Necalli General Thread: Necalli enters the Tournament!

[Korbidon]

I’ve been playing Birdie up until I decided to try Necalli on a whim today.

The FUUUUCK. Necalli is so fucking GOOD. Combos for days, strong pressure, strong mixups, heavy damage, amazing V-trigger cancel combos, good mobility options with forward dash, Disc’s Guidance through fireballs and divekick to mix up your approach… As soon as I learned his pressure strings and combos I was just destroying.

He is extremely satisfying to play. Get a Nash in the corner and stand jab him to death for fun times.

[Norse_Fury]

For hard survival hp.dp gets me to 33 but bison isn’t havin any of that shit. Was having trouble with cammy but she falls for the constant dp trick. If they don’t fall for it you can use back up and sweep and back up discs guidance for easy damage. Bison just don’t give a fuck tho.

[The_Illuminati]

Dropped Nash for Necallli and I’m loving it.

[Norse_Fury]

Good choice

[The_Illuminati]

God, Necalli is so good. I never feel overwhelmed by my opponents pressure. Finally.

[Necrotrophic]

played on stream at wb… meant to dp got super

[AreEyeSeaKay]

Yeah I saw that… Man I felt bad. Spooky thought it was going to hit and got hype, but I figured you meant to DP.

Good stuff though! Don’t let that moment effect your next matches.

[LockM]

I need to vent a bit about Necalli, i constantly hear people say how he’s “the best character in the game with vtrigger”, whihc is absolute garbadge. He ahs the exact same problems durng v-triger as outside of it. What makes it dangerous is whe he has meter stocked and the ability to cancel any normal in vT and do big damage, especially with Super.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to play neutral with Necalli, his normals are so garbadge in range and speed and you are unable to cancel them into a reliable special, you either need charge or meter and even then ex wont always connect.
Arguably his best poke which is cr.mk doesn’t combo into lp slash from longer ranges. Characters with good walkspeed and pokes own him free, thewy ONLY way to get in then is by jumping or dashing, dashing is easily stopped and jumping is a way of relying on the inabilty of the opponent to react and stop it…basically luck.

Backrise absolutely kills everything he does unless the opponent is already in the corner. All these fancy meaty setups are worthless. You have to guess twice, guess the backrise and guess if they will do a reversal.
No way you can react to the backrise and be in time to change your setup, and if you can, you still get garbadge pressure. I pride myself on having pretty good reactions but i cannot do it, at all.

his light confirms are garbadge, only when you have EX you get something otherwise you have to be pointblank for dp, which again doesn’t give any pressure afterwards so dont even bother with it.

why does he have 5 moves that crushcounter and 2 of them are worthless and actually detrimental to his damage output. You cannot combo after a raw st.hp/cr.hp CC, except a st.mp after CC st.hp from pointblank. Only in the corner you get a measely lp or ex dp or st.lk. There is also no reason to ever use them as a frametrap as they are negative and on counterhit you damage potential is halted. You can use a delayed cancel that gets something better if it is a CC like st.hp CC xx ex DG or cancel into a dp. Point is, why?
The only reason i can think of is that cr.hp CC is meant for anti air purposes so you can get a bit more damage, but overall i think Capcom doesn’t want you to use st.hp or cr.hp as a “pressure” tool, as a meaty attack or frametrap into potential big damage. The want you to use st.mk, cr.mp and condition people with stomps so that eventually you cna sneka in dashes to egt close or a command throw.

Divekick is useless, even against most normal AA’s, you can;t even use it as a bait to make AA’s whiff like a DP and punish on the ground or an AA normal, as your pokes are too slow or not enough range to punish.
And don’t expect to use his divekick to stuff AA’s, its not reliable in the slightest for that, it’s gets beaten more often than not.

It’s not all doom and gloom:
Necalli his damage is great, he has a good dash, very good reversal/anti air. “safe” specials for chip, a command grab to make people want to press buttons or jump, v-skill is great in fireball matchups. Vtrigger is good for the fact he can cancel normals into it for more damage. Aside from that…not really.

I like Necalli but for a game that is so focused on neutral he does very bad and the pressure where he should excel at, he can hardly apply after a knockdown when people are backrising. You have to rely on hard reads and risky jumps and dashes which make shis approach very very linear and predictable. His command grabs are not good outside of the corner as you again cannot apply good pressure from it midscreen and the damage is negligible.

As the game goes on Necalli will without a doubt be considered worse and worse.
I rather play Cammy or Laura at this point.

*I don’t expect people to agree with me

[Muttonman]

Eh, his divekick is pretty solid at beating a lot of anti-airs. And he actually can play footsies in VT due to being able to throw out a st.mp buffered into MP Slash. But he gets absolutely shellacked by strong neutral characters such as Chun.

Basically while his cr.mk has good range, it pushes his hurtbox way forward so it loses to a lot of pokes and there’s plenty of anti-low moves in the game. His st.mp doesn’t combo into anything without charge or CA at the ranges you want to use it, and his cr.mp has similar issues to cr.mk. St.hk is too damn slow to be that useful in footsies and too easy to whiff punish.

[dobiqwolf]

@LockM I am getting a better results when fighting since I realized something, when in VT his dash speed is insane, you can stay outside the range of your opponent then dash to be in their face, this compensate for his lack of range as once that close you can dictate the flow of the fight.

[FierceKick]

I need to vent a bit about Necalli, i constantly hear people say how he’s “the best character in the game with vtrigger”, whihc is absolute garbadge. He ahs the exact same problems durng v-triger as outside of it. What makes it dangerous is whe he has meter stocked and the ability to cancel any normal in vT and do big damage, especially with Super. - He becomes more mobile in v trigger(faster dash, walk & jump), his medium punches have more range(standing and crouching), and his V skill becomes faster making harder for the opponent to react.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to play neutral with Necalli, his normals are so garbadge in range and speed and you are unable to cancel them into a reliable special, you either need charge or meter and even then ex wont always connect.
Arguably his best poke which is cr.mk doesn’t combo into lp slash from longer ranges. Characters with good walkspeed and pokes own him free, thewy ONLY way to get in then is by jumping or dashing, dashing is easily stopped and jumping is a way of relying on the inabilty of the opponent to react and stop it…basically luck. *** - It’s true, he doesn’t have the best neutral game. His pokes are average at best and he has no easy way of getting in. But he has a tool you didn’t mention when playing neutral, and thats his V-skill. His V-skill is crucial in the footsies game when playing against characters that excel in that area. Landing the v-skill is important because it knocks down, it gives Necalli a chance to advance and builds V meter. Consider his sweep as well. Its faster than his CR. MK and will win trades against mediums.***

Backrise absolutely kills everything he does unless the opponent is already in the corner. All these fancy meaty setups are worthless. You have to guess twice, guess the backrise and guess if they will do a reversal.
No way you can react to the backrise and be in time to change your setup, and if you can, you still get garbadge pressure. I pride myself on having pretty good reactions but i cannot do it, at all. *** - Mostly all of Necallis combos(and command/regular grab) leave him in a position where you can’t immediately attack again. If the opponent back rises, they sacrifice their current position for a get-out-of-jail-free card as they don’t have to deal with any mix-ups. Once cornered, Necalli will be directly on top of the opponent after any combo or grab. I always assume they will use normal recovery and go for meaty set ups. Worst case scenario is they back recovery. ***

his light confirms are garbadge, only when you have EX you get something otherwise you have to be pointblank for dp, which again doesn’t give any pressure afterwards so dont even bother with it.*** - Light confirms aren’t much of a threat as you have mention. However, once in V trigger, its decent. ***

why does he have 5 moves that crushcounter and 2 of them are worthless and actually detrimental to his damage output. You cannot combo after a raw st.hp/cr.hp CC, except a st.mp after CC st.hp from pointblank. Only in the corner you get a measely lp or ex dp or st.lk. There is also no reason to ever use them as a frametrap as they are negative and on counterhit you damage potential is halted. You can use a delayed cancel that gets something better if it is a CC like st.hp CC xx ex DG or cancel into a dp. Point is, why?
The only reason i can think of is that cr.hp CC is meant for anti air purposes so you can get a bit more damage, but overall i think Capcom doesn’t want you to use st.hp or cr.hp as a “pressure” tool, as a meaty attack or frametrap into potential big damage. The want you to use st.mk, cr.mp and condition people with stomps so that eventually you cna sneka in dashes to egt close or a command throw.*** - His ST./CR. HP have very specific uses. You mainly want to use them(meaty) if you think your opponent will jump immediately on wake up. If they do, you’ll get his bread and butter combo if you cancel the HP into medium stomp. If its counter hit, then they’ll get a soft knockdown by the stomp but they’re going to have to deal with the mix up as Necalli will be right on top of them. This is a powerful strategy after an EX command grab reset.***

Divekick is useless, even against most normal AA’s, you can;t even use it as a bait to make AA’s whiff like a DP and punish on the ground or an AA normal, as your pokes are too slow or not enough range to punish.
And don’t expect to use his divekick to stuff AA’s, its not reliable in the slightest for that, it’s gets beaten more often than not.*** - would be too OP if his dive kick easily stuffed grounded AAs consistently.***

Necalli is a great character. Follow PR Balrog on the CFN. Hes had a really good understanding of how to use the character since day one(cracked beta?).

[otakugamer223]

I think LockM has good points though. For the record I think Necalli is a good character, not on the level of chun/Nash but can be very effective. But many people just see the damage and think he’s super godlike. It’s true he has a weak mixup, weak neutral game, and many holes in his game.

I look at him sort of like Q in 3S, or Hakan, or KOF13 chin,etc.: your goal is to get to VT as soon as possible, and defend yourself properly and get any damage in the mean time, how ever you can. Once you’ve done that it’s like you’ve evolved a Pokemon and now become much scarier; better mixup, better pressure (HK stomp being + and able to convert better), better damage, better dash. Still not a guaranteed win but you become a much better character.

Also I think it’s pretty much impossible to react to back flips, by the time you react the timing is all screwed up. The best you can do is know the setups, find out if the player goes for backflips or standard wakeup more and then do it. Most of the cast has to worrt about that. However I’ve been able to find meaties that have been able to get both. Eg sweep dash St.fierce meaties both, a CC CR.fierce HK stomp, dash St.fierce meaties both. I’m sure there are more.

[LockM]

I’m just pissed after playing for a bit and might’ve exaggerated some things but that is overall how i feel. I’m also probably trying to play him in a way he’s not supposed to be played. I’ll just grind it out and hopefully see some improvement otherwise he’s going to take the backseat and i’ll accept he’s not the chararcter for me. Which is wierd as i see a LOT of similarities with Cody and Yun in Necalli…

[Necrotrophic]

I need to vent a bit about Necalli, i constantly hear people say how he’s “the best character in the game with vtrigger”, whihc is absolute garbadge. He ahs the exact same problems durng v-triger as outside of it. What makes it dangerous is whe he has meter stocked and the ability to cancel any normal in vT and do big damage, especially with Super.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to play neutral with Necalli, his normals are so garbadge in range and speed and you are unable to cancel them into a reliable special, you either need charge or meter and even then ex wont always connect.
Arguably his best poke which is cr.mk doesn’t combo into lp slash from longer ranges. Characters with good walkspeed and pokes own him free, thewy ONLY way to get in then is by jumping or dashing, dashing is easily stopped and jumping is a way of relying on the inabilty of the opponent to react and stop it…basically luck.

Backrise absolutely kills everything he does unless the opponent is already in the corner. All these fancy meaty setups are worthless. You have to guess twice, guess the backrise and guess if they will do a reversal.
No way you can react to the backrise and be in time to change your setup, and if you can, you still get garbadge pressure. I pride myself on having pretty good reactions but i cannot do it, at all.

his light confirms are garbadge, only when you have EX you get something otherwise you have to be pointblank for dp, which again doesn’t give any pressure afterwards so dont even bother with it.

why does he have 5 moves that crushcounter and 2 of them are worthless and actually detrimental to his damage output. You cannot combo after a raw st.hp/cr.hp CC, except a st.mp after CC st.hp from pointblank. Only in the corner you get a measely lp or ex dp or st.lk. There is also no reason to ever use them as a frametrap as they are negative and on counterhit you damage potential is halted. You can use a delayed cancel that gets something better if it is a CC like st.hp CC xx ex DG or cancel into a dp. Point is, why?
The only reason i can think of is that cr.hp CC is meant for anti air purposes so you can get a bit more damage, but overall i think Capcom doesn’t want you to use st.hp or cr.hp as a “pressure” tool, as a meaty attack or frametrap into potential big damage. The want you to use st.mk, cr.mp and condition people with stomps so that eventually you cna sneka in dashes to egt close or a command throw.

Divekick is useless, even against most normal AA’s, you can;t even use it as a bait to make AA’s whiff like a DP and punish on the ground or an AA normal, as your pokes are too slow or not enough range to punish.
And don’t expect to use his divekick to stuff AA’s, its not reliable in the slightest for that, it’s gets beaten more often than not.

It’s not all doom and gloom:
Necalli his damage is great, he has a good dash, very good reversal/anti air. “safe” specials for chip, a command grab to make people want to press buttons or jump, v-skill is great in fireball matchups. Vtrigger is good for the fact he can cancel normals into it for more damage. Aside from that…not really.

I like Necalli but for a game that is so focused on neutral he does very bad and the pressure where he should excel at, he can hardly apply after a knockdown when people are backrising. You have to rely on hard reads and risky jumps and dashes which make shis approach very very linear and predictable. His command grabs are not good outside of the corner as you again cannot apply good pressure from it midscreen and the damage is negligible.

As the game goes on Necalli will without a doubt be considered worse and worse.
I rather play Cammy or Laura at this point.

*I don’t expect people to agree with me

I actually agree with you. I played him exclusively since the beta, when the game came out I got to gold with him very quickly and played him a bunch at winter brawl.

Its not that hes weak at footsies. Its that he doesnt have them (except when hes in vt or has super stocked). He is balanced entirely around his super. all of his buttons have glaring weaknesses to the point where if you wanna play him, you’re better off avoiding the neutral game completely.

But let me say something controversial. We all know his footsies suck… But you know what also sucks? His rushdown. Hes terrible at it. Everything pushes him back too far to maintain pressure, his dash is good but honestly pretty easy to deal with.

Hes high mid tier in vtrigger, otherwise hes bottom tier IMO. I have had such a huge 180 on this character that I am dropping him. If hes rushdown, then hes all hard reads.

His command grab is straight up terrible, backroll kills pressure. The only thing he has is big combos into super.

I cant even think of a matchup besides Sim where I think he actually wins.

[Muttonman]

I need to vent a bit about Necalli, i constantly hear people say how he’s “the best character in the game with vtrigger”, whihc is absolute garbadge. He ahs the exact same problems durng v-triger as outside of it. What makes it dangerous is whe he has meter stocked and the ability to cancel any normal in vT and do big damage, especially with Super.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to play neutral with Necalli, his normals are so garbadge in range and speed and you are unable to cancel them into a reliable special, you either need charge or meter and even then ex wont always connect.
Arguably his best poke which is cr.mk doesn’t combo into lp slash from longer ranges. Characters with good walkspeed and pokes own him free, thewy ONLY way to get in then is by jumping or dashing, dashing is easily stopped and jumping is a way of relying on the inabilty of the opponent to react and stop it…basically luck.

Backrise absolutely kills everything he does unless the opponent is already in the corner. All these fancy meaty setups are worthless. You have to guess twice, guess the backrise and guess if they will do a reversal.
No way you can react to the backrise and be in time to change your setup, and if you can, you still get garbadge pressure. I pride myself on having pretty good reactions but i cannot do it, at all.

his light confirms are garbadge, only when you have EX you get something otherwise you have to be pointblank for dp, which again doesn’t give any pressure afterwards so dont even bother with it.

why does he have 5 moves that crushcounter and 2 of them are worthless and actually detrimental to his damage output. You cannot combo after a raw st.hp/cr.hp CC, except a st.mp after CC st.hp from pointblank. Only in the corner you get a measely lp or ex dp or st.lk. There is also no reason to ever use them as a frametrap as they are negative and on counterhit you damage potential is halted. You can use a delayed cancel that gets something better if it is a CC like st.hp CC xx ex DG or cancel into a dp. Point is, why?
The only reason i can think of is that cr.hp CC is meant for anti air purposes so you can get a bit more damage, but overall i think Capcom doesn’t want you to use st.hp or cr.hp as a “pressure” tool, as a meaty attack or frametrap into potential big damage. The want you to use st.mk, cr.mp and condition people with stomps so that eventually you cna sneka in dashes to egt close or a command throw.

Divekick is useless, even against most normal AA’s, you can;t even use it as a bait to make AA’s whiff like a DP and punish on the ground or an AA normal, as your pokes are too slow or not enough range to punish.
And don’t expect to use his divekick to stuff AA’s, its not reliable in the slightest for that, it’s gets beaten more often than not.

It’s not all doom and gloom:
Necalli his damage is great, he has a good dash, very good reversal/anti air. “safe” specials for chip, a command grab to make people want to press buttons or jump, v-skill is great in fireball matchups. Vtrigger is good for the fact he can cancel normals into it for more damage. Aside from that…not really.

I like Necalli but for a game that is so focused on neutral he does very bad and the pressure where he should excel at, he can hardly apply after a knockdown when people are backrising. You have to rely on hard reads and risky jumps and dashes which make shis approach very very linear and predictable. His command grabs are not good outside of the corner as you again cannot apply good pressure from it midscreen and the damage is negligible.

As the game goes on Necalli will without a doubt be considered worse and worse.
I rather play Cammy or Laura at this point.

*I don’t expect people to agree with me

I actually agree with you. I played him exclusively since the beta, when the game came out I got to gold with him very quickly and played him a bunch at winter brawl.

Its not that hes weak at footsies. Its that he doesnt have them (except when hes in vt or has super stocked). He is balanced entirely around his super. all of his buttons have glaring weaknesses to the point where if you wanna play him, you’re better off avoiding the neutral game completely.

But let me say something controversial. We all know his footsies suck… But you know what also sucks? His rushdown. Hes terrible at it. Everything pushes him back too far to maintain pressure, his dash is good but honestly pretty easy to deal with.

Hes high mid tier in vtrigger, otherwise hes bottom tier IMO. I have had such a huge 180 on this character that I am dropping him. If hes rushdown, then hes all hard reads.

His command grab is straight up terrible, backroll kills pressure. The only thing he has is big combos into super.

I cant even think of a matchup besides Sim where I think he actually wins.

I don’t quite agree. His EX Command grab is pretty awesome. You get less damage that other EX Command Grabs, but the fact that you can go into a reset or sweep gives it probably the best mixup out of any of them. You also get to maintain pressure after a point blank st.lk and if you do Potemkin Buster an EX Grab you can also do so after two lights or a st.mk.

That said, I’m also going to be branching out from Necalli. Probably going to be doing some Nash as well as I’ve been experimenting with his oki post-MP target combo. Just want to play a character that isn’t reliant on a DP to anti-air.

[Necrotrophic]

I think this is where we differ in our interpretation of necalli, I always save my super for the biggest damage I can get.

[Muttonman]

I think this is where we differ in our interpretation of necalli, I always save my super for the biggest damage I can get.

I’m just a big fan of forcing them to eat two 50/50s in a row, which is what EX Grab lets you loop. EX Grab -> sweep -> dash. Then you either meaty with st.lk, a throw, or a HP/EX Grab. If you went with the st.lk and they blocked you can go frametrap with st.mk or LP/EX Grab. If you go with the EX Grab you can do it all over again.

Now, the big problem is that he can’t reliably keep pressure on after a hit outside of the corner. Nash can with his Wind Shear TC and has his Sonic Boom to allow a new approach. Ken stays right in your face with an HK Tatsu and has MK Tatsu setups. R.Mika and Laura have resets that leave them in your face. Everyone else either has some sort of setup or just plain good neutral.

I think Necalli is the scariest character when he has you cornered. He even gets setups off his LP Grab there. But if you don’t get pushed to the corner by his combo ender he’s not that scary.

I think they could fix much of his neutral problem by extending st.mp’s hitbox down a bit and increasing the forward hitbox on EX Stomp so it reliably combos off a whiff punish or poke. Either that or really increase the downward hitbox on st.mk so you can use the TC as a whiff punish.

[jasonC]

Somebody told me last night to use more ex-stomps. I’m seeing value in it, especially in mid-screen, just for the sake of pushing the opponent to the corner. Even with full meter, use ex-stomps instead of super to corner carry and still be in dat ass and give your opponent less meter.

[Muttonman]

Somebody told me last night to use more ex-stomps. I’m seeing value in it, especially in mid-screen, just for the sake of pushing the opponent to the corner. Even with full meter, use ex-stomps instead of super to corner carry and still be in dat ass and give your opponent less meter.

EX Slash is way more corner carry

[AreEyeSeaKay]

I think ex grab is way too important to not use. Sure, super damage is important, but ex throw can scare people into opening up. PR Rog and kazunoko both use it regularly to keep people honest.

I notice both like to dash st mk early. Once people fear hitting buttons, the ex grab comes out.