MvC3: Magneto: Questions (and Answers) Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
1481

Nice I might try that out just to see how much better the corner carry is than the one I use.

Also, you can probably pick up with Volcano without the height adjustment more easily than most of us because you play on hitbox and inputting 6623 is probably easier for you (to build a dash into the Volcano input). Might help for the really small characters. I don’t know what you’d do though…seems like you’d be limited to Volcano xx Beehive, wall bounce using EMD, Skydance into Beehive…at that point you’re doing no damage, but you’d probably get some solid meter out of it by the end. Can you like call CS and do Volcano TK Million Carats? Stinger+CS into Bold Move into Skydance? I don’t know that assist well at all.

I’d love to see a tech video, by the way!

EDIT: Also Merkyl, I know you said that the kara Blasts are harder on hitbox (maybe not the forward one, but the more complicated ones). My buddy Ram (the X23 player) uses one as well, and I was asking him about what he thought…I’m not positive I understand why that is. Is it possible it’s just different for you because you learned it on stick and now you’re focusing on inputs and delaying the dash slightly too much? For a back one, for example, I’d think that on hitbox it would be easier to consistently hit back and M+H at the exact same time, and once you can do that, you should be hitting the Blasts almost every time. The only reason I whiff them sometimes (besides accidentally plinking M~H…faceplam…) is that I accidentally start the move pretmaturely and put some space in between the 8 and 9 which keeps 8 from still being in the buffer when I get to L. I feel as if that (may be unique to me, but whatever) would be a little easier on hitbox too? Just wondering why you think it’s harder.

EDIT2: Btw, just cause you said “I’m shit at consistently hitting the instant plink blast after the first H dash HxxMB,” I wanted to make sure you noticed that there’s a problem unique to the forward kara Blast…and it’s that you can do it so quickly that you actually hit L before Magneto’s above the airdash threshold. In practice, you can’t really do that with the others because they’re at least veryyy slightly longer inputs, but I wanted to point out that you need to the forward Blast in that combo with a little delay between 896 and M+H~L in order for it to come out. The height is actually really generous, so the window on that delay’s pretty big. If Magneto jumps straight up, you did it too fast, though (or you didn’t hit M+H cleanly I guess). Your word “instant” made me wanna point out that that isn’t as fast as you might be attempting it.

1482

CS is absolutely worthless at the end of a Dante combo. Almost every other dp assist isn’t affected by HSD except for her’s. :confused:

Pretty far into mag’s HSD, you can still do s.H + CS xx HG H so I just get the extra damage from her there.

On hitbox, you can actual do 6136 that the game will read it as a kara dp. I haven’t had a reason to lab it, though.

The biggest problem with hitbox in my opinion is the lack of leniency on diagonal inputs. Aside from that, I’m still having problems with getting 100% clean M+H~L inputs, rather than M~H~L.

The plus side is with the speed on db air dash, it’s pretty free to manually input the dash, then MB. Once some of the other important executions things are muscle memorized, I’ll go back and really lab up plink MBs.

1483

im a week late lol but ty alejandro for tips

definitely leave dorm in after a dhc, unless you don’t like playing him lol

you can technically leave mags in after a dhc if you’re more confident in your mag/dante pressure than dorm/dante pressure + chip

it’s just that you have an opportunity to bring dorm in and set him up, which is the main point of the team

1484

is it physically possible for magneto to hit a j.L off an addf after crossing up a grounded opponent with jump uf M??

like ive been messing around with j.L add cancels to try and get a really quick hi lo game going but you can only add of j.L if you want practical spacing i feel like (if not push guarded you go low, if pushguarded you can either mag blast or block if they pushguard then try to punish). with j.M the startup is a little slower so that sucks but you can addf on hit meaning with the right assist it opens up some pretty sick offensive choices. but like if i wanna try and mix up the opp this way but am down to no assists, im trying to figure out if its like even humanly possible to hit a j.L after an addf off j.M hit. You can hit j.L off a j.M add which is helpful enough, but doesnt cross up. When i do j.M into addf, no matter how quick i hit L it won’t hit the target. Instead, j.L whiffs right as mags ends his descent. I guess its because normals don’t auto-correct if you switch sides that quickly, or maybe they don’t auto-correct at all? I guess theoretically, since mag blast autocorrects it might be possible to plink a mag blast into the L, but this is where im not sure whether thats even possible… a very small window for two high execution things. I’m still learning how to get plink mag blasts down consistently, so itd be almost impossible for me to test at this point. the almost-instant jump j.L and j.M’s dont even hit raccoons dogs and zeros so that makes its practicality even more suspect

1485

technically, yes. The god level of wtf-are-you-a-robot inputs would be j.uf.M special plink dash d/db j.L.

The reality is that you probably couldn’t do it fast enough to not risk getting mashed on but slow enough to actually be a left/right mixup.

Considering every other tool Mags has at his disposal it’s almost overkill to spend a ton of time working on that. You might be able to set up a similar mixup, but rather than use mags to hit after the crossup, just work out the timing so that they have to do a really fast left/right block or pushblock to auto correct (which leaves them open for a possible guard break setup.) Even if they blocked, with certain assist you’d still set yourself up for a fuzzy hi/lo on the crossup side with the blockstun from the assist. That’s honestly scarier than any super high-execution mags setup, imo.

With certain assists, there could probably be some cool stuff where you hit a j.M + assist IOH on the front-side, then fly and try to catch people with reverse hitboxes while in flight?

As far as hitboxes go, his j.M is the best crossup hitbox he has at that range, j.L doesn’t technically have a crossup hitbox but on certain crouching characters he can get crossup hits on addf j.L. There’s probably a few really wide characters that he can catch standing but probably can’t even combo off it on taller characters without assists.

1486

you mean like j.M+ call assist fly then neutral/unfly to normals or j.M + call assist fly dash unfly then more air normals for cross up stuffs? I played around with a dummy and would call x 23 ankles assist uf j.M then fly with the dummy on all pushguard, I think inputting fly as quickly as possible after j.M negates a lot of the pushblock which is pretty cool. been trying to mag blast on reflex after j normals get push guarded but ill try and work this find into the gameplan

im gonna try out what you suggested, provided i know exactly what you mean. i was experimenting with felicias kitty ball assist for creating super safe blockstrings and i think assists like that with crazy hit properties like that or assists with long active frames would work best, so its convenient. have you tried this with weasel shot at all? I won’t be able to hit the lab for a few days

i also found out that, thanks to umvc3s lenient input system, you can up or up-back plinked mag blasts, like u,uf,f,dfMH+ubL, seems like its pretty good for fakeouts and is stylish, but leaves mags at sj height. not sure if this is common knowledge but magnus goin all bison devil reverse is pretty cool

1487

I haven’t really found a use for the up ward Blasts, but I’m not sure really. If you do them from normal jump height and fly, you end up too low for me to feel really comfortable/safe. I’d prefer it out of a superjump EMD into dash cancel up-back to fly around at real sj height, but that’s pretty tight timing for a situation I’m not convinced is much better than just mashing up-back dash to cancel EMD for free.

1488

Got some more matches vs my boy Rambam in case anyone has some time to give me feedback. They’re a little better than the last ones, and a lot of the issues are things I can see and deal with through practice. I still feel as if I’m improving consistently now that I have actual people to play with (had to learn the game online unfortunately), but I do feel as if there’s something fundamentally wrong with my play that’s hard for me to fix because I can’t quite put my finger on it. My fighting game experience is basically…a little arcade/SNES Killer Instinct and COTA…gap of 20 years…UMvC3, lol, so that’s probably part of the issue. Focusing on playing as much as I can and getting experience for now. No excuses on the dumb execution issues, though :stuck_out_tongue:

There are some other sets up as well, but we both get progressively drunker as the night wears on, so they’re probably not worth watching lol.

http://youtu.be/I3iJrajRFzs

EDIT: Merkyll man, I didn’t XFC on X23 in these sets, but I have it in the back of my mind. It’s something I want to do in the point war more generally, but I’m still a little timid about committing to it. Definitely working on it. Also I realize how much I need to stop avoiding Dante air-to-airs lol. Wtf

1489

I’ll try to watch through them and help where I can. :slight_smile:

I should be going over to ATL this saturday for a session / tournament so hopefully I’ll have some matches to show for it, too.

Umm…honestly the play looked pretty solid. Still the XF note, but I felt like you weren’t getting hit by anywhere near as much stray stuff in this set. Felt like your Mags controlled space a lot better against X23 in general. Don’t be afraid to take the free EMD chip when she’s just sitting at ground level full screen. The more you can get her in the air, the more you’ll be able to use JS to shut down dives and CS’s. You don’t really have to worry about holding space until she’s about 1/2 screen.

Don’t forget that X-23’s neck slicer is -1 on block uncharged (free grab) or 0 when charged (forces X23 to guess if you’re going to try to grab or hit a button.) If you ever see him charging that shit full screen, kill X23. Any time you see her flip back and start to charge any of them when you’re not blocking, just up-back. You’ll either chicken block and full punish, or avoid and full punish. Her charge moves are pretty much a no-go without assist coverage.

As far as the dante v IM matchup (these aren’t necc. notes from your set, but I’ve been having to deal with that MU lately so it’s stuff I’ve been running into, too): IM tends to camp at SJ height so favor missiles full screen over drive. When he’s in the corner camping, don’t forget all of Dante’s vertical tools that don’t get used as often. Also, uncharged homing shot (can’t remember the freaking name as I’m typing this) when full screen is a decent tool. Most of those options are better at creating grounded block opportunities to get in with cart. He’s not using RB as much as I feel he should and he’s not willing to use proton cannon as a reversal, so it’s not something you have to worry about yet, but there’s a lot of your pressure that would lose to reaction PC.

With Frank, be careful about throwing out slide > s.S. You do that a lot and you aren’t getting blown up for it, but it’s a bad habit that you should be getting punished for. With lv1 Frank v. IM I probably wouldn’t do j.Tools like you do, RB would punish that for free and Iron Man can link a s.L after RB for a full combo on most anti-air hits.

1490

Thanks as always for watching those man! I hope you get to post some of yours, because I love watching different approaches to Magneto/Jam Session.

I’m gonna talk to Ram about that IM stuff for both of our benefits. He should definitely RB a lot more now that I think about that, but I think he got a little timid with it because I punished it a few times with Frank recently. If Frank chicken blocks it, he’ll actually randomly land in a way that lets him punish regardless of spread, but even though Tools L recovers almost instantly, I should be avoiding that on principle because RB’s hitbox is so big. I’ll tell him about reaction PC as well. He used to use it a lot more, but we play enough that I can kind of see when he’s got in mind and block. Pretty sure it was in those matches when he tried to do it vs Magneto, but I just read it and chicken guarded. Knowing me I probably didn’t punish, though lol. I’m gonna tell him to think about the opportunities he gets for it and see if he can find ways to make it less predictable.

You’re right about Frank’s s.S. I tell people not to use that all the time because it’s terrible lol. Frank’s blockstrings are really bad at level 1 though, so I’m kind of at an impasse on how to approach that…Ram’s really good at pushblocking cr.H xx L Zombie to stuff the Toss, and s.M xx L Zombie loses to s.L. Obviously s.S doesn’t work…thanks for pointing that out. I need to take another look at the ways I call assists during blockstrings so I can focus on pressure/frame traps without throwing out unsafe stuff as often. Kinda feeling now as if ground strings with level 1 Frank are totally to be avoided…focus on counter-calling with EMD and hitting safe air normals with frame trap Snapshot + Jam Session. Any thoughts on that?

1491

Hey Slippaz, I just watched the first set against Ram. Um, I’m going to describe this as best as I can because you suffer from the same mistakes I used to make and a couple of others more until I talked to FChamp about stuff and observed him playing Magneto all day.

  1. You’re way too fidgety about throwing out Disruptor, like you have to understand that the move is essentially a fireball, and throwing it out incorrectly can at the very worst can lead to Magneto dying, or at least they get to advance freely on you which is also an unfavourable thing in Marvel. Understand when you can use Disruptor safely, mainly to punish assists, force them to block assists, punish moves or preempt unsafe character placements on the screen.

  2. Your movement in the air is too linear I basically only ever saw you move in a singular direction, Magneto has the best mobility in the game use it. Remember that if a character wishes to chase Magneto they have to commit in a certain direction to actually keep up with the speed of Magneto so use that to your advantage, and if they can’t actually chase Magneto down then just go full screen and reset neutral. Also you always come down S xx Magnetic Blast that shit sucks if they understand that they need to trip guard you on the opposite side or get within the triangle of safely, change it up with air dash down / down back / down forward S, unfly or unfly and M

  3. You need to stay on the ground as well, you can’t actually be offensive effectively in the air and you’re unable to control neutral if you’re just buzzing about in the air.

  4. Also you were backing off after he blocked your shopping cart assist, which is like the exact opposite of what you should do. I’m assuming you rectified that already.

  5. You need to start calling Jam Session offensively more effectively and not at full screen, observe how great Zero players call Jam Session offensively and try to mimic that with Magneto, and if they get hit by Jam Session at around the top of their super jump don’t bother trying to convert just back off and wait for them to land and reset the neutral game.

  6. Unless you’re punishing a move IAD forward Magnetic Blast sucks.

  7. Be aware of your opponent’s assist and try not to block them because Magneto is one of the few characters that can effectively avoid assists

That’s pretty much it for Magneto, can’t really comment on Frank because I don’t know how to play him, and I could comment on Dante but I wasn’t really focusing on him so I can’t exactly remember what you did with him but good luck man.

1492

Thanks a lot man, this is fantastic! You said you could comment on Dante…do you happen to play Magneto/Jam Session as well? Let me know if you have some matches somewhere of you playing that pair, because I’d love to steal some stuff.

1493

That was some crazy good advice from Palad. Who is that guy lol?

1494

Yeah Slippaz, my main team is Magneto / Doom / Dante and use Disruptor / X assist depending on the match-up / Jam Session, although I’m currently learning Dormammu to handle Morridoom, and I dabble in the other tier 1 teams for fun -Phoenix because my overall defence and decision making is not to the level that I could play her confidently and not just be playing Magneto / Doom.

But Dante will always be my main man, unfortunately I don’t have any matches of me playing because no one really owns a capture card here, plus with our limited player base it would basically be like point Magneto mirrors with different team compositions. But basically I believe Jam Session should be used to suffocate the opponent, like you want to make them conscious about how they behave in the air for the most part; for example if the opponent automatically just jumps, aduf xx fly > plink dash every single time they jump then I abuse that and get free damage and push them to the corner even faster. Basically just like with a number of assists in the game, I believe the main use for Jam Session is to limit the opponent’s options and in Jam Session’s case that is air mobility.

Obviously as I’m sure you’re aware of this Jam Session can also be used to keep the opponent guessing, I don’t really have any like set tricks for this aside from when they’re in the corner and I catch them grounded with Jam Session in which case if I know that they understand what mashing pushblock against Jam Session in the corner leads to then I would jump as Jam Session ends and then do ADDF Magnetic Blast > Throw. Because Jam Session has such little blockstun you can create and even stronger mix-up by adding instant throw attempts. But I basically just try to mix them up with cross ups and abusing the fact that Jam Session pushes you back to make a left right scenario as it ends.

You might want my corner combo extension with Jam Session, but since you’re playing Frank I don’t think you’ll find much of a use for it but if you want to know regardless feel free to ask.

lol thanks BIll, well I’m just your average scrub from Australia who doesn’t get to go to a lot of events and there is no way I’m playing online to waste all the training mode I spend trying to do absolute maximum damage combos with my team. Therefore the only reasonable way for me to improve was to analyse matches of the best Magneto and his decision making in all of them and then apply them to my own matches. Being able to personally ask FChamp questions and watching him play was a great help in understanding how to play Magneto’s neutral at a high level.

1495

I appreciate the thoughts man! I’m switching to Magneto from Nova/Frank, so I’m used a much more Cart-heavy approach to the point war outside of catching superjump flight…and then Frank uses Jam Session in very particular/ridiculous ways that don’t translate directly to Magneto. I’m definitely gonna focus on upping that JS usage more because I’ve heard similar things from several people and you’re all right.

I’d love to hear that extension. When Frank’s in play he gets about 70k at max scaling off of Jam Session, so I assume that’s better than Magneto, but I do end up playing Mag/Dante in the back sometimes if I botch a CC or someone decides to XF Frank and I don’t save him. Usually there I’d do a Mags combo into Dante hard tag just to build the extra meter with ground/wall bounces, but obviously tagging in Dante at max scaling isn’t gonna add much damage. Might be useful to have an optimal extension instead there.

1496

Well sorry but hard tagging Dante is always more optimal because he does in fact do more damage due to being able to use ground bounce resets lol. Optimal Dante hard tag extension is like dash Volcano xx Beehive, dash back S xx Clay Pigeon x5 > Stinger xx BC, Sky Dance, Beehive, Stinger + Disruptor xx BC Volcano xx Beehive xx Million Dollars or DT if you want to tag Magneto back in or you want to get a better incoming mix-up, or just flat out level 3 if you need to guarantee a kill against higher health characters. But I don’t remember exactly the series you need to do to get that extension since I have the luxury of being able to hard tag Doom and use the most damaging THC in the game lol. I know if you start in the corner it’s like either 5/6 EMP loops, but going by that logic for midscreen it would just be like 4 / 5 ROM loops to get to the corner and the last loop being an EMP loop to set up the hard tag.

Corner extension with Jam Session depends on whether your combo pushes them to the point where after a Hyper Grav it is no longer possible to do SJ ADF HS, s.HS, MMHS (cannot happen without an assist), if you cannot do that anymore then after a Hyper Grav do s.H + JS, S, slight delay before SJ, a.H xx H Disruptor > Magnetic Tempest or a.H xx ADF a.S, Gravity Squeeze. However if you can do the above combo then instead of doing that combo you do SJ ADF a.HS, s.HS + Jam Session (make sure that S is like hitting on the underside of the character), a.MMH xx M Disruptor xx Magnetic Tempest, or just continue to S and Gravity Squeeze.

Might as well drop them here, but optimal ‘practical’ midscreen combo is I think 4 ROM loops > 3 Hyper Grav loops but I haven’t been practicing that much since I’m lazy and just do the FChamp midscreen due to ease.

If you’re facing away the corner the optimal way is the Fanatiq side switch into 2 ROM loops and 3 Hyper Gravitation loops, and if your facing the corner the optimal combo is j.L, c.LMHS > EMP loops x3, and after 4th S you do a.H xx ADF with instant Magnetic Blast, s.H xx L Hyper Grav, (I honestly cannot remember if I jump or SJ this part but just mess around with it), jump ADF a.MS, s.H xx L Hyper Grav into extension.

Basically you want to do as many H and S moves before you reach max scaling as they are the fastest way to stack damage which ironically means more damage due to less hitstun deterioration. You then have to balance it out and say at what point to I need to do Hyper Gravs to do more damage, because Hyper Grav does 95000 as opposed to S and H which do 90000 and 83000 respectively.

Anyways good luck and have fun :slight_smile:

1497

Got screwed on my weekend plans, so I don’t have any match videos to share, but here’s some tech videos on why my team’s so stupid to make up for it.

1498

Man though I posted this earlier, but I guess it didn’t go through…those Alpha Counter confirms are dirty man! It’s an underrated aspect of her contributions IMO. Nice to see how you’re fleshing out all angles of that gameplan.

Unrelated and weird question…Has anyone every messed with a way to combo into Hypergrav from a TAC infinite? Sounds kinda dumb I realize (lol), but I’m thinking about how to hard tag out of a midscreen TAC up infinite…only starters I could find used Hypergrav there, and since it removes the superjump state I can’t hard tag off of j.S anymore. J.H doesn’t seem to have enough hitstun even in infinite mode to link an L Grav (surprised me). J.S has enough hitstun to cause a soft knockdown, but the opponent hits the ground before L HGrav is active.

Anyone have thoughts? What’s that one ridiculously long infinite rep that some people do? Maybe if I got more height I could rig something off of j.S…

1499

Still processing, but here’s some fresh match play between Wandles and me (and only a FT10 this time, instead of our awful FT200 sets we normally do.). He’s started playing X-23 point against my team because he’s tired of how shitty the point Hulk MU is. I think she does well against Mags, though. You definitely can’t autopilot against her.

1500

Sick! I’ll be lookin forward to watchin it man. I’ll try to give some feedback…been spending a bunch of time on Dante lately so i might have some stuff there too.