MvCI Meta and Tier Discussion

Current Fighting Games Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite
1201

Resets and setplay in this game is too nasty for the HSD glitch to really matter competitively. You have to burn way more meter than most of the almost resource free setplay that kill characters in two touches. You can counter switch the HSD glitch so it’s completely more fair than anything in Marvel 3 and fair for this game. It seems hard to ToD with it in any ways with how much meter it costs just to get past 8k. Plus it only really resets the hit stun, the damage scaling is still pretty bad towards the end.

They’ll most likely take it out either way because eSports and they don’t want anything that circumvents the 6 or 7 k max damage threshold they designed for the game.

Removing it doesn’t do much other than make Sonicfox’s team stronger than it already is. Your team will either need his level of setplay or some other cheap shit with an invincible level 1 to compete.

1202

LOL… I finally realised and put 2 and 2 together why this game is called “infinite”

It’s because the tag system makes up “infinite possibilities”

Haha, to funny.

Anywho after watching that capcom DLC character stream… those guys aren’t high level, but their tag strategies are much closer to what I think capcom is going for with this game.

Tagging all the time to get frame advantage and setup mixups.

Going for a simple chain confirm when you have the option to tag is not optimal.

I repeat, it is NOT optimal. Better is to go for your confirm and then on hit or block you tag to continue your offense or confirm. Even simple jumping attacks in this game can be a high/low mixup with j.hp+tag (before your jhp hits the opponent)

This means pressure in this game is stifling and suffocating.

But we already know that.

I’ve been looking into other stones now to see where we can benefit from this kind of knowledge:

Time stone storm:

With IM/ultron

You can basically do dash st.hp xx L beam xx tag x 3 for a pretty long lockdown that can’t be pushblocked out of. That’s not the strong part though. At any time you can do a heavy beam with IM, which comes out slow and then crossup presumably with time surge for ultron. Or you can just do a high/low mixup… or if any of your lockdown hits you can confirm into a full combo or you can do ultrons command grab. That’s just the tip of the iceberg, but the time stone allows for crazy good lockdown via its other property of making tags have even less cooldown than normal.

Soul stone surge. Basically not used right now much at all… but it’s got a great property… it basically is a short ranged beam for non beam characters… what does that mean? It means you get a “free” normal into time surge into tag that can’t be pushblocked out. I already tested this with IM and ultron and the surge combos off of both their st.hp. Further more, both characters can do cr.hp launch, jhp xx surge xx tag and then the tagged person can continue the combo. This is great because it gives the outgoing character health. Not only that, but it can be done multiple times in a combo. This means time surge combos will become a very important thing for those users. So soul surge is very slept on ATM.

Powerstone will be good on any team that can get in for “free” via teleport when the storm is out.

Mind stone should be hell on any aerial based characters because of the fast unbreakable air command grab (which you can make “safe” with tag)

Space is a crazy reversal, and the surge is good for getting in when tagged (but still limited uses) the tag feature also lets you screen freeze to see what’s going on.

Reality storm can be doubled up via tag and it won’t take reality bar unless the storm particles actually hit (awesome for IM/ultron because I can boxdash whatever and the reality beam will hit the air making my opponent unable to jump or giving easy conversion on hit, or if the opponent stays on the ground I get free tridash pressure that the opponent can’t take great advantage of because if they launch me they will be clipped by reality air beam etc etc)

There’s so much to explore.

1203

I thought it was just called Infinite because of the infinites

1204

I thought it was because of the stones that made the possibilities endless.

1205

I thought it was because of the infinite bitching by the players.

1206

That would mean every fighting game would have infinite in the name

1207

Fixed for you.

1208

I didn’t know that. Do all the stones have a “passive” effect like that?

1209

That particular effect only occurs during time storm, it isn’t a passive effect while just using the stone.

Others that I know of

Power causes some moves to ground bounce

Space doesn’t allow tags

Reality storm only uses reality meter if the storm moves hit, so there’s little reason not to tag in your partner at neutral and get a double reality effect to cover more space

This is sick with ultron because you can do air h beam xx tag and that will cover the air and ground with his h beam, then reality h beam will cover the air, then the tagged in character can do a h special and cover the ground and get massive screen lockdown

1210

And don’t forget that Power Storm negate Pushblock as well. Quiet useful with mixup character like Chun Li and to create scary 50/50 with blockstring and switch.

1211

I thought it was called infinite because it’s the last game and we’ll be playing it forever…

1212

So the new shit that seems to be going around is that the time storm allows people to cancel into button dashes from normals… this would obviously be sick… but I can’t do it or find a video on it being done… are people just lying or misinformed or is there some trick?

1213

That would essentially turn everyone into Marvel 3 Doom which would be kinda ridiculous. I’ll have to research that if it isn’t just some fake news going around.

1214

It would be ridiculously broken, hence the reason why I wanted to see if it’s true, but with no vids of it out or any other mention I’m just going to take it as a lie.

In other news… yo you see Kaz using my shit? Lol, not at all saying he’s using MY shit, just that I’ve been talking about it before I ever saw him or anyone else using it. It was good enough to get him to grandfinals.

Been studying the few matchups that he played to figure out what he likes to do. His style is a lot like mine, air beams xx tag just to cover the air.

I really liked his use of dorm close fireball move tag into ultron. He did this as a kind of pre emptive defense, liked to do it off of a super jump triangle dash down back air fireball.

Justin’s game… man that was just stifling. Instead of using anti pushblock strings like what I’ve been advocating, Justin just seems to go for normal confirms and if he gets pushblocked out, he reacts and does reality xx tag to get back in, then he does another confirm, then reality hits and he gets another confirm and if after all that time he doesn’t have a confirm… he just repeats the pattern. Very simple, but the way Justin does it is very strong.

I’m really looking forward to when he and sonic fox finally play. The tale of the tape will be who gets the first hit I imagine.

1215

Watching SEAM, it’s pretty obvious that the game is moving to where I’d first thought it would go back when the details of the tag system were revealed - using tag to try to remove as much commitment as possible from the game.

1216

No commitment is good. Makes your opponent have to beat you with their skills and buttons not just their ability to downback and delay tech.

This is a oldschool gaming at its finest.

The tag ability is basically the same as assists except better for offense and worse for defense. Before you used to just call assist to lockdown the opponent while you do a mixup or call the assist during a blockstrings to make you safe, now it’s basically the same thing tag during a blockstring to make yourself safe, or tag + special to get dat derp frame advantage…

Good good good (rubs hands together)

1217

This reminds me of something I feel is missing, or is at least downplayed, in newer games - most obvious in Street Fighter V, but other games have it as well. In older games, you could put up a sort of “wall” based on what some would call “cheap BS” that your opponent would need to overcome before they could even get to what most people would call “actual fighting”. If you’ve read Sirlin’s book, it’s what he calls an application of Sun Tzu’s “sheathed sword”.

In practice, this meant abusing stuff like Rose cr.mp in SFAlpha 2, Chun’s fierces in 3rd Strike, etc. In Marvel, this is stuff like Spiral/Sent trap lockdown (which is a classic skill gate since anyone who can’t guard cancel will most likely lose), Strider/Doom, Storm runaway, Cable, etc.

Now MvC:I, mostly likely due to being headed by someone who worked on the classic games, once again has a lot of this, depsite how modern fighting games want to shy away from it, and it’s frankly somewhat refreshing.

1218

its a glitch and with that should be fixed.
when they want it to be a intendet gameplay mechanic the whole cast should have access to it which isnt the case at the moment from what i have seen.

1219

For me it’s extremely refreshing because it means I don’t get beat by bad players anymore… or if I do, I can just pump up my autopilot to get better and better.

I have no problem playing the “real” way. But at lower levels players don’t play the real way at all so it’s hard to beat those fuckers with smarts because they don’t have any yet.

Like trying to play footsies against a lower level opponent just ain’t gonna work. So that’s when you beat em with the autopilot flowchart. Once they can beat the flowchart it’s because generally speaking… they are able to play footsies at a certain level. But in new school games you don’t have that to depend upon so you are at the mercy of the unpredictable newb.

I can’t stand that, personally.

And the funny thing is, it still exists in sf5, it’s just that you need an even higher skill threshold to get there. It tends to be a skill threshold that exists around ultra plat.

Funny because I play against ultra plats better than against golds. I can predict what a good player is thinking, can’t predict what golds are thinking half the time though because half the time it makes no sense.

Bla bla bla.

I’m just glad that this game gets back to the cheaper oldschool shit. Takes me back to my roots. The game is by no means perfect, there aren’t enough defensive options in the game whereas there are a ton of offensive options… but no game is perfect.

1220

When has this actually ever mattered in Marvel?