Even if this is the case, the only abilities that are used now are bloodline ones, which can’t be copied.
Having eyes that cuts your learning time to a fraction of the time it would take normally is basically a cheap power up regardless of having to spend some extra time learning it. Sasuke learned Chidori and trained his body to handle Rock Lee jutsu in like what? About the same amount of training time it took Naruto to learn Rasengan? It took Rock Lee years to handle it and Sasuke learns both in a month because Sharingan lets him learn the basic principles of jutsu without trying. Having eyes that let you understand an attack instantly, see chakra, see people that are normally faster than you and see through any genjutsu isn’t immediately free?
And you guys keep implying that Naruto doesn’t work hard despite the million Naruto training arcs and the arc that shows that his Kage Bunshins can cut his training hours down from months into days? And explanations that fox chakra is really hard to control? He’s just dumber than Sasuke really. He doesn’t work any less hard.
Absorbing all of Orochimaru’s powers for a while isn’t a cheap powerup? Sasuke was gonna lose to Orochi until he went “lol my eyes will always beat you no matter what because I was born with the talent of the uchiha and you weren’t neener neener neener”
do you mean he trained to use the sharingan? bcuz there was no time for him to train between fighting rock and then jacking his move. either way though, i’m not really seeing the argument here they both trained and they both have broken ass “natural” abilities that kishi decides to pull out of his ass from time to time.
i still can’t get over danzo having an arm full of sharingans, that’s easily one of the most ridiculous things i’ve ever seen in a comic that was played straight.
You’re mistaken. There was plenty of time. Lee fought Sauske prior to the forest of death. Sasuke didn’t use ShiShi Rendan until the third part of the Chuunin Exam. He received the cursed seal and had even spent time training with Kakashi IIRC. The argument isn’t that Sasuke doesn’t get free powerups; it’s why do people hate on him for it but get a hard on when it’s naruto.
You fell for my trap card!!! Chidori is a foolish example since Kakashi sat down and taught it to him, and the jutsu is useless for anyone who doesn’t have Sharingan. of course it was easier for a sharingan user to learn it. It’s been established that non sharingan users can’t put it to work effectively. The Rock Lee jutsu is also foolish because Naruto made his own variant in the same amount of time without sharingan. I’m still waiting on Sharingan actually copying jutsu being relevant because post time skip no one copies shit. Not even “Copy Ninja Kakashi” copies anything.
How is it any more free than being born with chakra that lets you do forbidden S-rank jutsu?
No one is implying that he didn’t work hard for some of his achievements. The argument is that Naruto and Sasuke BOTH get free bullshit. The clone learning is a massive example of that. There was nothing to indicate that the clones worked in the manner described until that arc. Anyone who makes a clone should have realized “Hey! When that thing poofed I suddenly had memories of what it saw!” That was the very definition of free because it goes bakc to the chakra that he was born with.
He’s not even dumber than Sasuke. They’re pretty much equal.
We knew Sharingan >> orochimaru by the fact that he wanted it so badly and by the fact that Itachi already aced him for free. The biggest note in that case, however, is that it was temporary. It’s not even a factor.
BJ went yugioh on DF
- summoned weak fur ball [ninja edit: kuribo] and places two face downs.
- flips up “mirror force” and “swords of revealing light”
- stacks on “horn of the unicorn” for power boost
- uses spell “multiply” to even the odds
- FADCs “comrade in arms” FTMFW
disclaimer’s note: I remember season one way to well but never played the game.
The argument seems to gotten muddled in this thread. I don’t think we’re really disagreeing on the basics here? Some people in the thread though seem to have been arguing that Sasuke doesn’t get free powerups in the same proportion as Naruto supposedly because he had to train harder?
But to respond to a couple things, Orochimaru’s temporary boost was replaced immediately by a stronger free powerup. Not a major factor, but it does let him heal faster from Deidara in that fight until he gets MS.
Kakashi did copy Rock Lee’s jutsu when he pulled open the Sharingan in the Rock Lee/Gaara fight. The manga implies that he copies the gate opening though I am not sure if this is canon. I’d be willing to bet he copied the basics of doing the Rasengan also from watching Naruto. Kakashi copied the water clone way back also, but yeah, the Sharingan now is all lol MS powers now.
The Naruto manga harps a lot on the fact that Sasuke is smarter and generally goes out of its way to point out that Naruto is too stupid to understand even basic concepts of ninjutsu. Yeah, Naruto’s dumber, but it doesn’t really matter in the scheme of things.
I think the manga shoves the fact that Sasuke is a genius, but the only difference between them is really their attitude and demeanor. Sasuke is always serious while Naruto’s playfulness is always mistaken for him being dumb early on. Since he could not properly mold his chakra (which isn’t a reflection on intelligence) he simply stopped applying himself and went the class clown route. One of the things I give Kishi credit for is showcasing Naruto’s intelligence without being too blunt about it. Honestly, what has Sasuke done recently that makes him smarter? They’ve both taken their jutsu to levels beyond their predecessors. They’ve both shown ability to develop battle plans on the fly. I’d almost venture to say that Naruto is smarter because even with his immature nature he shows a wisdom that Sasuke lacks.
Maybe how we’d want to differentiate between the two is that Sasuke is very booksmart and Naruto simply isn’t. The story here is that you really you don’t need to be smart in the classroom if you’re clever and creative otherwise.
Naruto’s definitely not good at understanding explanations quickly when being taught. At every step, Naruto has had to learn the basics of ninjutsu again, not just because he hasn’t been paying attention in class, but because he learns things by doing them. He simply doesn’t understand Jiraiya’s explanation of how to do Rasengan at each step, or how to walk on water, or elemental natures and so forth every time someone explains something to him.
What I see here is that Kishimoto (who finished near the bottom of his class in high school) wanted to write a story with autobiographical elements in Naruto.
Naruto gets hella free powerups. Sensei says, “It’s like trying to look left and right at the same time, herp derpy derp derp.” Next thing you know, Naruto has some new shit going on.
I wish I had that kind of learning method. I mean shit, Naruto has learned his three most important techniques up to this point from that one statement.
This post is not to be taken seriously.
Except it kinda is.
just spotted this, and this info is incorrect. sauce saw shishi rendan before the forrest of death in his fight with lee, he first used it in the qualifier fights directly following the forrest of death. and he only had to use it because he couldn’t use jutsu or sharingan for fear of agitating his brand spanking new cursed seal.
of course sasuke and naruto gets free power-ups. they’re the main characters.
And it’s not like Naruto wasn’t training with Ero Sennin all that time either… :rolleyes:
The only part that was incorrect is that he trained with Kakashi. As shown by the previous flashbacks with Karin, we weren’t shown everything that happened in the forest of death. And your correction is incorrect by virtue of the fact that shishi rendan is a jutsu.
…What? No. Kakashi’s sensei was the Fourth Hokage, who was the first man to learn the Rasengan. Far more likely is that Kakashi learned from watchin’ Daddy Blonde rather than his son.
A fighting manga without arbitrary power ups is like an RPG without leveling.
As the number go up, it means your having more fun.
Obviously they can’t end the manga until everybody is maxed out and equipped with tediously acquired, legendary items.
You’re missing my point.
I wasn’t even saying “Sasuke gets handouts and Naruto doesn’t”. I was saying “they both get handouts, but they both also have powerups that they worked for, Sasuke’s being the massive jump in strength over the timeskip, and Kyuubi mastery to obtain the Rikudou-esque form being Naruto’s”.
Also, I disagree about people “doing it for him”. Unless you’re going on the logic that a character getting help to learn something or beat someone means they didn’t actually learn anything or beat the guy, which pretty much cancels victories and training sessions of like 95% of all shounen characters in history. Seriously, thinking about it the way you do means that Goku never defeated Freeza, or anyone else he’s been said to have a win over (he had help and bailouts on all of those fights). How does history see those when you look at the DBZ manga as a whole? As victories for Goku. Because even though he had help to do it, he still took those guys out in the end. Ultimately, Naruto overcame the Kyuubi. Nobody beat it up and handed him its chakra, he did it.
People getting help to beat someone or learn something in a shounen doesn’t negate the win or the fact that they learned it, it’s the par for the course. People should just stop thinking that altogether or stop reading shounen because they’ll keep getting pissed off when it happens.
Havent been in here for a while… gone but not forgoten.
naruto nine tails form reminds me of the rinnegan user… in one image.
Also if Naruto stays this epic… what kind of buff is sasuke gonna get?
About time guy gets some face time… slap in a little rock lee and we have a special 
So…whatever happened to the other half of the kyubii’s chakra? Is it in the death god like a clone spawn of some kind or is it in the kyubii which is trapped in naruto or what?
The other half of Kyuubi’s chakra went bye-bye when Minato sealed it with Shiki Fuujin.