Jumping FP > Crouching FP > MK stomp > crouching MP > V-Trigger > standing FP > HK stomp > Critical Art ETC
540 damage, 590 stun
Disc has such great corner carry that you often get the meaty anyways because theyâre in the corner.
Do you get a guaranteed st.lk meaty on both quickrise and backroll after a comboed sweep? Youâre +25/30 on quick/back so I worry mainly about range here, as the super meaty st.lk is the best tool in his arsenal for letting you do a grab or a strike after it.
On that frametrap: even spaced perfectly it loses to cr.lk mash so be careful. On lower profile jabs it also loses such as Chunâs or Cammyâs because you canât tag her extended hurtbox (which is how it beats jabs). Longer range crouching jabs will also beats it such as Rashid and Lauraâs with a counterhit as they go well beyond their hutboxes. I think thatâs it though; loses to most cr.lk and 4 characterâs cr.lp assuming the spacing is right. Needs testing.
Really good point on the target combo; I have to start doing that in footsies! Probably a way better whiff punish that just going for the st.mp!
his tc is an amazing counter poke tool. it works vs a lot of mikas pokes. its hard to recall because its closed
In regards to this little tidbit of information, what is the reason you ever want to do anything else than the hp version? I donât know if the data changed from beta3 to beta4 for his command grabs, but assuming it hasnât.
HP does slightly more damage than the LP version, they all have the same startup which is 8 frames, is it the range then that makes the LP version usefull?
lp lets you land in front if youâre holding up trying to jump in and âcrossupâ
Yup. You can only use HP point blank for when youâre expecting them to do a late tech or on their wakeup. LP outranges all normal throws, MP can be done off some cross up ticks, and EX has the best range of all
Mutton since youâre familiar with frame data youâd be the person to ask. Would it be possible in theory, after an ex command grab > a normal button reset to land a regular command grab on the opponentâs first vulnerable landing frame from a tech flip?
Has Necallis OH always been a CC?
i think so
Anybody else notice his voice sounds like itâs been reworked a little in this video? Itâs particularly noticeable during his stuttering intro line. Seems deeper, a little more extrapolated.
Itâs possible rather than re-recording with the voice actorâs sessions they pitch shifted what they had and slowed it down a little. Sounds much better and more befitting his design.
I personally used this in beta 3 with ex grab.
s.lp reset gives you a few pathways. If you hold up forward immediately and land in with a j.mk, you can continue pressure from the front side. If you walk forward slightly before jumping forward, you can gain a nice little cross-up scenario. If you train them to identify both setups and invoke a tendency to block, you just walk forward and sneak in an lp or mp command throw.
To add another option, you can s.lp reset, up forward jump and opt for a dive kick. Not very effective as you rarely get anything from it outside of V-Trigger, but it can flub some defence attempts if they anticipate a cross-up.
Another option I got some mileage from was a s.lp reset and then ripping into df.hp (overhead). This sometimes resulted in a raw hit, or in some cases a CC which allows you to stem into the usual. Particularly useful in the corner.
Additionally, after the s.lp reset you can walk forward a plug them with a meaty s.mk and use that as a basis to then press c or s.mp. Use the s.mk that proceeds the c or s.mp as a hit confirm and cancel into lp or EX slash/stomp if you eyeball a connect.
Another filthy gimmick I tinkered with was a side swap after the s.lp reset by using lp or mp slash (intended whiff) and then continued pressure stemmed from s.mk, or simply command throw.
Naturally these are very dependent on your opponentâs tendencies. After EX grab you can obviously forego all this and just take your free juggle damage, but sometimes a successful reset will gain you more damage and extend your offensive momentum, which is a major piece of Necalliâs game (imo). Itâs also ideal to leave such options in your trick bag and only pull them out every now and then when things are perhaps getting a little desperate. Opting for resets and showing such cards too often can often be to oneâs detriment so itâs probably wise not to rely on them a great deal.
[quote=âLockM, post:1225, topic:175902â]
Most definitely. HP grabâs range is abysmally short - itâs borderline comical. I think the only real world use I found for it was aerial reset situations where on their landing I was overlapping with my opponent and it would reach. You can train some people to anticipate this as a go-to option and simply stop doing it and bait out reversals, or switch to a meaty s.mk (to confirm into any options this may present) or s.hp to CC a button press or whatever else they may try (throw attempt, etc).
Iâd like to think in the final game we may see some subtle invuln frames on say, the hp version (especially considering how close we need to get to use it) but at this point I think that might be a bit too greedy. A character packing a solid frame trap game with a great reversal ALSO having a command grab is a fine deal on its own.
Iâm just using the frame data @gilley put together
Iâm wondering if you can get a super meaty st.lk after an air reset. I generally go for a late cr.hp xx HK Stomp if Iâm in VT, mixed up with just a reset to meaty strike/throw but I havenât explored it enough
558 damage/620 stun on counter. Sucks to be Cammy since any blocked Cannon Spike is a free jump in from every character.
This should work equally well on a st.hk CCH; same damage, builds VT if you werenât at full and is way faster. 405 damage meterless on a CCH if you end on a DP (so corner only probably); same damage if you can combo into EX Stomps midscreen. Gets you an extra 45-60 stun over using the CA. You can trade 10 damage (395) and go into EX Disc over HK Stomp as well for the corner carry, or go down to 383 if you do it meterless with HP Disc (all assuming a CH, subtract 18 damage from non-CH combos).
As Gamogo pointed out jab is probably the best reset button frames wise. What i was getting at is if its possible to reliably force a jump or a reversal from a reset (with the threat of a command grab). I have no clue how jumps work in this game though. If we can overlap the 8th frame of a fierce command grab with the first vulnerable frame post landing it could be *something. I just donât know if that is possible though because I donât recall how fast they tech flip after being reset nor do i know how many recovery frames jumps have and their properties.
You can always jump out of a command grab
Right but if command grab was landing on a frame where it was faster than buttons and regular throw, it would have to be jumped (or reversalâd). I did forget that backdash is also an option so eh.
You always get meaty s.LK, but off a backroll from the edge of sweep range youâre not point blank, so you meaty from a few steps out. Here I chucked most of that list into a vid: