Yeah it would be punishable by uhh… three characters?
So in other words, make the game’s few remaining somewhat good characters and make them just as mediocre as the rest of the cast?
Nerfing reversals ?
Vortex characters are already strong enough as it is. They dont need more help.
Perhaps, but it’s still not going to change the problem. This is specifically why I mentioned that the wakeup reversal window should not be modified. Wakeup reversals aren’t really a problem in this game. Even in ST where reversals are 1f, the mindgame still exists. Will the opponent perform a reversal, or will they block? Gambling on whether someone or not can hit a pianoable 1f reversal window is not a very good strategy.
Mashing is through blockstrings is more problematic in this game. To be precise, it’s problematic for chars whose hit-confirms aren’t true blockstrings. Not because of the potential reversal DP (which can be baited), but because it’s always possible of the opponent to backdash or teleport out of pressure. It is extremely hard to beat this. This is another reason I posed the idea that reversal backdashes should drain Ultra meter.
I’m no SF4 expert so I’ll defer to your knowledge on that. I guess what I want is more than just the window anyway, it is crazy to me how good reversals are in general, especially on wakeup. ST they have to hit a small window. 3s you have to spend meter or it’s probably getting stuffed by meaty whatever. no backdashing, no shoryukens, just gotta block. that’s what I really want out of SF4. not just “they’re punishable so he can bait them” but also “they can get stuffed and the timing is strict so it’s risky to go for them at all.” I like that more.
To be fair, most vortex characters are effective because their attack vectors are safe from reversals.
In ST you can piano them though, which gives you a 6f reversal window (button inputs + releases). This method is not practical in SSFIV the input merge window will cause errant EX moves, and even if you were to slow your inputs, chars who rely on EX moves for reversals will still be at a disadvantage.
In 3S you also have parries. You don’t just “have to block”. And the reversal window there doesn’t seem that problematic because wake up moves in general are much weaker than in SFII and SFIV. If wake up moves were stronger, you’d see more reversals in that game. The shorter reversal window would not deter top players from getting them when they want it.
Nerfing reversals would actually give non vortex characters more options for offense post knockdown.
yeah but who is going to guess parry on wakeup or during the middle of something in 3s? you do have to just block, or you’re probably getting blown up. wakeup moves are fine there as well, if you spend meter. which to me feels like a fair tradeoff anyway.
lol obviously 3s is my main game, from my knowledge and preferences and avatar. don’t wanna be the cause of another “3s vs SF4” dumb argument in the same thread. as a general rule though I’d rather reversals and backdash on wakeup be worse than they are. with how slow movement speed is I should think you’d want to reward knockdowns with safer offense on wakeup. risk/reward makes more sense to me personally that way.
And it would give vortex chars even more options (not that either group don’t have these options already…). IMO a change like this has the potential to make strong characters stronger and weak characters weaker. Chars who have an easier time scoring a knockdown would benefit more from this than the rest of the cast.
Slightly nerf the damage of characters who rely on vortex and slightly buff zoning/charge characters to some of the tools they lost in AE/super. Buff low tier characters like Thawk, Unoiled Hakan, Yang, Guile, Sim, Chun, Deejay, Dudley etc…
Capcom shouldn’t go overboard like they did with sagat and guile though.
The only nerfs I’d like to see would be some characters just not getting buffed.
If everyone got buffed and some characters didn’t, wouldn’t that itself be a nerf?
But honestly, I’d like to see everyone get a buff of some kind. Even if some characters got useless/small buffs, it go a long way towards making the community happy. It always sucks to see your character get nerfed.
The vortex characters shouldnt remain at an advantage if you manage to defend against their mixups, that’s bullshit, always has been.
If everyone is “mediocre” doesn’t that mean no one character has an advantage and isn’t that the point of balance? Good is relative, and they are only good because they are compared against other characters who aren’t, meaning there is a problem with balance. Come on now.
Ok, the Dhalsim nerf may be a bit much. But there isn’t a more damaging combo in the game than when he lands full Ultra into Super, into an extra hit at the end which is pretty easy to setup.
Lol making 2nd ex rekka -2/-3 would make it far from punishable and useless when properly spaced. That’s like saying Gouken’s godlike sweep which is -3 on block is a useless move.
How much damage does it exactly do?
The only way for Sim to get Ultra into Super is the for the opponent to be stupid enough to take the ultra damage when Sim is standing next to them. He has to stock a full super and ultra, knock the opponent down, throw out the ultra, and hope they either don’t block low or don’t block the teleport mixup, both are pretty easy to do.
562 off the juggle, which really isn’t that much. Gen does 624 when he combos super into ultra, and it’s much easier to do. It doesn’t keep Sim from being low-tier, which is why it makes no sense to even ponder nerfing the character anymore than he already is.
that doesn’t matter. if you get the EX version then so be it. also, i’m not asking for the reversal window to be 1f or anything. 3f maximum and if that happens you wouldn’t really need to piano. you already have :df::d::df::hp: shortcut to mash so it’s not asking too much for a smaller reversal window. it will really only affect mashing during block strings and not so much reversals on wake up.
or keep everything the same but have more pushback on block or longer block stun.
Yeah that’s why I was asking. I’ve never seen that combo done and thought “wow. that’s a lot of damage.” Gen does a lot more damage with his and sure as hell lands it more frequently. Yet that doesn’t make Gen top tier and when you think about it Dhalsim is low as you can get tier-wise. Sim sure needs nerfs.
2 is a bit small considering we’re in the HD age where input lag is more of an issue. 3 would be better. for example, in 3soe i don’t need to mash to get a dp to come out on the very first frame on wake up. if i can do it, 99% of the population can do it (my execution is ass) and that’s without a shortcut or pianoing.