MvCI Meta and Tier Discussion

[MGS]

Nah, reality is fucking obnoxious. Shit starts up instantly and essentially stops all offense for 2 seconds, it’s way too much utility for just pressing a button without even having to space it/set it up properly. Even missiles didn’t work like this, at least you had a buffer time where you could attack and avoid it before it hit you, you couldn’t use it with the guy in your face.

This guy gets it. reality tag…reality 2 homing projectiles coming at you. at the very least it should go away if you hit the guy.

[DevilJin_01]

The funny thing is Richard Nyguen is not a reality stone user. And he was beating reality stone users left and right. Very crisp Dante movement and Dorm made reality a non-issue for him. I have noticed that people aren’t really using the movement options yet. I think even I have only wave dashed a handful of times in matches so far. A lot of players may be afraid to utilize the advanced movement options because wave dashing has changed back to it’s MVC2 inputs. And it’s easy to get overlaps in the heat of a match.

Eventually people will get their movement down, and once everyone’s movement gets crisp (at least crisp enough to start moving in actual matches), then reality will probably drop down. I remember back in the days in MVC2 when people thought all you needed was Blackheart/Commando/Sentinel and you could beat any team. But once movement improved that team because less effective.

That’s the main reason I like moves like reality surge and hidden missiles as they are braindead defense that force stronger, more planned offense and zoning. You have to play Ryu/Cap/Haggar to get anything close to an invincible assist (and 2 of those characters likely won’t be high tier), so reality is good alternative to force longer bouts of neutral.

[UnSaxon51]

So, uh, remember how Gamora’s guns are basically a big “fuck you” to other projectiles?
And y’know how we were saying Spider-Man might be slightly slept on?

Apparently Web Zip works the same way.
It completely ignores projectile interaction AND gives immediate follow-up opportunity.
Spidey is seriously making a case to become my main character.

[Vyomesh]

So, uh, remember how Gamora’s guns are basically a big “fuck you” to other projectiles?
And y’know how we were saying Spider-Man might be slightly slept on?

Apparently Web Zip works the same way.
It completely ignores projectile interaction AND gives immediate follow-up opportunity.
Spidey is seriously making a case to become my main character.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-Y2euwvulg&t=10s

That’s a nice Super you got there.
Would be a shame if someone…
Web zipped it
:3

[flicky]

He’s definitely gonna be someone I work on over the coming weeks. I’ve just been concentrating on the single player content for now, people get annoyed when you’re fumbling about all the time in ranked so I’ve just been unlocking colours and doing missions so I can get used to the new control scheme, and work from there. I still press only lk to fly…

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

He’s definitely gonna be someone I work on over the coming weeks. I’ve just been concentrating on the single player content for now, people get annoyed when you’re fumbling about all the time in ranked so I’ve just been unlocking colours and doing missions so I can get used to the new control scheme, and work from there. I still press only lk to fly…

Yeah I’ve been doing that also. The transition to mvci has been a bit more difficult than I thought it would be. Hopefully I get adjusted soon enough.

I’m thinking that a Captain Marvel / America team with power stone might be a decent team.

[WorstPlayer]

They need to buff reality surge. I’m still losing.

[Mood4food77]

If reality stone went away on hit it wouldnt be so bad.

[Evil_Canadian]

spondermen is a cheater with webzip!!!

[KiyaaKing]

So, I was practicing combos on different body types to see how much adjustment needed to be made for small/wonky characters and found that all combos generally work the same on everybody. I was then reminded, however, that the EXACT SAME combo does different damage on different characters. For instance, a Spidey bnb that does 6829 on Thanos does only 6574 on Rocket. Anyone explored how this “guts” mechanic works? And who has the highest/lowest? Could be a huge factor when determining tiers, since combo damage is generally the same across the whole cast. It is also interesting that a character like Rocket is given more than a character like Thanos. It basically protects Rocket from rushdown characters, while his low health makes him weak vs characters that can outzone him. I wonder if these values were standardized according to body size, or if everyone has their own.

[Zane_Hitsurugi]

I think I just want to chime in and offer a point of contention with Reality stone whiners. I think a lot of the complains are coming from people who basically want to play MVC3. And by MVC3, I mean they want this to be a 1 player game. They want to to be able to rush in and not give a fuck. Run the mixup train on you, and not give you a chance to play. I find it a bit hilarious how people say reality stone nerfs neutral. When it establishes it. It’s especially good for zoners who need a chance to think and not be bull dogged by people.

Reality stone takes some effort to avoid, but it shouldn’t be easy to avoid. It’s a floating projectile afterall. However with good movement, and perfect pushblock it’s pretty easy to get around. But people seem to want a linear affair where they just run at their opponent and feel there should be no repercussions.

The typical any complaints with a game is whining bullshit aside, the problem isn’t that the reality stone tracks or you can confirm off of it, its the fact that you can do all that and it bails you out after you fuck up and get hit. Its complete nonsense.

[Dime]

Nonsense in marvel.

…nope never heard of such a thing.

[otori]

So, uh, remember how Gamora’s guns are basically a big “fuck you” to other projectiles?
And y’know how we were saying Spider-Man might be slightly slept on?

Apparently Web Zip works the same way.
It completely ignores projectile interaction AND gives immediate follow-up opportunity.
Spidey is seriously making a case to become my main character.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-Y2euwvulg&t=10s

That’s a nice Super you got there.
Would be a shame if someone…
Web zipped it
:3

DELETE THIS QUICK!!!

Deviljin censor that shit before combofiend nerfs it!!!

[DatSpardaUser]

So, I was practicing combos on different body types to see how much adjustment needed to be made for small/wonky characters and found that all combos generally work the same on everybody. I was then reminded, however, that the EXACT SAME combo does different damage on different characters. For instance, a Spidey bnb that does 6829 on Thanos does only 6574 on Rocket. Anyone explored how this “guts” mechanic works? And who has the highest/lowest? Could be a huge factor when determining tiers, since combo damage is generally the same across the whole cast. It is also interesting that a character like Rocket is given more than a character like Thanos. It basically protects Rocket from rushdown characters, while his low health makes him weak vs characters that can outzone him. I wonder if these values were standardized according to body size, or if everyone has their own.

Did some tests with Dante’s f.LP (500 damage) on Rocket, Hulk and Iron-Man until they died. Here is how the scaling goes:

Spoiler

First part is number of hits and the second is how much f.LP was dealing.

Hulk:

1-11: 500
12-14: 450
15-16: 400
17-19: 350
20-23: 300
24-28: 250

Iron Man:

1-10: 500
11-13: 450
14-15: 400
16-18: 350
19-21: 300
22-25: 250

Rocket Raccoon:

1-9: 500
10-11: 450
12-14: 400
15-17: 350
18-20: 300
21-23: 250

Seems that you deal normal damage until ~50% HP then it scales down by 10% less damage until the last 10% or so health where you only take 1/2 the usual damage. The exact thresholds where guts increase seems to be roughly every… 10% more health lost after the initial 50%.

[Dime]

So, I was practicing combos on different body types to see how much adjustment needed to be made for small/wonky characters and found that all combos generally work the same on everybody. I was then reminded, however, that the EXACT SAME combo does different damage on different characters. For instance, a Spidey bnb that does 6829 on Thanos does only 6574 on Rocket. Anyone explored how this “guts” mechanic works? And who has the highest/lowest? Could be a huge factor when determining tiers, since combo damage is generally the same across the whole cast. It is also interesting that a character like Rocket is given more than a character like Thanos. It basically protects Rocket from rushdown characters, while his low health makes him weak vs characters that can outzone him. I wonder if these values were standardized according to body size, or if everyone has their own.

Did some tests with Dante’s f.LP (500 damage) on Rocket, Hulk and Iron-Man until they died. Here is how the scaling goes:

Spoiler

First part is number of hits and the second is how much f.LP was dealing.

Hulk:

1-11: 500
12-14: 450
15-16: 400
17-19: 350
20-23: 300
24-28: 250

Iron Man:

1-10: 500
11-13: 450
14-15: 400
16-18: 350
19-21: 300
22-25: 250

Rocket Raccoon:

1-9: 500
10-11: 450
12-14: 400
15-17: 350
18-20: 300
21-23: 250

Seems that you deal normal damage until ~50% HP then it scales down by 10% less damage until the last 10% or so health where you only take 1/2 the usual damage. The exact thresholds where guts increase seems to be roughly every… 10% more health lost after the initial 50%.

Good work! I’m gonna cruncg these numbers later to get an approximation of total HP for the characters as well as total HP once they have had their their life reduced to half.

It won’t be perfect but it will give us an easier estimation of how much total hp characters have.

[DatSpardaUser]

So, I was practicing combos on different body types to see how much adjustment needed to be made for small/wonky characters and found that all combos generally work the same on everybody. I was then reminded, however, that the EXACT SAME combo does different damage on different characters. For instance, a Spidey bnb that does 6829 on Thanos does only 6574 on Rocket. Anyone explored how this “guts” mechanic works? And who has the highest/lowest? Could be a huge factor when determining tiers, since combo damage is generally the same across the whole cast. It is also interesting that a character like Rocket is given more than a character like Thanos. It basically protects Rocket from rushdown characters, while his low health makes him weak vs characters that can outzone him. I wonder if these values were standardized according to body size, or if everyone has their own.

Did some tests with Dante’s f.LP (500 damage) on Rocket, Hulk and Iron-Man until they died. Here is how the scaling goes:

Spoiler

First part is number of hits and the second is how much f.LP was dealing.

Hulk:

1-11: 500
12-14: 450
15-16: 400
17-19: 350
20-23: 300
24-28: 250

Iron Man:

1-10: 500
11-13: 450
14-15: 400
16-18: 350
19-21: 300
22-25: 250

Rocket Raccoon:

1-9: 500
10-11: 450
12-14: 400
15-17: 350
18-20: 300
21-23: 250

Seems that you deal normal damage until ~50% HP then it scales down by 10% less damage until the last 10% or so health where you only take 1/2 the usual damage. The exact thresholds where guts increase seems to be roughly every… 10% more health lost after the initial 50%.

Good work! I’m gonna cruncg these numbers later to get an approximation of total HP for the characters as well as total HP once they have had their their life reduced to half.

It won’t be perfect but it will give us an easier estimation of how much total hp characters have.

The 11k/10k/9k estimates seem to be about right tbh.

A more accurate way of testing would be picking Reality Stone and whiff jabs to fire that small projectile that causes no hitstun. It deals 100 damage iirc so you can get more accurate numbers easily although it’s quite boring.

[d3v]

So, I was practicing combos on different body types to see how much adjustment needed to be made for small/wonky characters and found that all combos generally work the same on everybody. I was then reminded, however, that the EXACT SAME combo does different damage on different characters. For instance, a Spidey bnb that does 6829 on Thanos does only 6574 on Rocket. Anyone explored how this “guts” mechanic works? And who has the highest/lowest? Could be a huge factor when determining tiers, since combo damage is generally the same across the whole cast. It is also interesting that a character like Rocket is given more than a character like Thanos. It basically protects Rocket from rushdown characters, while his low health makes him weak vs characters that can outzone him. I wonder if these values were standardized according to body size, or if everyone has their own.

Guts scales the same way on all characters and starts at 50%. The different damage comes in because different health tiers reach 50% sooner or later than others.

Health% - Scaling%
50 - 10%
40 - 20%
30 - 30%
20 - 40%
10 - 50%

So, I was practicing combos on different body types to see how much adjustment needed to be made for small/wonky characters and found that all combos generally work the same on everybody. I was then reminded, however, that the EXACT SAME combo does different damage on different characters. For instance, a Spidey bnb that does 6829 on Thanos does only 6574 on Rocket. Anyone explored how this “guts” mechanic works? And who has the highest/lowest? Could be a huge factor when determining tiers, since combo damage is generally the same across the whole cast. It is also interesting that a character like Rocket is given more than a character like Thanos. It basically protects Rocket from rushdown characters, while his low health makes him weak vs characters that can outzone him. I wonder if these values were standardized according to body size, or if everyone has their own.

Did some tests with Dante’s f.LP (500 damage) on Rocket, Hulk and Iron-Man until they died. Here is how the scaling goes:

Spoiler

First part is number of hits and the second is how much f.LP was dealing.

Hulk:

1-11: 500
12-14: 450
15-16: 400
17-19: 350
20-23: 300
24-28: 250

Iron Man:

1-10: 500
11-13: 450
14-15: 400
16-18: 350
19-21: 300
22-25: 250

Rocket Raccoon:

1-9: 500
10-11: 450
12-14: 400
15-17: 350
18-20: 300
21-23: 250

Seems that you deal normal damage until ~50% HP then it scales down by 10% less damage until the last 10% or so health where you only take 1/2 the usual damage. The exact thresholds where guts increase seems to be roughly every… 10% more health lost after the initial 50%.

Good work! I’m gonna cruncg these numbers later to get an approximation of total HP for the characters as well as total HP once they have had their their life reduced to half.

It won’t be perfect but it will give us an easier estimation of how much total hp characters have.

Weren’t these already figured out at something like 9,050, 10,020, and 11-something?

[Branh0913]

I think I just want to chime in and offer a point of contention with Reality stone whiners. I think a lot of the complains are coming from people who basically want to play MVC3. And by MVC3, I mean they want this to be a 1 player game. They want to to be able to rush in and not give a fuck. Run the mixup train on you, and not give you a chance to play. I find it a bit hilarious how people say reality stone nerfs neutral. When it establishes it. It’s especially good for zoners who need a chance to think and not be bull dogged by people.

Reality stone takes some effort to avoid, but it shouldn’t be easy to avoid. It’s a floating projectile afterall. However with good movement, and perfect pushblock it’s pretty easy to get around. But people seem to want a linear affair where they just run at their opponent and feel there should be no repercussions.

The typical any complaints with a game is whining bullshit aside, the problem isn’t that the reality stone tracks or you can confirm off of it, its the fact that you can do all that and it bails you out after you fuck up and get hit. Its complete nonsense.

I feel the same way about people who fuck up and start mashing jab, and then confirm into a big combo. Dumb easy shit is all over the place. I just find the complaint way to prevalent for something that isn’t game breaking. Does it force you to rethink your approach? Yes. Assist in MVC2 were very similar. Captain Commando AAA just about reset every situation, and you could spam the fuck out of it most of the time. I just get tired of the criticism, because it’s a mechanism that actually stop people from mindlessly rushing in (and that’s basically all it does). And they’re calling for it to be nerfed. Just makes no sense to me.

[ES_Curse]

One thing that seems very disconcerting about this game is everyone becoming so… homogenized.

• Combos cap at roughly the same point, most characters can reach it easily
• Health is pretty similar, compare Strider vs Hulk in MvC1-MvC3 to MvCI
• System mechanics like DUD and perfect pushblock let everyone do roughly the same shit

Idk, maybe my Marvel days are just behind me, but the game seems even less expressive when your choices are largely cosmetic with a few main tools that the top teams will always have.

[Dime]

I think I just want to chime in and offer a point of contention with Reality stone whiners. I think a lot of the complains are coming from people who basically want to play MVC3. And by MVC3, I mean they want this to be a 1 player game. They want to to be able to rush in and not give a fuck. Run the mixup train on you, and not give you a chance to play. I find it a bit hilarious how people say reality stone nerfs neutral. When it establishes it. It’s especially good for zoners who need a chance to think and not be bull dogged by people.

Reality stone takes some effort to avoid, but it shouldn’t be easy to avoid. It’s a floating projectile afterall. However with good movement, and perfect pushblock it’s pretty easy to get around. But people seem to want a linear affair where they just run at their opponent and feel there should be no repercussions.

The typical any complaints with a game is whining bullshit aside, the problem isn’t that the reality stone tracks or you can confirm off of it, its the fact that you can do all that and it bails you out after you fuck up and get hit. Its complete nonsense.

Yeah sorry, i dont see it. There were waaay cheaper things in older marvels.

All reality does is force you to rethink your autopilot day one pressure neutral.

Marvel is a gane based around neutral anyways so reality is perfect to me… and i dont even use it.

Come back to me when you have to deal with an invincible assist that beats pushblocking, throw teching, all attacks on the ground and in the air, causes enough blockstun to get a mixup from, is hard as hell to punish and gives full unscaled combo on hit.