I wouldn’t mind it but if they were to do that to her they would probably also slow the speed of the move and I wouldn’t want that either. The 3 frame start up makes it really cheap with a horizontal assist for mix ups once you get in.
Some people are complaining about the lack of invincibility frames she has on moves…I mean how do you think Wolverine players are feeling? The only real one invincible tool they had to get in (although it was a bit overpowered since it self crossed up into combos) pretty much got taken away. None of his super moves really do any good to get him in on lame and unless they buff one of his tools with some clear invincibility X-23 is looking like she’ll be doing the better job getting in.
X-23 has a ton of tools to get around projectiles including a level 1 that has a hit box that covers almost the entire normal jump vertical space and is invincible for 60 frames. Plus a wall jump that instantly thrusts her forward at the opponent while she can call assists for clearance and allows her to block and do all of her air specials during. She also will still most likely have the fastest wave dash in the game and M/H talon attack + strong horitzontal assist has always been one of her best clearances to get in. Even if you won’t get the hit confirm/damage you used to off Akuma tatsu, running that shit when you get in with her M and H talon attacks is gonna clear a lot of shit like usual.
With X-23 you just have to be comfortable with your movement and be ready to press something when it counts to get in. There isn’t just one go to move to get in but if you pick the right movement for the right situation you’ll definitely get in unless the entire team is based around lameout. Which in that case just safe DHC with Weapon X Prime into someone else or just raw tag into someone else you should have on your team that can help you out through the lame. If you can clear up a lameout team with another character X-23 can surely tear down the rest of the team with they have less assists with her own assists.
Overall…I think X-23’s biggest issue in Vanilla was her offense being rather limited by Haggar/Tron assists. Not that she was at the grand finals of a bunch of majors or anything but from my experience and from what I’ve seen with happens to character like her in Vanilla…those 2 assists are the biggest issues. Tokido’s Wolverine went out early at Evo pretty much because of Haggar assist and it’s not surprising that Haggar assist helped win Evo also. Now that it and Tron are getting nerfed that will help a lot against the only real huge issues X-23 had at high level play for getting in and staying in. Especially since she has one of the game’s fastest XF2/3 speeds. Putting X-23 in the second spot with a good assist can give you that extra speed boost you need to get in and stay in vs. the lame outs and set up level 3’s also.
In general there has to be a bit of a struggle for X-23 to get in because she’s pretty much broken once she frame traps you with all of her assist and MFC options.
They are a problem for X-23 as after all, they’re pretty much a problem for anyone that uses more than just projectiles, but I think X-23 can deal with them relatively easily, if the player predicts the assist calls. For one thing, X-23 can preemptively M Mirage Feint to catch Tron’s back, or instead, just time a good crouching H (as everyone knows). Another cool thing about her is that her ground speed allows her to space herself very easily, so if you know it’s coming you can dodge the assists and go right back in - I do think this is the best thing to do generally. And also because of her mobility, if the opponent’s current objective is to be offensive, unless they have a really good trick planned out, their assist will help nothing as X-23 can just run and jump away from whatever (needless to say that considering that they’ll have to use another assist, and the moment they do is the moment to go forward and strike).
But one thing’s for certain, trying to attack a Magneto or Dante, maybe Taskmaster too, with one of those two assists is a nightmare. Tron and Haggar really add up to their defense, especially to a straight-forward character like X-23.
Yeah I could see there being an issue if all of those zone characters were in the game and still had access to vanilla Tron or Haggar there would be problems. That’s why zone was so strong in MVC2. Not just because of the projectiles but the shit you had to go through even when you got in. In MVC3 it’s just get in and then stay in cuz very few assists can protect you once people get in unless you get lucky and the assist somehow hits them without getting 2 for oned.
Personally I don’t find Haggar assist to that big of a deal with X-23. The hardest part is remembering Haggar is there, and then not leaving the ground when he could possibly show up to ruin your day… I’m pretty sure c.L c.L c.M c.H done as slowly as possible and then canceled into Rage Trigger will let you hit the point character and then pick up the Haggar assist when his invincibility runs out, I’ve done it in a match before but I keep forgetting to investigate this setup more to see what kind of leniency there is on the timing.
I just came up with a bunch of stuff last night I think is mad cheap, will still be applicable in UMvC3, and uses X-23. Hopefully I’ll have time within the next few days to record it all. it is specific for my team of Wesker/X-23/Akuma for the most part though.
Yeah it’s definitely not impossible to get around…I’m just saying of all of X-23’s challenges…just like most of the rest of the cast the biggest issue is Haggar shutting down all mix ups for a whole second. Good Haggar assist users will use the threat of Haggar to run mix ups around you and shut down yours. Which means they don’t even have to call him to set up mix ups once they get in. If your opponent reduces you to mashing on crouching normals for offense they’ve pretty much won in a strategic sense any way.
Now that the assist works like an MVC2 assist the opponent can no longer reduce you to c.L for offense even if they get hit. No more invincibility on the first frame means you can go in with what you want instead of just c.L. You don’t wanna be doing nothing but c.L against characters like Wesker or Zero. You’ll never land a hit.
I asked a guy who apparently has a review copy of a recent build of Ultimate about the ability to combo from Crescent Scythe into Talon Attacks, and this was his response:
“The only Talon Attack that hits after Crescent Scythe appears to be Talon Attack H, not L or M. Scythe knocks the opponent out of range for the Talon L or Talon M no matter what stage of the Scythe it appears to be cancelled at.”
That’s a little disappointing imo. Was hoping we’d have new combo options by looping between CS and Talon Attack L. Can’t think of anything useful that can be done after CS -> Talon H.
I wasn’t expecting full combos after CS to L or M TA either. At best you’ll be able to cancel the recovery of CS into L TA so you don’t have to worry about not being able to attack or block and start more pressure. At least you’re not a sitting duck anymore if you whiff a CS.
Well, that sucks. I assume it won’t work in the corner either because it’s the vertical push that ruins it. Assists might help keep the opponent in place, but in that case it won’t really change much in relation to MvC3. But hey, there’s always CS, H Talon, X-factor, air combo, right? I REALLY hope so.
In any case, the cancel will be the subject of much study once Ultimate comes out. We’ll see what good will come of it.
Not sure what combo you have in mind here. IMO one of X-23’s biggest weaknesses is how difficult it is for her to convert aerial hits into full combos. After CS, H Talon, XFC, where do you go? From that height L Talon won’t convert into a ground combo, and she can’t fly or double jump to stagger hits until she’s grounded. I think L Talon deserves a floaty soft knockdown property like Zero’s lightning dive (that bastard gets full combos off any little touch) so that she has something reliable to turn air hits into damage. We’re not getting it though.
if anything, at least we have a new GTFO option from corners =D
plus it’ll be useful to keep pressure/kill pushblock if your CS gets blocked. even without a possible combo after its still a neat buff imo.
If you do it early enough in the combo, L Talon should convert to a ground combo, even at superjump height. Don’t know how fast hitstun scaling will take effect in Ultimate, though. Should work at regular jump height, at least.
At the very least, CS, L Talon will get you a strong ground-to-air mixup for characters with limited air mobility.
And personally, I’m just happy for a consistent air escape move - I can’t tell you how many times someone did a random beam super on me and I got a CS instead of H Talon due to the freeze.
Has anyone tried using Skrull’s Tenderizer assist to set up Dirt Naps on incoming characters? Seems like it would work, but I won’t be able to check it out until tomorrow.
Come on, everyone’s running her first or second anyway right, so you’ll have assists for these kinds of things (people need to get rid of that damn Wesker assist and get some utility lol).
That’s probably one of the most solid ways to guarantee it. There’s a guy locally here that plays Viper/Skrull/Doom, and the amount of lock down on the Skrull assist on screen-in is crazy. I’d definitely use it if it’s part of your team.
Yeah, it seems like the best assist for air lockdown dirtnaps, the only problem is about half the cast can duck it if they’re on the ground.
Still, I think I’m gonna try Skrull/X-23/Iron Man. I can either give Skrull full reigns with Ankle Slicer unblockables and Unibeam for safe meteor smashes or DHC/TAC out to X-23 for the Dirt Nap setups. And even if Skrull dies I still have X-23 with a solid beam assist to play with. Sounds fun.
X-23 = best reset character if you get them to the corner.
surprised she wasnt used on phoenix teams. I guess its cause of the fact you have to risk going in against the opponent whereas wesker can just gun all day and hitconfirm off it.
I think a lot of the reason she’s not on phoenix teams, are due to the low health, the relying on assists, and poor meter gain in comparison to some other points. Why would you pick her over, Magneto, Wesker, Wolverine? I think the meter is the biggest factor there, and X-23 really doesn’t bring much to the table that’s “exciting” for most players, who are looking for something interesting.
Actually, I think that’s why she’s not used too much at all to begin with. I’ve always been a big fan of the character through the comics, so you could probably count me out of the X-23 list if I didn’t have an affinity before hand.
What do you guys look to accomplish in matches with X-23’s MFCs? I’ve been practicing them lately and I can do them pretty consistently, but I’m not really sure how to apply them in matches outside of a raw :h:x5 combo.