is he really? Hawks got more damage output, takes more damage, moves to get him in all over the dam screen, a usable focus, multiple tick setups from specials, a DP for those jump backs and REALLY good normals. Heck he can spam 5 cr.lp’s for a combo for Christ sake. sRH is hella quick and what seems to be better ric flair chops than giefs s.MP
Not being disrespectful, just saying (asking)…
Agreed about the air throw.
I thought about the same thing in regards to Hakan. Slide definitely makes things easier against projectiles as well as blanka, honda, and boxer. However, it’s sort of give and take. Giefs deals with rushdown a better then Hakan I feel especially if unoiled.
Oh yeah no doubt…Hakan’s defense feels…lacking…sans ultra…but as someone who prefers to play aggresively, I’m not mad at that. I spend most of my defensive energies (for better or worse as an average player) on preventing setups which I can’t defend well, and prodding my opponenet into a move I can counter.
As for Hawk, I look at it this way. If you get pressured into a corner, who would you fear more going against…Hawk or Gief? And Gief can spam c.lp too for a 4 or 5 hit shrug.
To me, I think it all boils down to Zangief is still more scary when he is in close than Hawk even with cr.lk nerfs. When we are talking about good players here…look at this.
T.Hawk is only going to score a good knock down and be able to play the mixup game after he lands that lp.spd. Once he knocks you down, whats he going to do that can keep the momentum going like Gief can? The only thing he can do to score another knock down is his cr.HK or another SPD. His normal throws move the opponent away which is not might not work to your favor depending on the situation. The chances a good player will see this and be able to get away are high and then you have to of course, take hits to get in. Gief has an even worse time getting in as we all know from experience but once he gets in, he has the ability to end the fight quickly.
Comparing to T.Hawk and Gief is strange to me. Gief is better at what T.Hawk sucks at and vice versa. No need to explain all the reasons why because they are already jumbled up in this thread and im lazy. But when we talk about AA, cr.Lariat is king compared to Tomohawk. The applications of T.Hawks st.HK and Giefs st.MP are sort of different so its kinda lame to compare, but if you compare Giefs st.HK with it I would much rather have Gief’s.
T. Hawk is just a less aggressive grappler and he won’t ever be scary up close like Gief has the ability to do. Hawk just seems like a defensive grappler with a few gimmiky offensive moves while nerfed Gief is still a knock down mixup beast. Both styles are completley valid but I also think when it boils down Gief is still better…but this does NOT mean that T.Hawk is bad.
Edit. Gief rapes more in the corner than Hawk ever could dream of.
I don’t know man… that EX DP of his makes him totally 50-50 in the corner. Gief is 50-50 on most characters, but not shotos with god like c.mk and coward copters or other DP wielding maggots. Well i guess the same could be said for Hawk…so how is Gief per se “better” in the corner? Seems even.
I guess I just need to see more high level vids of Hawk getting pounced like I see Gief get the business against fuerte, guile and seth. LOL, yes I said fuerte, 8 of 10 you_vids fuerte gets the W. Guess that’s what just posts since it’s supposed to be “5-5”. insert unreallystic’s shrug here, 
I was just being really biased actually. I think they are about the same also but cornered DP are nothing but f*me bait when a shoto is trapped in a corner. If you are spaced properly the cornered opponent shouldn’t be throwing out any DPs because that ish is going to be followed up with SPD fo sho. Not much you can do about the rolfcopter with ryu other than hope for the random counter headbutt when you think he will fly. Ken on the other hand is punishable by lariat.
But how much EX bar do you reliably have? The beauty of Gief’s game is he doesn’t need SQUAT, the mix-up easily leads right BACK into itself, is easy to initiate with proper spacing (alot harder now obviously), and with the O-S guide, you can have some REAL fun against certain character. Gief’s ability to hit low on a c.lk and lead to knockdown, or simply hold the lk and spin it and let go into a 360k is just too damn tasty. Block low, you get thrown, dash back, get knocked down, jump up, get knocked down. If your a shoto - you can mash, and end up falling for the bait which equals taunt xx ultra. Hawk is still new to the engine and I’m sure over time they’ll find some real sick shit that once lag is inntroduced ill have folks all over rage quitting…but until other wise…Gief makes me WAY more nervous to go against in close quarters.
shrug
Vodka For Lunch Edit - LULZ @ Coward Copter
Hawk wake up game is weak at best and is very easy to pull wake up shinanigans on vs gief who’s got the best AA special move in the game. Also hawk has Been riding the people don’t know how to punish his shinanigans for a bit but once they learn the match-up he starts getting owned. Other than Seth and sagat gief is even or better vs every match-up than hawk. Also hawk has nothing vs a good rog guile or blanka those are all 3-7 or 2-8 for hawk.
But you need the same SAID EX bar for the EX GH knockdown too…just saying man.
I’d love to see the God like hands that can taunt to ultra on a jab DP, esp from Ken. The shoto scrubs that learned this make me sooo sick. HAHAHAHA
But anyway, just healthy Gief talk…
I can only do taunt xx ultra on medium to EX, not jab…those just get a normal SPd shrug…hopefully it leads to an ultra eventually anyways. Its not hard, you block and hit taunt the moment block stun stops, using that to buffer your 720/570 whatever. The look on Ken’s face when you do that is pure hilarity.
And naw youu don’t need EX for knockdown…though its alot better than c.lk->lariat…but I tip my hat that you hit confirm with EXGH…
I still lulz when I kill someone by FADCing lariat into EXGH on that combo…its SUCH a waste of meter…though it doesn’t matter at that point.
I feel that Hawk can out poke Rog and Zangief cannot.
if you block a ryu jab dp then you can put in the ultra motion during the blockstun and get them when they land, no need to buffer with c.lk you wont have enough time but maybe whiff a normal throw will work.
I think the cool down on a normal throw might be too much time (can’t test atm). If I was to buffer, I’d prolly use c.lk…but I just play it safe and SPD on a jab dp. If you time it right though, you might be able ot bufferr the motion durin blockstun and hit PPP when they land…wouold require some practice though hehe.
oh sure…bring Rog into it 
I must say, I loved Rog in early SF2 days, even on the re-release I mained Rog and Sim…but on here, ugh I just hate him lol.
Too slow. Too weak.
the dream is dead.
After three weeks of solid online ranked battles and endless battle the Gief is CRAP.
Too slow. Too weak.
Sure, I can wreck scrub ryus and kens, but when facing someone of similar or greater skill… It its close to impossible to win.
Against non-fireball characters gief match-ups are still kinda fun (expect against blanka). So for Endless battles I will pick Gief now and again.
For ranked, its Dudley all the way! Sure he ain’t a shoto, but just like geif you gotta work to get in and punish.
BTW -T Hawk = BEAST
c lp c lk c lk xx ex gh is now a new punisher for me and easy to do. does 258 for cross up splash c lp c lk clk ex gh
been playing some tough comp and for me at least im doing just fine with gief, as he still boasts the biggest play style changer as per his character design
Too slow, probably. Too weak, no way!
He still has the most damaging ultra in the game @ 520(well actually an oiled Hakan using U1 does the most damage @ 530).
LP SPD, yeah I agree its a little weak, but if you recognize when and where you can use MP or HP SPD instead of LP to maximize your damage, you’ll see he still very dangerous.
His pokes are weaker but still pretty strong compared to the rest of the cast.
Yes you do have to work harder to get in w/ Gief and do your thing but his is no where near weak.
Which Zangief are you playing as?
Pokes better than the rest of the cast? - No.
Zangief is too slow, and too weak.
gief has really long and fast pokes with good priority. If you don’t know how to use them, then that’s your problem, not gief’s.
other than standing FP or cr. FP every gief normal has good uses(even cr mk is a good closing tool is you wiff it.) his standing lk, standing mp, cr and st lp are some of the best pokes in the game. and every one of those can be linked into a cr lk exgh combo. Gief has some problems but pokes are not one of them.
sorry to say man but you just need to change your game, i have had to rely more on his standing lk to cancel out other peoples pokes and have had to commit myself to jumping very very rarely. It has improved my game 10 fold as now i just make use of what gief does best push people back with an awesome set of normals until i get a knockdown or make them so afraid of my pokes that they block long enough to get a spd. gief is still a great character he just worse that 4.