forward juice kick :uf: :d::db::l: :k: or :d::db::l::uf: :k:
backward juice kick :ub: :d::db::l: :k: or :d::db::l::ub: :k:
it’s not easy to have consistent juice kick from neutral position
it is a lot easier if the game is slowed down (after fireball hit, etc)
or if you can buffer the motion (before the round begins, or after being knocked down)
FYI, these are not option selects. An option select is when your input will automatically result in 1 of 2 outcomes depending on what your opponent does. You also cannot block if you try to safejump jump punch xx tatsu because the punch has to be done so deep that the tatsu will come out on the ground if the punch doesn’t connect.
Also, timing on juice kick is extremely strict, so don’t feel bad.
Actually it’s possible to safe jumping plenty of antiairs with Ken’s jumping punchs xx air hurricanes, I myself barely use Ken but at least for me, timing for whiffed jumping punch xx air hurricane is slightly different to succeded jumping punch xx air hurricane.
Ok, so Ken safe jumps, if the oponent blocks or gets hit, air tatsu hits at 1st frame, which means it will make contact pretty much most of times.
Same safe jump again, but this time oponent AA reversal, so Ken’s punch will whiff, and if timing was meant for a hit xx tatsu, pretty much tatsu wont ever come out, giving him the chance to succesfully safe jump.
Good example of working safe jumps against: Guile’s Flash Kick, Boxer’s bull charge, Claw’s flip kick, and some others.
unfortunately, that’s not the case most of the time. the hurricane comes out when you hit the ground if they reversal, much like a dp install would if you’re using hawk. same principle.
If you get ground hurricane then you are failing to cancel it by doing it too “late”, in the other way, if you cancel it too “early” the landing frames of the air tatsu(7) will make you vulnerable to the reversal, perfect timed or you get punished, I think it very worth to execute it perfectly since the risk/reward is too good for Ken.
Btw, the diff between doing it late or early is almost unnoticeable.
i don’t think you understood the way i was trying to explain it. but it’s cool, if you can get it to work then awesome.
but just to clarify: when you safe jump, the idea is to have an active hitbox out during what would be the startup frames of whatever reversal they have, and the same time being able to land on the ground to block before their special move becomes active.
during this “safe” frame window is when you would jab into hurricane. the game also has it’s own frame window that will recognize special moves and execute them (i think it’s 8 frames or so, but if someone can correct me that’d be cool). because of this, if the jab whiffs from properly safe jumping, the game will still recognize the hurricane input and execute it once your character hits the floor, which would result in you eating their reversal. in the same manner, this is how you would set up a dragon punch install, which would result in a dp only if your opponent tries to reversal, granted your safe jump was proper. t. hawk players use this a lot against characters with lesser priority specials.
i hope i explained it well, and if you know something i don’t, then i’d like to learn about it. (i didn’t really understand what you were trying to convey in your last post.)
I used expedia dot com once so I’m a reputable source. Elkpor is wrong and damdai and moocus are right. If you safe jump correctly and the other player reverses correctly, the hurricane kick will come out when you hit the floor.
Yea I got my first N.E.S. at K-Mart back in the 80´s and it cost 80 bucks. The electronics section was all the way at the up-toward section of the store. True story.
My Tatsus come out on the ground also. Might be cause my Ken is shitty.
Same experience with damdai, moocus and dj.
Ken’s Jab dp has 2 frames startup, Ryu 4, Guile 5, Boxer 11.
So unless you’re so gdlk and can execute such that jumping jab is active at -2 and cancel into AH at -1 every time, (even if jab whiffed, meaning your jab only has only 1 active frame), you’re going to mess up and eat a reversal as your tatsu will come out after you landed.
Considering Ken’s jumping jab has 2 startup frame, your perfect motion would be
-X Jump
-4 Jab
-2 Jab active
-1 AH motion complete
0 Land
It’s rather impossible to do this, let alone do this consistently. Maybe you can try this with an emulator with frame by frame advance to verify your theory works.
It becomes less impossible as you go from ken to ryu to guile, etc. But it is still difficult to time it, and your risk / reward ratio is not that good (messed up and you’ll eat a reversal from your ground tatsu)
However this works well against rog, as you can jump jab starting from -11 and you have plenty of time to cancel into AH before landing, even if rog reversal and your jab xx AH whiffed.
It might be just my personal experience, it seems easier to cancel jab into AH when jab connected (hit/block). A whiffed jab cancel into AH seems harder (timing more strict?).
[btw philcito, both jab qcb kick or qcb jab kick will work. the later use the same buffering principle as ryu’s cr. forward xx super, and i find that easier personally]
random stuff:
I don’t understand why the wiki page said Ken’s jumping forward is a good cross up. It works but compare to Ryu’s RH, DJ’s forward, it sucks.
Ken’s jumping forward has two different active hitboxes, and the first one (cross up) is only active for a few frames (2-4, need to verify with emulator tonight). If you press the button too early, it will whiff easily and you’ll eat a counter throw.
Maybe, just maybe, that it sucks so much your opponent might think you whiffed and try to counter throw, and yet you time it correctly and he’ll eat a combo.
I guess that’s the only up side in the psychological warfare, similar when you safe jump correctly and your opponent mis-read and reversal. You land blocked and punish afterward.
It is easier. Hit freeze extends the special cancel window.
5 frames on the first hitbox. There may be some kind of trickiness where you can make the cross-up even more ambiguous with it, but the hitbox on Ryu’s roundhouse is definitely better.
got it man thanks for info… but i have no problems with juice kick at all:S sometimes it wont come out but is because of lag.
The only thing that i don’t like from Ken is he’s not good with the strong and fierce srks… if you want to use srks as a defensive tool(reversals) s.dp and f.dp just sucks
Sometimes when i use piano, i pray for the jab version to come out, i don’t want the strong or fierce version to land one or two hits, because i’ll get punished in the way down if the srks doesn’t knock down my opponent.
To use piano with ken is too risky.
It’s so damn frustrating.
And that’s the key for always timing the air hurricane as hit freeze after the punch, if you do it that way, the Air hurricane wont come out for a whiffed punch, by the time you land, ground hurricane doesnt have to come out unless you are making the mistake of negative edge it.
In other words, if you safe jump with punch, make sure you are timing the air hurricane as making contact:
1)Opponent doesnt reversal, punch makes contact and you get hit freeze window and air hurricane comes out.
2)Opponent reversals, punch whiffs and air tatsu wont come out(because you didn’t get hit freeze window), character lands and you are safe to block.
3)Opponent reversals, punch whiffs and air tatsu wont come out, char lands and you are safe to block, you unpressed kick button(s) and ground hurricane activated with neg. edge comes out.
If in option 2 you get air hurricane by timing it too early, you are no longer safe at landing, and pretty much everyone gets option 3, which is what players use for safe jumping and then dp’ing.
Either your timing is too “early”, too “late” or well executed.
Also, if air punch makes contact(hit/block no matter how deep it does) air punch xx air tatsu combo will always connect.
I mentioned it previously in this thread( post #224)
The risk/reward ratio is too good, worst thing happening is you get punished with a reversal, the reward is you might win the round if opponent messes it up (op. gets dizzy) or least you take him 1/3 of his stamina, and still keep the pressure on him.
If you think is too risky, you simply safe jump with lp, yes, reward isnt the same but risk is minimal and yet you have good choices to follow it up.
… dude, i don’t know what else to tell you.
edit: just an fyi, most characters can duck under jump jab. not a good idea to use it all the time. pepper it in here and there, but being predictable is never a good idea.
I started off capturing various setup/block string/combos for N ken but it turned out consuming a lot of time that I could invest so I just string some of them together and upload it.
It’s lacking titles / comments for new players as to how to perform them (for tricky ones) and when to use which block string, etc.
But at least it’s uploaded, maybe one day I’ll go back and properly edit another one.
[media=youtube]KotWU328FxA[/media]
Ken Short,Short Super
I need help with Kens Shortx2 Super. I was practicing it earlier today on Hd remix classic training mode on the PS3. I could get it most of the time but, when I came on super arcade I could not do it at all. I had so many chances to land it. Every time I would try it on super arcade I would always get short.short. then ken does nothing after the two shorts what could I be doing wrong for ken to be doing two shorts and then nothing after it?
It means you’re pressing the third short too early if nothing comes out. It’s pretty easy to press the lks too fast so that they dont come out. The standing lk actually does need to come out and be kara cancelled. Just pressing the button isn’t good enough. If you can do it on one system but not another, timing differences is a good explanation.
If you can do the combo in HD Remix Classic mode, then I don’t see why you can’t do it in Supercade ST. HDR Classic is a port of Dreamcast ST, and there are no differences from Arcade in terms of input windows or frame data. There might be a difference in speed or most likely it’s the PS3’s inherent input delay. It could also be online lag messing you up.
My advice: practice the combo in Supercade/GGPO while playing offline. Save a state so you can easily reset after using meter.
Thanks Ill try this on ggpofba. Also how are you supposed to do cr.mp/cr.hp into super I can do it with kicks but when I try to do a crouching punch into super the punch wont come out it just does the super
Are you using W7 VCfan?, windows 7 and fba **sometimes ** doesn’t mixup that well together, W7 adds some input lag to your character so that could be the source of your problem.