Getting a late start with this game since I was out of town when it dropped. I didn’t start playing until Sunday night!
One thing I’ve noticed is that - in general - executing combos isn’t as “fast” as with USFIV. I have to take my time and not rush.
Anyone find any anti-airs other than hp/EX DP and c.hp?
I find standing jab to actually be a good anti air
all 3 stomps can be used to make people stop pressing stuff, but you need to know your spacing and have a read because you’ll get whiff punished hard.
hp dp is his main anti air. you’re probably just messing up the timing, its invincible
Im pretty sure you can link a cr.hp into CA as an anti air too.
Getting stuffed in that they’re hitting you out of startup? Can’t be a properly executed HP DP, as it’s invincible through the first active frame. Are you doing it too early and trading with jump ins? Are you doing it too late and they’re blocking?
Is MK stomp safe on block? I’ve been using lk stomp for preassure mostly.
mk is -2 which means your pressure is basically done but you can block
lk is not safe, its -4
Oh wow. I’ve been doing cr.mp+qcf lk for preassure. No one seems to punish it. I’ll switch to MK and test it out.
What’s best for preassure?
mk can be interrupted and it doesnt combo without ch
so if you do cr.mp xx mk stomp they can jab or dp you.
his best pressure tool is either st.lk or st.mk
you can pressure with his st.mp and cr.mp too but not as well.
its important to stress that you need to learn your meaty setups with necalli, even if they can backroll you’re still up close which is good
That’s excellent. St.mk seems like. Good options. I’ll practice that and st.lk.
Thanks a lot.
In footsies you can space LK Stomp to be relatively safe off a cr.mk. You shouldn’t be using cr.mk in pressure though as it’s slow as hell at 8f. If you want a low do cr.lk -> st.lp xx EX Stomp on hit.
Basically your pressure buttons are your lights and st.mk. You can then continue frametraps with cr.mp or try to catch them walking backwards with cr.mk (but this loses to mashing). St.lk is the god button which is both incredible up close and in meaty situations. Midscreen on hit you confirm into either EX Slash or EX Stomp. In the corner a perfect confirm is into the Target Combo for maximum damage and setups unless you can land a HP.
Basic frametrapping:
Jabs -> jabs. 2f gap, goes to st.mk and cr.mp on counterhit. On a non-pointblank jab only goes to cr.mp on counterhit
Jabs -> st.mk/cr.mp. 4f gap. Combos on counterhit. Combos into TC, LP/EX Slash, and EX Stomp
st.lk -> st.mk/cr.mp: 3f gap. Combos on counterhit. Combos into TC, LP/EX Slash, and EX Stomp
st.mk/st.mp -> cr.mp: 3f gap. Combos into LP/EX Slash and EX Stomp
cr.mp -> cr.mp: 3f gap. Combos on counterhit. Combos into LP/EX Slash and EX Stomp
You can generally get off an LP/EX Grab after a single blocked light. If you Potemkin Buster the grab (do a half circle backwards then forward motion) you can often get it after 2 blocked lights.
I will certainly be working more on the preassure game in the morning!
So this is a little beginner discussion on MK Stomp in block strings and frame traps. If my lab notes are wrong please feel free to correct me!
It may already be common knowledge to some but you can be jabbed out of an s.MK/cr.MK/s.MPxx MK Stomp on block with a 3 and 4 frame jab. If they are mashing in-between that cancel, you will get counter hit.
Cr.HPxx MK stomp frame traps and will catch 3 frame jabs, while s.HPxx MK Stomp is air tight with no gaps.
Now cr.MPxxMK Stomp is different. Against three frame jabs used in the middle of the cancel it will trade in a way that Necali recovers very fast from his MK Stomp. He will recover fast enough to link cr.MPxx LP Disc Guidance. Even then, if this seems too tight, you can do cr.HK as a finisher instead, if you are not expecting the “counter hit”. This will also catch the opponent mashing throw or jump, only blocking or invincible reversals will beat this.
Against 4 frame jabs, cr.MPxxMK Stomp flat out counter hits, allowing you to cr.MP xx LP Disc.
Expanding this idea, we can go in for s.LK,Cr.MPxxMK Stomp as a frame trap.
If the s.LK hits as counter hit, we can edit the final combo into ending with LK Stomp or LP Disc, as the cr.MP will link from CH s.LK.
If the s.LK get’s blocked, but cr.MP hits as a counter hit, we can carry on cancelling into the MK stomp as CH cr.MP cancels into MK stomp, and we can extend that as usual.
We already know what will happen if they block the first two hits and trade into MK Stomp, allowing us another extension.
Finally if they block the whole thing, well your back to neutral (really -2 but your so far pushed back nothing will hit you), with a good bit of space between you.
We can mix this up with adding more frametraps to the mix with s.LK,s.MK,cr.MPxx MK stomp, adding another 3 frame frame trap to the mix with s.MK into cr.MP. Remember that due to the push back and the extra button in the mix, if the s.LK or s.MK counter hit, you want to alter your combo into ending with LP Disc. If those two get blocked, feel free to MK Stomp. Just remember,if you trade with their 3f Jab with your MK Stomp in this string, you will pushed really far back and find it hard to follow up with an attack. However, you will be on plus while they still recover, so you can walk up and get meaty pressure.
Of course the whole point of this is to force your opponent into holding down back, so after observing them blocking, feel free to break these up with dash in tick throws,overheads, or even just blocking. Because they will try and spam invincible reversals.
Does cr.HP, qcf+MK have enough safe frames to be a good option? If it hits, can you not link another cr.MP?
I know cr. MP is a safer, faster button, but I see no reason not to try cr. HP since you can proceed with qcf+MK free.
You can Cr HP>MK Stomp>Cr MP>LP/EX slash or Ex Stomp or Super
If you can get the cr.HP to hit them safety in the first place as a meaty, from a jump in or catching them off guard, sure. It has a 9f start up, so even linking it from anything else in his kit that is 2+ on block (which is the most your going to get with Necalli) is going to, at most make it a 7 frame move, still beaten out by alot of things.
To be honest I am not sure what the frame trap is on cr.HPxxMK stomp. If i had to take a wild stab with the way 4f jabs behave with this setup, i’m going to imagine its something like a 2F gap, as you clean counter hit it.
The frame data seems to be of little use to figuring out how safe the stomps are during a cancel. s.MK and cr.MP both have almost identical frame data, the difference being +4 on hit for cr.MP and +6 for s.MP, which wouldn’t matter if we are basing this on the attack being blocked. However, as you will clearly see for yourself if you set the opponent to reversal 3F jab after being in block stun, anything but cr.MPxxMK Stomp gets counter hit out of the cancel.
Strangely, when you trade with cr.MPxxMKStomp you don’t get counter hit yourself, neither does the opponent. Also with further time in the lab, rather then going cr.MPxxMK Stomp #get traded with# cr.MPxxLP Disc , you can just mash s.HP into LP Disc, as the opponents jab will greatly shorten the recovery on MK stomp, similar to the all the combo videos you have with people getting hit by fireballs to recover faster then they normally should.
So the short answer to your question is, cr.HPxxMK Stomp is fine to frame trap with. The difficulty is that getting it out safely can be troublesome. cr.MPxxMK Stomps works in a similar but quite strangely benefiting way, but with the added benefit of being able to link it from other safe and quick attacks. If you land a blocked jump in, or use it during the mid game with a good read, then it’s a great way to start.
On another bigger note, we should all be more careful with ending blockstrings with MK Stomp. They are not as air tight as you may think, and while you can benefit from this, be wary of people mashing invincible moves during your blockstrings, or god forbid a super.
What are his AA’s?
H DP, St LP, Cr HP
This isn’t anime; counterhits are only during startup (and DP recovery).
But yes, cancels are weird in this game. You don’t cancel on the frame you input the special but rather each move has a special cancel frame where the cancel occurs. This means you can actually make moves combo via doing a meaty canceled into a special where most games that doesn’t happen. You can look at the cancel frames in dantarion’s boxdox. St.mk for instance, cancels on the second recovery frame through fourth frame. Cr.mp cancels during any active frame. This means that they have the exact same properties when canceled on hit due to st.mk having 2 more frames of hitstun but cr.mp is tighter on block because they have equal blockstun, active, and recovery frames.
Thanks, which one specifically stops cross ups.