Agreed. I’m mostly looking at glitches/exploits for a patch. That’s not uncommon for any modern video game shortly after release.
So far literally the only character specific change I would even consider is slightly shortening the duration of Dorm’s Thorn Carpet, but even that is mostly reactionary and unnecessary.
Nothing needs to be changed at this time. Wait till some real cheap shit comes through.
This is also a series where iceman went from top tier to unplayable
I will never forget those sins…
Damn does anyone know the inputs to those combos?
After our weeklies this week, I can say people definitely sleeping on rushdown Time Morrigan. Grand Finals was FilthieRich (who’s here in the PI for work) getting rushed down by a Morrigan/Dante/Time player. Looks like she has a ton of instant overheads and dirty mixups with Dante and Time Stone. One of my favorites was Spear into Time Surge on incoming.
What does she have that ultron already can’t do, that’s my question. So far the only thing I got is timestone storm fireballs in neutral. If it comes to filling screen with garbage in install, ultron fills screen with garbage just plenty fine too.
Not even a thing with overheads now. Now that I have really figured the ceiling and minimum height needed for j.lk to come out, his trijump lk is basically as fast as a morrigan/jedah instant dash heavy.
I think Morrigan is cool but I just don’t see the point of her right now 
The Morrigan function seems not as useful as the ultron function.
This is damn straight. But I think it’s wishful thinking in today’s current atmosphere. Gamers need “developer” assist. And I do think a lack of patches will cause a huge drop off rate. I mean look at all of the players who played MVC2 at one time, and then completely dropped off from the game. Sure later a whole different player base would really break the game down. But when a game doesn’t get “fixed” we do see an initial crowd go away. I think the same thing could happen here.
I do agree that “patching” a game could do more harm than good. Because there are so many options, developers patch a single thing, and this cause all sort of unintended balance issues down the line. I think until we truly find something game breaking, it should wait. But I do think if there is any rebalance it should be well after a year. People calling for rebalances and stuff like buffs to the reality stone are just being cry babies.
Firstly she has likely better frames than Ultron. One of the things that made Morrigan top tier in the last game was that she had a plethora of moves that were among the fastest start up in the game and protected her well. Shadow blade even though it’s not invincible was as fast as the fastest jab (3 frame) IIRC and now that it’d down down it likely auto corrects without much issue. Can’t flight cancel it anymore, but tag cancel is likely just as good. Her c.LP’s still look strong for defense as she gets rapid fire jabs with seemingly similar hit box for defensive poking and anti airing.
She also has one of the best defensive level 1 hypers with her shadow servant which is also now a down down with a seemingly higher hit box and seems to travel a bit faster than in Ultimate. With how oppressive offense is going to be in this game, characters with built in solid defensive options will be key as the meta goes on. Especially since she’s one of the characters with a frame one invincible level 1 that can be tagged off of. Which can save you from having to burn 2 meters for counter switch and risk getting HBD’d.
Past that if Marvel is like it’s been, there will likely be more tech to improve her movement and offense past what it is now and likely surpass Ultron’s. Ultron has a better meterless mid/far range game with beam super and assists, but it’s not really Dormammu level near insurmountable to deal with either.
I hate continuous patching. It’s one of the things that wears me out in Overwatch where the devs do monthly balance changes - or I should say unbalance changes, since they intentionally make heroes too weak or too strong to force meta shifts. They will nerf something before even people can figure out any counterplay against that.
I think that unless something is really unavoidable and broken - infinites, unblockables, etc - to the point that you can’t win tournaments if you don’t run the same team with the same stone they should just leave the game as it is. It takes time in something as complex as a fighting game to develop a meta and figure out which characters are too weak and which others are too dominating. We all know how often early months meta is shaken after people learned more in depth the ins and outs of the game engine.
Plus Capcom isn’t as incompetent at balancing as, say, NRS. The game as it is doesn’t show any useless or OP character. Let’s wait several months before even talking about the issues to address.
Besides, this thread is supposed to be about the meta and tier in its current state so let’s stick to that.
Which character is being the most slept on ATM? I would say Spidey is probably the easiest suspect with Coon probably after him.
Spidey is my first choice too.
Arthur, Rocket, and Hawkeye are also reasonable possibilities.
Thor deserves a mention just because literally no one is using him.
My issue with people calling for nerfs/buffs is that they’re trying to artificially inflate the amount of characters who can compete at a high level. I think that is the main reason why people call for balance patches. They may be tired of seeing the same 3 or 4 characters. However I think this sets a pretty dangerous precedence overall. Especially when you consider the type of archtypes you may be promoting, and the type of balances changes you need to make to create to make said characters viable. I remember years ago when Viscant talked about how if Ryu is a good character, it represents overall balance, since Ryu does everything well. However is a character like Zangief is good, then this means spacing is nerfed in games. Or if a character like Guile is good, then that means the game lacks offensive options.
In Marvel this may much harder to determine. For the simple reason that both characters compliment each other, and no single character can truly be “balanced” in vaccum. Also some “broken stuff” may even help lower tiers because while the broken stuff is there, it may only be able to be abused by a lower tier character. A good example is Iron Man and his infinite in MVC2. He hands down had probably the easier infinite with probably the most setups. Without the infinite Iron Man is no better than someone like Cyclops. But Iron Man always remained in the competitive landscape throughout MVC2’s lifespan.
This is why I’m not a huge fan of patches. Unless it’s some sort of bug that causes the game to freeze up (and its plausible inside a competitive match), then yeah get those things out. But rebalancing a lot of the times does more harm than good. Remember the clusterfuck going from Super Street Fighter IV to AE was? It because a far less balanced game as a result. This is why I think characters should just be left alone. Even for gameplay glitches like the overhead glitch. Who knows how well lower tiers can utilize it?
Yeah although I’m not sure Arthur will be top tier or not, his ability to support other characters seems good and he’s already been seen a little bit competitively already.
Hawkeye I think provides similar solid support and being able to raw tag off of gimlet sets up so many opportunities for a point character. You basically always get a clear to start offense unless they have an attack/projectile invincible move or hyper. Plus he has some new specials and angles to cover neutral in. The arrow that flies straight up into the vertical space seems to wall people well.
Rocket also seems like another character that is filled with assist support for other characters. These types of characters that are good at flooding the screen for other characters I think will become part of the tournament meta soon enough if not already. It’s the characters that are more designed to have potential on point that will take a little longer to come around tournament wise.
I think I just want to chime in and offer a point of contention with Reality stone whiners. I think a lot of the complains are coming from people who basically want to play MVC3. And by MVC3, I mean they want this to be a 1 player game. They want to to be able to rush in and not give a fuck. Run the mixup train on you, and not give you a chance to play. I find it a bit hilarious how people say reality stone nerfs neutral. When it establishes it. It’s especially good for zoners who need a chance to think and not be bull dogged by people.
Reality stone takes some effort to avoid, but it shouldn’t be easy to avoid. It’s a floating projectile afterall. However with good movement, and perfect pushblock it’s pretty easy to get around. But people seem to want a linear affair where they just run at their opponent and feel there should be no repercussions.
That’s why hidden missiles, jam session, lariat and plasma beam were popular in Ultimate as they were the only assists that really protected you defensively with characters that were strong in the meta. Reality is basically this game’s hidden missiles. It can be dealt with, but it forces linear offense to slow down.
Extremes generally beat it. Oppressive rushdown and push reflects that stop it before it starts or running away and sniping with beam supers or teleporting after it follows you.
I thought we were a civilized community but I guess not. Why do people wanna patch the game when nothing is fleshed out? You don’t just patch shit all Willy nilly. You wait see how the meta develops and you patch to balance it out. Busted characters come down some and you buff the losers. If you start patching without knowing shit then you end up wirh umvc3 where characters get nerfed beyond repair (shulk) and characters that didn’t need it get buffed (zero). Just wait 6-8 months after like 7-10 tournies you will know what needs to be fixed.
Having said that…is it me or does this game need a snap mechanic? Watching tourney play there were instances in which I feel having a snap mechanic would have been beneficial. Also one thing that concerns me is how little time you get to wait before tagging. Maybe it is me but I think it should maybe be extended when the game does get patched. I wanna keep watching that to see the effect all the tagging is having on matches.
I believe the reason they didn’t put a snap back in is because the game is generally designed around keeping both characters alive. The whole system especially with guts and things like that is designed to keep 2 characters in the game as long as possible. The game developers know that having one character severely cripples your neutral and removes your access to counter switches so any combo you take has to be real and can end you pretty fast.
Snapback in a 2 character game designed this way would just make it so you can snipe in a low health character, burn them out and then get what you need to win the match. It’s built from the ground up to be a game where both characters are supposed to be in play as long as possible.
It has to be respected. From what I can tell, that is people’s biggest issue with it. I was at a tournament Saturday, and one guy was complaining about it. Stating that he has to respect it too much. Imagine that, respecting your opponents options in a competitive game! Yes, and reality stone can be beat defensively and offensively. It actually establishes some level of thinking. I quit UMVC3 within it’s first year. But some of the attitudes people are carrying into this game from that game are scary. Did UMVC3 really promote that much fraudulent play?
Well people don’t like autopilot defensive options and reality stone is basically an auto pilot defensive option. It does basically let you sonic boom and flack kick by just pressing a button. You cover a lot of angles simply with one button press and doesn’t really require a lot of thought to perform.
It’s a move where the thought is mostly on whether or not the opponent knows their options to deal with it. It’s the same reason why people didn’t like hidden missiles because it was a pretty set and forget homing defensive option that basically plays defense for you.