BUT DOES IT BEAT MY CROUCHING FIERCE ??? I dont think you quite understand the videos point. The pressure you get off the Ex stomps is basically a guessing game for the enemy. Guess wrong you get stunned and lose 80% of your hp … guess right and well you survive to fight another day.
Cr Fierce stuffs every normal off ex stomp. I just did not want to record 8 times the same scenario and show that it stuffs every option. So if you read they are going to poke you then you simply crouch fierce and deal 80% of their life.
the Video also shows that they cannot use v-trigger against it / dragon punch or any other tactic. It has a counter to every situation it requires both you and your opponent to make the correct read… basically what street fighter is all about.
I guess your just not understanding the concept of the scenario. Just saying “Well if you CR MK and they CR MK they will beat u this setup sux”
“well if I CR FP and they CR MK I win and basically end the round”
You basically have an option for everything they do it just requires a read. Is he going to block high then cr mk or cr mp leads to stun. Will he block low then forward fp can lead to stun or keep the pressure. Is he going to counter poke then CR FP leads to stun. Is he going to jump then jumping mp leads to a reset situation and still almost stun. Is he going to defend against your low poke then command grab him and reset the situation. is he going to v-reversal then ex command throw him out of it and continue to pressure for the stun.
It covers every option and is a reset setup that’s the point.
He’s one of those characters I watch vicariously, like Abel or Yun, because I’d actually be garbage playing these characters, but I love the visuals and think they’re generally awesome characters.
Sorry I’ve just realized this is clearly something I shouldn’t be getting involved with so I’m going to back out now. Nice video, try posting it on Reddit.
I have tested it extensively … you can see it in the video that it stuffs cr mp it also stuffs cr mk and sweep and stand fierce. So ya maybe you should do that. If it were street fighter 4 it wouldnt work but this is street fighter 5 with a priority system on normals. FIERCE > MEDIUM > LIGHT
Instead of TALKING and claiming it doesnt work go yourself into training mode and TRY it for yourself ?? lol
cr.hp is 9f. Ex stomps are +2. So you are equal with 7f moves (and will stuff mediums) and lose to any 6f or better move. I’m fairly certain every character in the game can stuff that shit.
cr.mk is 8f, which means you’re trading with 6f mediums and losing to 5f moves. I’d much rather look for the cr.mp frametrap, especially if it’s in range to combo to MK stomps on CH. Once they’re scared of that you can start using slower normals such as your overhead or command throw.
You misunderstand what the priority system does, it only means in a trade scenario the stronger normal wins, not that a fierce will always stuff weaker normals. A jab would stuff all normals I that video, except a crouch.mp or jab.
TeoH over in the Cammy thread there’s a match video vs a necalli. If that’s you come on man use that v trigger! Necalli is like 30% of a character without it.
Yep thats why I put the cr mp in there as well I just simply used the cr mk for dramatic effect really. I mean you can clearly see it connects with both cr mp or mk its not only one of them. I do both in the video. Again yes they can stuff it but I mean really what are they getting if they happen to guess right ? a 2-3 hit combo off a cr mp ? or two random lightkicks ? but what you get for guessing right is MASSIVELY in your favor their punish vs your reward is not even in the same cosmos. Your reward ends matches. Their reward lets them live and deals little damage.
but now that you say that I am going to test it normally what your saying with the frame data would be the case except that in sf5 theres a priority system to normals where the heavier button actually beats the lighter button. If my setup stops lights as well than it would definitely be to the new priority normal system in sf 5. Does reversal invincible dp work ? yes obv but thats also their risk and if im blocking instead then get bopped.
Also I did test this same setup against LK tatsu and it stuffed the tatsu as well. I will test against lights just too see if it does in fact stuff or if the priority normals system allows me to stuff lights.
But unlike the others you definitely understand the reason for the setup. And yes obviously the cr mp version is better. Perhaps I shoulda just used cr mp instead of showing cr mk was an option. Again was used for the effect.
The new priority system doesn’t matter if their light/medium hits first. If it was a trade, yes the new priority system lets the heavy win, but if they hit you with something faster before your attack even comes out it loses every time.
Oh yea cheers for the link. That is me, but it’s certainly not a good showing, I picked Necalli up at the start of that beta because Karin wasn’t available yet, and that’s an early match. Struggling with the buttons and didn’t know my ranges.
Not that I actually won any games against Alioune that beta mind, I mean he’s clearly better than me.
I’m responding to your statement about using cr.hp here; it’s a pretty terrible option because it loses to so very much; if you think they’ll press a button doing cr.mp xx mk stomp is just a tremendously better option. I honestly found myself preferring to use his Berserker’s Barrage here; LP is a solid meterless ender and EX does great damage and half screen corner carry. If you can react to the wakeup option as well which doesn’t feel that difficult you can basically get a similar mixup going as well.
And quite frankly if they have a decent confirm off a medium button you could be eating a lot of damage. Anyone with a VTC in their pocket is going to hurt. You’re basically trying to get a strike/throw mixup from well outside of throw range which I don’t really find to be worth the meter over getting the knockdown and running more pressure there.
TESTED cr lp will stuff the CR fp / CR mp is the superior option and still causes the stun as it stuffs ryus CR LP and his CR MP as well. So while CR fp Might not be as viable an option there is still definitely one that beats all pokes cr mp
Yep your right sorry im not a FRAME kinda guy i go by feel kinda like valle. Now that the other guy mentioned it I tested it and it will lose to lights but that is all it loses to. Its still a good option. But cr mp doesnt lose to lights or mediums it stuffs both. Therefore it is the superior option.
Check to see if you’re in range to connect a cr.mp after a st.lk (as it combos on CH and I don’t think the jabs do)? If so, that’s basically the superior option here until you get them scared enough to just downback. Also make sure it doesn’t whiff if they don’t press anything.
st lk counter hit into cr mp ? noted I will definitely look into it after the royal rumble thanks btw guys for the info… again not a frame guy more of a feel guy any reason why the cr mp works to stuff even cr lps ? I mean someone who can explain frame data wise ? Again I KINDA get frame data but im not very heavy into it. But again thanks for the useful info guys and I will update the setup as needed later >.<
Okay, so you’re +2 after the EX Stomps. That means that you can basically knock off 2 frames from the startup of any move you’d use to compare it to whatever the opponent would press. Cr.mp is 5f, so knock off 2f and you get 3f. The fastest jabs in the game are 3f, but the priority system means that the cr.mp will always win. This means that your opponent can only beat your cr.mp by doing a move that is either armored or invincible in some way.
Your st.lk is 4f, so it’s effectively a 2f move in this situation. It’s also +4 on hit, add 1f for a counterhit, which makes it +5. That lets it link into cr.mp, and seeing that hit lets you then cancel into a special of your choice. In addition your st.lk is +2 on block, which basically makes your cr.mp 3f again so it beats just about everything.
Alight sweet noted thanks for the help and effort guys I will test that one out when the rumble is done and I might have to remake that video then to adjust for everything I already sent into E-hubs and srk tho haha if it gets up well then ill fix it as I can and resubmit it.
Btw mutton would the st lk version help in the case of them blocking I remember seeing that video on here about storing your command throw. So basically you could use St lk after the setup and then hit confirm into cr mp if it fails and you see it blocked u can store the command grab and go for that since you would be + 2 on block how would that work frame adv wise ?
Again thanks for all the help since you understand frame data much better than me.
You can’t really react to if the st.lk hits or is blocked; you have to commit to the cr.mp after it. You can do 1 light and then dash in for a strike/throw mixup once you’ve convinced them to downback though.
Other things to check: are you in range to do a cr.mp and on CH link it into a second cr.mp? To do a st.mk?
Clearly it’s a balance decision. Can’t have it all.
CC c/s.hp not invoking an airborne state would skew his already vicious damage output. If you can get a bead on your opponent’s tendencies and see favourable CC situations, s.hk is your go-to option. Otherwise, stick with c/s.hp and take what you can get in my opinion.
Instilling the fear of potentially eating a CC also funnels opponents into blocking, which shifts your offence into throws or command grab territory, or a situation ripe for meaty stemmed frame traps (c.lk > s.mk/s.mp > c.mp xx slash on confirm).
I dont think you quite understand the videos point. The pressure you get off the Ex stomps is basically a guessing game for the enemy. Guess wrong you get stunned and lose 80% of your hp … guess right and well you survive to fight another day.