Especially from the company that thinks that balance comes from health and not from tools.
Someone was saying how it was impossible to quantify what exactly made CVS2 good, and it’s true, but I’m going to try. It might get the ball rolling.
I didn’t like the ratios (didn’t think they were necessary in 1 or 2), and I didn’t love the music. I was one of those people that switched the music out with other game tracks as soon as I got the japanese DC version, but I wasn’t drowned out by the music when I played at arcades. There was a modestly about the music, and a maturity that was still left over from 3S and MVC2, before the youngins wore cap down with all the “this music’s boring” talk. GG music’s great, but it was really best for GG, even though I did put a lot of those tracks into CVS2.
What I liked about the gameplay was that although it wasn’t an over-caffeinated combo game (aside from A-ism supers), it was a lot more complicated than anyone thought at the beginning. I saw Viscant JD Sagat’s F uppercut with K-groove in a riverside tournament in 01-02, and that sold K-groove for me. I played it when heads in Golfland said it sucked (yeah, they really used to say that), and a lot of them were really surprised when I beat them. Not that I beat Alex Valle often (1 in about 8 to 10), not many seriously used K-groove back then, so he liked to practice against it. He had a theory that if he made me JD a standing punch while I was in the air, he could run to the other side and hit me, as I’d already air JD’d on one side. I wanted him to see what would happen, but the situation never worked out right. Some people eventually respected K-groove, but none of the Japanese that came down to Golfland used it (Bas, Onuki, Tokido…crazy P-groove guy I can’t remember), and no one put it anywhere near #2, where I think it is now.
There was a modesty about the stages, too. Sometimes shit just gets too epic, but i think CVS2 just missed that problem. It had big tournament stages and casual stages, but you could accept that you were there and not in some cell-shaded cartoon. Also, if anyone was in the background, they weren’t fist-pumping up in your face. Half the time, they weren’t even watching.
One of the main problems is that anyone who played CVS2 back in the day isn’t the same person they were. Aside from the probability that Ono will get his soulless, gorilla-drawing paws on it, and the Euro guy will rape our ears with his 3S Remix noise, as we age, we just don’t take things in the way we did when we were younger, nor would we come in to CVS3 from the same games (TT, MVC2, 3S).
Speaking of souls, it’s one of the most important things about a game. You could also call it a personality. It’s what keeps people playing even when there are newer games or even sequels out. I think that’s the hardest thing for anyone who loves CVS2 to explain. It’s a lot of things; music (I didn’t hate it, just didn’t love it), sprites, background animation (a shitload of frames are in those Naomi stages), character sprite frames (one or two frames can make or break a game once we boil down the details), running, hopping, the guard meter, roll canceling (mistake or no). The intro scenes. I loved them. I played the game at least a good decade and I hadn’t seen every single special intro until youtube (missed one with Maki).
Things like that have to return (maybe not the RC). People like Ono would love to get in there and “revolutionize” shit with zoom-in supers, EX zangiefs and super cancels, ultras that don’t fucking leave, but CVS3 should be modesty and maturity.
Even if you can really quantify what’s great about CVS2, no one in cap has a soul anymore. If they want to make a game that’s so different from CVS2, they should do that…and not call it CVS3. TvC was nice and different…well, different. I wouldn’t care if they made CVS3 and it sucked, except that they’d blame it on anyone but themselves. “The market’s just not into that kind of game anymore,” which would only be true if it sucks, but then they’d have an excuse to never try to do it right.
I guess I have a few ideas, but they’re mostly cosmetic. More special intros. Wouldn’t have to be EvE, but there were a lot that would’ve made sense in CVS2 (maybe I’ll start a thread if it hasn’t been done). I might like the other team members standing out in front like kof94. They could cheer for your character or boo they opponent’s, affecting the meter like normal taunts. I was thinking about a groove that reflected projectiles like World Heroes, and maybe had extra recoil against special physical moves like MVC. Of course I’m not sure if that would work, or if it would be too turtle-friendly. A forfeit for a team member might not be bad. You could quit down to your next member as a way to set an in-game handicap, so the scrubs keep playing.
Anyway, I don’t want cap to make CVS3 as they are now, but there’s a very small chance they get it somewhere close to right. Art, character size, character frames, non-insulting music by a tone-deaf Euro, special intros, reasonable supers, balance…pretty much everyone we hope for in all our fighting games. Not much to ask for at all.
My main problem with CVS2 wasn’t really balance (I think A-Groove is the problem, not so much the characters) but the HUGE negative edge window.
CvS3 will be good.
All they need to do is put a restraining order on ONO to stay away from the development of the game. And anybody else who is to blame for most of the BS in Capcom games in this Era.
Hell they need to Fire Ono or make him only the producer of ONLY the handheld Capcom games. That appeals to a more causal / younger crowd.
Keep him away, and I guarantee yall it may not be like CVS2 (because most of the people who helped made that excellent game is not with Capcom anymore). But it will be a Good Quality Game.
Well, to a K-groove…A-Groove was a huuge balance problem. Reminded me of KI mechanics without the combo breaker.
And that’s a big part of the problem: cap likes Heckuva Job Ono, evidenced by the fact that they still let him do things. They need to lock that guy in the vault for the next 60 years or however long it takes for me to drop dead.
What’s negative window?
Negative Edge is when a special move (hadoken, sonic boom) can be done by holding down the button first, doing the motions (QCF/CB+F) and releasing the button. So a move is done with the button going in the reverse direction: from down to up.
That part in itself is rarely the issue, and pretty much no one I know uses it to their advantage. In CvS2, K-groovers can’t, actually, as they can’t JD while holding down a button (Balrog/Raiden fail, is what that is).
The problem is that the Negative Edge creates a bigger window for a move to come out, bigger than most of us want. It’s usually why you see something like a Ken player do a Ducking MK -> Kama Barai instead of the Ducking MK -> Hadoken they wanted. Calls for more precision on our part when it’s a failure on cap’s.
This isn’t Negative Edge, but a timing issue with most of theses games is that when you’re using a charge character (Blanka/Guile). If someone crosses you over while you’re charging, even if you don’t change your direction a fraction, the game notes that you’ve quickly switched directions. If you press a button during that time, you can do your charge move without moving forward. Sometimes it’s cool, other times it isn’t. Just loose definition standards.
Then again, asking for them to take either of them out is like asking them to take out RC (which I think should go), but it’s such a part of the game, sides are torn. Also, having the moves more defined would make it harder for scrubs with clumsier hands, and cap’s more on the side of easy.
stop whining about negative edge. if you dont want negative edge just keep the button held as youre pressing the button that you WANT to come out.
seriously the last time i got an accidental negative edge must have been years ago.
stop whining, learn to play. it isnt all that hard to hold a button down.
The negative edge thing, as well as autocorrect, are both just a symptom of the window for pressing a button after doing the motion being larger than previous games. It’s even larger in SF4 as evidenced by autocorrect being even easier, I never see people complain about negative edge in that game though which is weird.
Bumping this bitch, Digging it out of the FG threads so it can get some breather…and prayfully more signatures and less chitter chat. So we can see this or possibly a re-release CVS2 if they see that were interested in seeing a 3.
IF YOUR LOOKING IN THIS THREAD & YOU HAVENT SIGNED THEN PLEASE DO SO.
I’m mostly interested in a re-release. That would be so awesome.
I hate burst the fans of the og game but if they do make a cvs3 game it will be in the same vain of sf4/tekken x sf if the new capcom fighters gives us any indication.
I would rather move forward and see a cvs3 than to have capcom fuck up ANOTHER rendition.
Fucking capcom and their budgets for rereleases.
Signed
this thread alone is more active than the entire cvs2 section of the forum. I suggest to the ones that have access still to this game either through arcade or console to breathe some more life into it. It would further our cause.
I’m kinda optimistic they will do a CVS3 because the reception for KOFXIII seems largely positive from the community…and hopefully Capcom is playing KOFXIII and taking notes as to what people like about it. SSF4 is what is. MVC3 is what it is. SFxTekken will be whatever the hell it’s going to be…but none of them of are repeating themselves in the mechanics department(let’s forget about Tatsunoko/Marvel for second). If Capcom could somehow find the middle ground between CVS2 and KOFXIII…that might be a nice game.
Signed, Plz hurry with cvs3 now 
Cvs2 is too good, they really should just release an HD remake of the game exactly the way it was
At least for now I would be happy with a CVC2 Online or HD.
^ people been wanting a proper cvs2 with online play for years but capcom dont give a shit.
I think this can work. Get 4 grooves from each this time (add the IV and XIII grooves) and make it so each groove follows the button scheme it had originally.
More diversity from both sides would be nice too (more non-Sf and non-KOF) and bring back the awesome announcer and music.
Edit: after doing some reading I like the “copy 94 through 98” idea with the other team members watching in the background.