MvC3: Magneto: Questions (and Answers) Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
1421

That’s really interesting sjohn. Seems to make sense, but I’m gonna look at it more when I can get in the lab again. Be really great if we could get something out of understanding the system :stuck_out_tongue:

Wanted to add, after Merkyl, that I looked again this morning with inputs on and I’m positive that I got this:

M+H~S 896 L = J.S (no blast at all)

As before, this was out of superjump xx Fly with no prior dashes performed. If I had accidentally plinked the S it should have given me a dash with unfly or a dash blast with no flight cancel (if sjohn is right above). I think…

Be interested if someone else could reproduce that. I made sure the inputs were clean.

Also Merkyl, I do what you do to unfly as well and I don’t slow it down. But you have to do M+H~S like focus-on-it quickly to keep the l blast from coming out. Felt like the speed of an add.H in fast Hgrav loops. Really fast but not a Splink.

EDIT: Guess it doesn’t matter whether i plinked M+H~S or not… The j.S should just be cancelable since I’m doing a separate Blast input.

1422

sjohn what if you do 896 M+H~S~L but you delay the the plink into S by one frame? It’s technically not a plink anymore but you’re not really counting on a plink to come out, just a j.S. If you delay by one frame, it goes like this now:

frame 1: pick from [dash, blast]: pick blast
frame 2: notice dash input, kara dash
frame 3: S input so flight should get canceled
frame 4: L input, completes the final blast

A possible problem here is you’re extending the delay between the 896 and the L, but one more frame would probably still be within the special cancel window.

M+H~S 896 L not giving out blast at all is weird

This is all too interesting, I’ll try to find a way to get on a console to lab this

1423

I did a lot of mag blasts today.

The short of it is I don’t think magneto can do what we want : a flight canceled mag blast in one motion after he used a dash already.

H+M, S 896 L : I find I can get a MBlast L at the end of this. This doesn’t agree with Slippaz and agrees with Merkyl. If I go too fast (H+M~S ) the S isn’t registered like we noted earlier. If I push the buttons at a speed more like piano’ing and not a slide then it works fine, and I can put in the 896 any time after H+M.
So my inputs end up looking more like H+M 8 S 9 6 L .

(Option1) 896 M+H,S~L versus (Option2) 89 M+H 6, S~L
As before I can’t get (1) to end with mag blast.
I tried option(2) to verify my speed and was able to get mag blast pretty often.
Granted 6 input comes in later in option 2 but I believe the start of the 8 input determines the start of our input window. In theory both inputs give the same amount of time to input Mblast L. They should be fairly close anyway.

  1. I can’t blast, and in 2) I can . I think the lesson to take here is that Plink Blasts do not like having non blast inputs between the Blast-DashCancel Second Blast sequence. Shoving the S between Dashcancel and Second Blast seems to cause the game to consider the special input done with. We do know you can’t do anything like 896 M+H , H and get a Second Blast. The game says that H was already part of a used input and won’t reuse it. So the game is doing some decision making on input. Recall that this system is in place as a leniency system. I suppose that because the game already did a special cancel using 896 it is only going to look for legal inputs directly in the chain. Once it finds an illegal special input for the Second Special, it considers the matter closed.

So we can’t interrupt the Search For Second Special routine with other moves or the game will consider that special satisfied. Put another way, the game is still considering what to do with our first special. It first decided to Blast, then decided to dash instead. It wants to give us a special though so it is searching to see if there is a still an legal input. If it finds L it will do a blast and consider it resolution for the first special. If it finds S, it considers that input done with and moves on.

So if we have S ~ L , it sees the L, but doesn’t see a direction input to trigger a special. So j.S comes out.
Basically, it is looking to quit using the motion inputs as soon as possible but wants to get a special out.
I’m actually more surprised that 896 M+H ~ L trigger the Mblast L at all.

If there were a way to Kara the blast with S and have j.S come out it could work. In Imagination Land if 896 M~S+H gave you BlastM, kara dash maybe. Even then with the rules we know I can’t see it work. S would be a dash input and not trigger a j.S. Having any non blast input after the dash isn’t going to let us blast at the end.

Again the game is happy if we put 89 M+H 6 , S~L . This lets there be no KaraDash and no first Mblast. So we use the regular cancel rules to get Dash, j.S ~ MBlast L. As soon as we get into KaraBlasts the inputs are very restricted if we want to carry them all the way to MBlast L.

Sad news, I know. So cheer yourself with this.

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQAKRw6mToA

If there was an input 896 Super I bet we would still see it come out with 896 M+H, S~M+H . That is, if there were a way to not trigger it with the dash input but still have the motions trigger the second.
Maybe with Nova, and have a Meter Build assist trigger after the first M+H. A bit too involved for me at the moment for that tidbit of info.

1424

Yo not really around today, but wanted to say sick work and thanks for helping me get a better grasp on this. It won’t make a difference in the final outcome (possible vs impossible), but I’m sticking to my guns on there being maybe 4 frames of j.S that aren’t cancelable!

Imma post a video tomorrow when I can lab because I want to know why I’m the only one getting that. Doesn’t change we do in practice, but it might change the explanation a little.

Really interesting stuff.

1425

Sorry for the double post, but this is what I was talking about with j.S’s uncancelable window. I shouldn’t have stated earlier that this had anything to do with how fast you hit M+H~S. Clearly that doesn’t make any sense and I was confused lol.

Still, anyone have ideas on what I’m getting here?

EDIT: Sloppy/rushed quality I know. I had to put it together on a computer that’s not quite up to smooth recording. Apologies.

1426

Wow. I am really curious. Is it only not Blast cancellable? That would be the first thing to try, I think. Find if other specials work or not.

Can we get 896 S , L to not work?

Regarding H+M~S : it is my belief that the first frame of dash is committed. Frame 2 and on are cancellable into normals.

1427

Man I forgot to lab that when I got to play again today actually. Probably it’s all air specials, but if it’s just Blast I guess the reasoning was that Magneto’s mobility would be too good if he could dash everywhere and still kara Blast out of flight? Shrug (I say that taking this as a possible reason you can’t do 896 M+H~S~L, but your reasoning might apply there as well who knows). I’ll def post the results when I get to test it, but do the same if you lab first if ya don’t mind.

Had a question on another topic though…Dante gets a full combo after triggered Forcefield xx Tempest xx DT. You can even Volcano them out of the air and do the Airdash C shenanigans, so you have some solid hitstun to work with. I’m not sure what would be optimal, though…you have enough time to Million Carats, but I’m not sure what I’d follow that with or whether it would actually be a good use of hitstun at that point to just Million Carats into shot loops or something. Spacing doesn’t look great either. You can j.S (not sure about Hammer)…jump forward and do Airplay stuff or Volcano (or dash Volcano neutral jump which gives slightly better spacing) into Airplay into Shot Loops.

Anyone ever labbed that? Realize it’s more of a Dante question so Imma post it over there, but a lot of us seem to use Mag/Dante here anyway :stuck_out_tongue:

Personally I’d really prefer to find a hard tag combo with Dante, but I’m not sure how practical that’s gonna be outside the corner. I could possibly do a Devil Trigger combo with Vortex’s into Skydance hard knockdown though…that seems like it has some potential actually (for me). But then again I could Million Dollars XFC and kill with Frank at that point too, so there’s that.

Def lmk if anyone gets an idea from the above!

1428

Mannn, so I was labbing neutral execution the other day and starting going ham on a method I’ve never seen anyone actually use (that I remember), but that I’m sure some of you have done…think it’s kinda cool.

You know Champ talked about that “inverted Tigerknee Blast” motion at some point for Blasting on the way up? Like 369896 L so you can kara Blast around the peak of superjump? I assume the logic is that if you SJ and try to Blast instantly without that you get a manual dash (game reads up-forward, up, and you dash)…gotta keep the stick from going to neutral to prevent that, whatever.

So I was trying to tighten my kara Blasts up and started using the same logic, and it lets you Blast sooo much lower. Like with this: 378961 M+H~L (no letting the stick move to neutral) you just tridash backwards at normal jump height-ish throwing out Blasts with essentially no recovery. If you do dash back into that motion, you move away ~3/4 of the screen with an instant Blast in front of you. Works best with down-back blast because his down-back airdash is slowed down (noticeably lower height threshold than down or down-forward), but it means Mags is just tridashing backwards with built-in Blasts over and over again…also interesting for kara Blast up-back, for example, where you get a little more height than you normally would and can fly more safely.

And looks pretty cool if you do it off an up-forward superjump (so 198961 M+H~L)…basically looks like normal jump forward instant down-back Blast.

Anyone ever use that? Seems like a nice way to expand Magneto’s movement options in at least some matchups and it’s surprisingly easy if you already have your Blasts down.

EDIT: Post below shows I realized I was wrong about the threshold for down-forward. Doesn’t seem to be a difference really.

1429

I’m definitely going to try this tonight.
My lab sessions recently I was practicing 171, M+H 47896 L . Similar idea to yours but less effective. It is just giving up on plink blasts for an easy defensive movement. I found myself moving from downback too early so I just practiced buffering the 171 while grounded and holding it until the right height in the air.

With your way maybe it can be one smooth motion.

1430

So I labbed it a little more today and you get some pretty hilarious movement options out of it. The Blast eliminates that little hover you get on Magneto’s airdash down-back, so you land really quickly and can immediately superjump and do it again. I can just “do it” right now, so I haven’t maxed out the speed, but I was chaining them pretty quickly and it’s really interesting.

It’s not a perfect “one motion” because if you do it perfectly smoothly, the addb.Blast doesn’t quiteee come out. Perfect height seems to be around the equivalent of max normal jump height (except you get there faster bc superjump).

Timing for P1 side sj up-back addb.Blast would be: 37 (slight delay), 8961 M+H~L, almost immediate 37 (slight delay), 8961 M+H~L for as long as you want. It’s definitely not “easy,” but the difficulties that I was having should be pretty easy to address with practice:

  1. Don’t delay after the superjump and land before Blast goes active
  2. Focus on the new directional inputs and don’t hit H+M at the same time as the 1 (directional), so you miss the buffer window
  3. Brain isn’t used to being able to superjump so fast after addb, so there’s too much delay between the Blasts I’m chaining together

Motion itself…starts to feel smooth and 1-movement-ish after a few minutes. Doing it on one side for a while and switching to the other was different enough to provide a nice mental reset and I was better at the respective sides each time I alternated.

It works at the same height for addf.Blast as well, so you can do some pretty amusing stuff with like [378961 M+H~L]x3 into [198963 M+H~L]x3 or just sort of stay in place for a while by repeating 198961 M+H~L.

I don’t if that’s actually useful, but it makes Magneto’s movement look ridiculous lolol. Shitload of fun.

I gotta say once you do that for like 15 minutes and go back to the regular “advanced” kara Blasts they feel muchhhh easier. At the very least it’s the best movement/Blast practice I’ve found.

Gonna practice it for like a week and post a video of what it looks like if I can actually get it at a speed I’m happy with.

EDIT: Also makes me realize I never superjump when I’m doing a normal jump backwards Blast…but it’d be useful for getting you above beam height more quickly, and wouldn’t really add any difficulty execution-wise…just 28964 M+H~L.

EDIT2: Yes I realize I’m really fixated on Magnetic Blast these days lol. This character’s neutral is just way too much fun to me for whatever reason.

1431

I wish some of you guys played hitbox so you could know my pain when it comes to plink magblasts. T.T

It’s literally the only thing I think is harder on hitbox than stick. :confused: (I’m fairly certain the input leniency that exists almost everyone else doesn’t extend to 896 motions to the same degree and getting the plink dash direction after the 896 input on hitbox doesn’t seem as lenient when you’re not just riding the gate.)

1432

That surprises me man. Never used one though, so I can’t imagine how it would feel lol.

Least you can input 19 cleanly…I can barely do that directional on stick it’s mad awkward :stuck_out_tongue:

1433

oh my god yes, 19 and 37 are bitch inputs on pad

i get shit like :d: :b: :d: :ub: :u: :f: :uf: :u:

that’s why i can never fucking do the fucking rom on a fucking d fucking pad :mad:

1434

Yeah, on like 99% of all the possible inputs you might do in Marvel, I think Hitbox is vastly superior. It’s just Mag blast and Mag Blast + plink directions that suck.

1435

Lol forte, yeah I actually just started labbing 19 against yesterday because I realized doing 3698961 all the way through was ridiculously uncomfortable on P1 side…When I try to ROM on that side I get TK Hypergrav at least one out of 5 times…shit’s embarassing lolol.

So…did enough of those superjump Mag Blasts last night to feel a little early-stage carpal tunnel…IMO it’s a lot easier to do it off of superjump up-back than up-forward because when you up-forward…you have that awkward little single tick from up-forward to up before you Blast. Up-back gives you a nice sweeping motion and it’s definitely easier. Both totally practical, but I think it’s gonna take more practice than I thought to actually get those at full speed. Can kinda do it on P2 side…looks really sick actually.

After looking at it more, I also think doing a really low 198963 kara Blast has some advantages over a regular forward Blast (not sj down-forward from higher) when you’re trying to create horizontal pressure. Magneto lands much more quickly, he spends far less time in a state where he can be grabbed, there’s a 0% chance of an opponent’s movement making you sail over them like an idiot…Blast hitbox is more favorable in terms of interacting with other projectiles.

Might actually be a technique with some solid applications. Plus we all snap and go ham sometimes come on…XF3 Magneto tridashing around so fast he looks like he’s riding on the Blasts he throws is pretty hilarious lol.

1436

I found magnetic blasts to be really easy on hit box when I started using my left thumb for the up button and just treating it as a left hand plink. For everything else I use my right thumb, but it’s way easier to do mag blasts with the left.

1437

Yeah, I never found a consistent way to do right thumb mag blasts. Basic mag blast motion takes a little bit of practice, but it’s nothing super hard. I think the plink mag blast when you’re trying to end on a diagonal is what’s stupid. I can pick up a stick (after literally not playing a match with one in 3 years) and do plink mag blasts almost free but on hitbox it’s bearable and I can hit them reasonably well in the lab, but I think I’ve only successfully pulled and handfull off in a real match.

It’s easier (and only slightly slower) to do manual input dash > mag blast on hitbox so I tend to use that for my sj db/df mag blasts and neutral jump iadf MB. The speed only makes a huge difference on the low addf and sj. add MBs.

1438

So I’m updating all my infinite starters to avoid using Hypergrav (so I can hard tag Frank)…been meaning to this for a while, and it’s easy in the corner, but after watching about 30 videos from the infinite thread, I’m wondering what people settled on as stable midscreen versions…

Down: Looks like TAC, j.M adf.H xx Fly into H Loops

Side: TAC, delay, add.M xx Fly into H Loops

Up: Don’t think I saw one that looked particularly stable here…thoughts?

Also, I tried a couple different desktop browsers + mobile and the Spoiler-embedded-in-Spoiler layout in the infinite thread seems broken…Hitting “Show” on the main Spoiler displays the embedded ones…hitting “Show” on the embedded ones then closes the main Spoiler instead of opening the newly revealed ones. Just in case anyone that’s active has Mod on here…or maybe I’m just an idiot lol.

1439

I have the same problem on nested spoilers. I think you can quote the post to read the stuff inside, but that’s a pretty lousy workaround.

for midscreen, I only have a Down TAC atm. I use the TAC > j.LMH adf H fly (reverse input) > fly loops.

Anyone have any tricks to getting the infinite starter out of midscreen fly loops, though? I can’t get a timing locked down that’s super consistent. :confused:

On the note of infinites, I’ve finally started getting to the point where I’m hitting infinite > double dirt naps with my new team (off either CC > Mags inf., corner hypergrav hard tag > mags inf, or TAC past X23 > Dante infinite). Pretty excited about that.

1440

I still need to update that thread to completion. I’ll lab out one day when i can and finish it. Sorry guys.