Necalli Combo/Tech Thread

Street Fighter V Necalli
181

That st.lk meaty, on paper would be extremely good if properly mastered. A button that not only combos to St.mk, tics into command grab perfectly and combos into crhp on CH. But it is really hard to time it that meaty, I’m gonna practice today and try to find some setups for it. A light button that has the potential to be +8 on hit and +6 on block is unheard of.

It would be really helpful for that dash data (or all data for that matter.) It could also be that his dash is still 17f but his jump is 44 frames instead of 46. Which makes sense since his jump is ostensibly faster.

The VT data would be useful too, especially since Necallis is permanent. So far, the only moves that I know that are different in VT mode are (without taking into account damage/stun increases):

-HK stomp +2 on block, possibly slightly faster due to being able to combo into St.fierce
-Cr.mp/st.mp better hitbox/range, +5 on hit; -cr.mp allows combo into MK stomp
-St.mp lesspushback OR st.mk has more range (due to st.mp, st.mk working in VT better)
-Ground pound faster/less disadvantage/possibly better hitbox
-CR.MK combos into LP/MP slash
-Can combo into rush punches w/put charge (universal change)
-MK stomp +0 ???
-St.HP combos into HP slash
-better hitbox on HP DP

Anything else I’m missing?

EDIT: cr.HP seems to be faster in VT too

182

Has anyone talked about the j.lp instant overhead?

So for those who don’t know, in the initial frames of someone’s wakeup their hitbox counts as standing, which can allow instant overheads for jump normals that reach low enough (in Necalli’s case, j.lp.) It’s really useful if you managed to knock someone down and they have a sliver of life. It works perfectly on sweep dash (normal recovery), it can work off backthrow/forward throw (doing forward j.lp), and pretty much any knockdown as long as you’re close up.

183

this

It won me a match last night for sure. Seems to be good for just that situation or when you know they’re going to try to counter jab you after a block

184

Just wanted to point out how amazing this is as anti-air and probably the best anti-air ever in any fighting game lol (the hurtbox isn’t even close to the hitbox, it even beats a lot of crossup attempts)

Green line: hurtbox
Red box: hitbox
Ignore green squares.

http://i.imgur.com/6a2TPW8.jpg

It’s even more amazing in vtrigger (no green line through his hand, i.e. no hurtbox)

http://i.imgur.com/1om8F73.jpg

185

Dat magneto standing jab.

186

https://youtu.be/O3A7IB3FjKE Necalli target combo into corner reset and V trigger combo into super and dp

187

Hello Necalli players !
First, excuse my english, this is not my native language…
I just got Street Fighter V and choose Necalli. I found a pretty nice tech after a backthrow :
If you dash and and do a mk stomp, it will trade against wake up jab. Then you have time to do litteraly everything you want. Usually i just dash and do a stand mk> crouching mp> lp disc combo.
If they don’t quickrise, i just do exactly the same sequence and the stand mk hit meaty (the command throw to).
The setup cover everything except a wakeup reversal so i find it very powerful.
I hope it will be useful.

188

I was experimenting with meaty stomp setups but I’m not sure if they’re useful. Best I could do was combo lk stomp into CR.MP and make mk stomp +. The problem is it’s so telegraphed that people will just react and DP, block or v reversal.

Off backthrow Necalli gets scary mixup. Meaty throw, command grab, meaty St.HK, close.lk, etc.

189

they might be useful if the opponent doesn’t have a dp. If you do them in the corner u might be ok.

But yeah, I don’t feel theyre too good either because many times you cant threaten a throw, so why press a button and get frame trapped?

190

This forum seems rather active, nice. Is there a trick to timing our grab or command grab to land as soon as possible on someone’s wakeup? I ask this because Dhalsim’s teleport for the first couple frames lacks any grab-immunity, and getting that down for when I play the matchup seems paramount.

What are some ways to time (with normals or otherwise) getting our grabs to land as soon as possible vs rising opponents? I fear it’s just difficult/unrealistic in some cases. thanks

191

i had a lot of trouble with that. i dont think its really possible off of most meaties but i forget the frame data right now.

if you’re going to throw his teleport, theres no reason to use command grab anyway because command grabs lose positioning. though i understand the appeal of wanting to use it.

192

Yeah i’m totally fine with normal grab, way better situation and continued corner carry while hes disabled is needed. hes still ass in the corner (sim). I guess I should just practice it :frowning: I need to know what knockdown situations will allow me to position for it as well.

193

Okay so I have reason to believe that two things change in VT mode: dash is 1 frame faster (17->16f) and jump frames are 1f faster (46->45). Here is my proof.

The setup HK stomp, cr.lp forward jump on backwards recovery is a 5f safejump in VT mode, and a 6f safejump in non-VT mode. Therefore the jump is 1f faster.

HP command grab, st.lk forwardjump is a 4f safejump in non-VT mode. Since there’s 57f knockdown recovery, the 15f st.lk+46jump=61, the difference 4 landing frames allow the safejump.

In VT mode, HP command grab, forward dash neutral jump is a 4f safejump. So the 61-45 jump startup = 16, which must be the dash.

An example of this applied would be the sweep CC setup:
non-VT mode: sweep CC, dash cr.lk(13f) neutral jump
VT mode: sweep CC, dash st.lk (15f) neutral jump

the 2f difference in the faster dash and jump are made in the difference between the cr.lk and st.lk.

The only other explanation would be that moves like st.lk lose recovery frames or something in VT mode. Can anyone else chip in and see if I’m correct? This is really important because Necalli has to adjust his frame timings based on whether he’s in VT mode or not.

EDIT: It’s really confusing to me, because in VT mode all the dash timings are exactly the same. So I’m really not sure what the difference is that makes the safejumps different in each mode.

194

I’m just going to share a lot of notes I’ve written down.

NOTE: As far as I know, all of the moves in his VT mode have the same knockdown recovery. However, his jump timing changes, possibly his dash as well.

**
Meaty command grab setups:**

On normal recovery:

In corner after HP command grab: LP/EX command grab after waiting 2f

after EX rush/LP DP/sweep: dash command grab
corner HP DP, st.lp command grab

On back recovery:
HPDP, dash command grab

Meaty Regular Grab setups:
VT only:
back throw, dash cr.lp throw
**
Safejumps:**

HP command grab, if no wakeup:
non-VT mode: st.lk forward jump (4f)
VT: dash forward, neutral jump (4f)

corner only MP command grab safejump:
non-VT: cr.lp neutral jump (5f)
VT: cr.lp neutral jump (4f)

sweep CC:
non-VT: dash cr.lk neutral jump (4f)
VT: dash st.lk neutral jump(4f)

super, no recovery
st.mp forward jump

**
Wakeup Timings:**
LP Rush:
Normal recovery: dash, walk into any mixup (grab, command grab, meaty st.lk etc.)
backwards recovery: dash dash st.lp (0 on block after dash). If they didn’t wakeup here, you get a 4f safejump after the st.lp.

MP Rush: (for VT mode)
Normal recovery: dash, into any mixup (grab, command grab, meaty st.lk etc.)
backwards recovery: dash dash st.lp (-1 on block after dash). If they didn’t wakeup here, you get a 4f safejump after the st.lp.

HP DP:
Normal recovery: dash st.LP (+1 after dash)
Backwards recovery: dash cr.mk, or meaty command grab if close enough
no wakeup, non-VT: dash cr.mp, neutral jump
VT: dash st.mp, neutral jump

**
Frame advantage from ST.hp/Cr.HP:**

st.hp CC MK stomp is +1 on normal recovery after dash
cr.hp CC MK stomp is +2 on normal recovery after dash

st.HP CC HK stomp is +4 on normal recovery after dash
Cr.HP CC HK stomp is +6 on normal recovery after dash

st.hp CC, dash dash is +1 on normal recovery
cr.hp CC, dash dash is +3 on normal recovery
**
Random Facts:**
EX stomps has some projectile invincibility in it
After cr.hp HK stomp, EX stomp, on normal recovery a super meaty st.HK is allowed, letting you combo into st.mk, cr.mp LP rush
st.lp x2, or cr.lk st.lp has tiny gap in it.
After EX command grab, if you do HP DP at the earliest you are +2 after forward dash (if they normal recovery)
You can always combo divekick into LP DP/st.lp/EX DP if you’re close enough
Max damage punish: st.hk CC, walk up st.hk VT slight walk up cr.hp MK stomp, cr.mp HP DP
Max stun, corner only: st.hk CC, walk up cr.hp MK stomp, cr.mp VT st.hp HK stomp, EX stomp (680 stun; 1 EX command grab into EX DP will stun cammy)
Try to be aware of how your opponent gets up. If he only does backrolls, do backroll setups, etc.

blockstun on moves:
st.HP>cr.hp >=cr.mp >st.mp>cr.mk>=st.mk>>lights

There’s definitely more I have or am in the process of learning, but this is a lot.

The thing to note here is that Necalli doesn’t have as bad of oki as most people think. It’s definitely not the best but its still possible to get in people’s faces if you read what type of recovery they do. Fortunately, right now people only do 1 type of recovery and don’t mix it up, which can make you really go in on people.

EDIT: fixes

195

so that punish combo does 383dmg/600 stun

st.hk CC, walk up st.hk, VT, cr.hp xx Stomp, cr.mp xx MP rush does 393/590 stun

196

Oh sorry, I mixed something up. I knew about that punish but thought the other one did more damage for some reason, maybe on non CC. Thanks for the heads up.

Also someone try to figure out what changes in VT mode when it comes to his jump and dash. I think I’m right that it sspeeds up but there are many other factors that it could be.

EDIT: actually there’s an even better punish than that, just replace MP rush w/ HP DP for 397/590.

Against Cammy for example I think it might be better to do the 600 stun combo instead of the 590, because 1 throw and 1 overhead later she will be stunned. I had it written as that but forgot.

197

o fuck I totally forgot how good the horizontal range on HP DP was in vtrigger good heads up

198

The extra frame of pre-jump startup on jumps is gonna make learning safejumps a lot more annoying. The jump throw OS is really dirty though, if you used correctly its really hard to stop. Adding an extra frame of startup is not gonna do much to the OS; I’ve started watching Daigo’s replays and I notice even he’s pulling it out. Sometimes you just see him jump back w/ j.lk on wakeup, you can bet your ass he’s doing that OS.

here’s an example: you can clearly see him stand up during the block string (due to jumping), then doing the OS again to successfully get out. This is gonna be the new “crouch tech” of the game, it could be worse in this game because besides chun li (and to a degree Laura), nobody has long low strings. The startup of the jump is irrelevant because it is covered by blocking frames; you would have to do an very very loose string which is very risky since you are prown to wakeup normals, wakeup throw, wakeup DP etc.
https://youtu.be/K7DPmAjqC2Y?t=7m6s
https://youtu.be/QzryuXr2uLc?t=7m11s

199

Yo. How much frame advantage does VTing the first frame of crouching forward give you? My friend was raging pretty bad that i crush countered him with a crouching fierce? He claimed he pressed a jab but I think he was lieing. But it does seem like you can get an ex command grab free. Never had someone get out of it unless i’m just playing against not so great players(very possible). This combo is sick cause it sets up a cross under reset.

200

It’s probably been said, but in VTrigger mode you can cancel into slash without having to charge. On its own it still has to be charged, but when you cancel from a connected normal all you have to do is hit back forward then punch.

One other thing to note is that necalli can connect a harder version than normal of his slashes while in VTrigger. Medium punch can combo into medium slashes whereas before it was just light.