllers.

why couldn’t companies just copy the greatest console controller ever made…
the SNES controller.
D-Pad perfection.
you could even do multiple 360 degree rotations on that shit, no problem. no failure of reading your inputs whatsoever. Zangief’s 360 piledrivers came out with more consistency and accuracy than on the cabinets of old that used the happ sticks with bat tops. the zangief 360 piledriver was easier to pull off on the SNES pad than it ever was on the cabs.
A faultless d-pad.
just sublime craftmanship.

i dare anyone to face off against actual team spooky members at melty blood with a ps2 controller in your hand.
i dare you!!!

LOL! anzhar, you brought out my “pent up for too long” rant against sony+every other console controller maker, right out me.

i don’t expect a stick to magically raise my gameplay up just by using one,…i just expect it to work for me instead of working against me, in regards to inputting commands during high level play against the beasts and pot monsters out there in local nyc gatherings…thats all.

18

can’t wait to hear what you think about your transfer to joystick.