There only character I’d agree with you with is wolvy. Phoenix is not a threat outside of XF’ed phoenix. Mags,Dante and ammy are not very scary, it is not tough to just block them. Wesker is the second most “wtf” character next to wolvy, he is such a brain dead character with easy self OTGs/grabs/command grabs/ easy lvl 3 combos and great health.
The DHC trick does not need patching, its XF that needs patching.
Back to X-23 and her command grab. What are the best ways to set this up? I usually just try to throw it out randomly, but I know there have got to be safe ways to throw it out without worrying about a random hyper taking out half of your life. I would really like to incorporate it into my gameplan but I can’t figure anything out. btw I’m using X-23/Task/Akuma or X-23/Task/Ammy
You’ve never played a good Phoenix then… legit Phoenix players are few and far between but she is a threat dark phoenix or not. If you don’t kill her right as she comes in vs a good player you will probably never get a clean hit on her. Dante is easy to block? MAGNETO is easy to block?? … my problem with Ammy is how flowchartable she is. one of the easiest characters to play in the game, right behind wolverine
I just find it ironic that we went from “No way, X-23 is better than Wolverine for sure!” to “Well, Wolverine is okay I guess” to “Aw dammit, Wolverine breaks the game” lol
I’m really tired of playing online X-23, I want more practice with live opponents because it’s a totally different game for X-23 offline than online. Oh well.
Yeah lol, I was the one who originally felt that X-23 was better than he was. Now I feel Wolverine’s a more stable choice than X-23 because of higher health, his gameplan’s far easier to execute, requires less execution for similar damage output and he has more flexibility in terms of comboing into his hypers. But flat out better than X-23? I know people will definitely disagree with me, but X-23 hasn’t reached her peak yet and I believe she has unique things to offer that separate her from Wolverine. I feel X-23 has more variation and scope to her offence and isn’t a one-trick pony like Wolverine, but not many people want to put in the work with X-23 when you can press buttons with Wolverine and get results for much less work, at least not right now anyway.
Dante’s got so many tools(that I should be using lol) and can play various roles in matches. His offence is at it’s best when backed up with assists and he’ll definitely open you up. Without assists, his offence is a bit weaker, but considering the amount of tools he has at his disposal, that’s fair game. Using 1 assist and 1 DHC into Trish’s Round Harvest, Dante can kill every single character in the game from 0 bars, using a very practical combo. You should be very scared of Dante because it’s only a matter of time before he gets mastered. Dark Phoenix without X-Factor is less of a threat because she has to worry about chip and the player can’t roll their face on the pad and wipe your whole team out, but she’s still a threat because if she touches a character, that character can die instantly, it just takes a bit more execution. She’s still got big damage output and she builds stupid amounts of meter. It’s pretty weird that you feel Magneto isn’t hard to block though. Don’t know much about Amaterasu.
I know Wolverine’s the big bad wolf right now, but ultimately, I don’t think he’s better than Dante, Zero and other characters, who I feel will end up being the true threats of this game. They’re just not as easy as Wolverine and a lot of their potential isn’t being brought out right now, but it’s only a matter of time.
X-23 is terrible online, there’s no point using her haha.
As for setting up command grabs, use assists to cover your command grab attempts. A good idea would be to use a string with an assist covering you, then go for the command grab.
Ammy in the right hands is scary as hell. She has instant overheads on the entire cast of characters, her slow-down hyper makes her opponents into worthless chumps (including Wolverine) and her air throw range is retarded. For those players who can read their opponents well, her counters are among the best in the game because they come out fast and can’t be done too early like Wesker’s. Her normals are very safe on block and advancing guard doesn’t stop her approach well, the worst thing she has to worry about when she has you in a block string is being advancing guarded and whiffing the next attack which is certainly punishable. In fact, that’s pretty much the most reliable anti-Ammy strategy I’ve seen used against me or even in tournament play. Her sword form is really nasty and under-used, and beads gives you access to some solid zoning tools.
On top of that she can finish and start the DHC trick and her X-factor combos last long enough and the scaling is so low that it doesn’t really matter how little the damage boost is, she’ll get you anyway.
RE: Decapitating Slice, DJ is right, use it with an assist. On incoming characters who can’t escape to the air on the way in, call Ammy Cold Star assist (which keeps them in air) and time your command grab so it hits them the moment they hit the ground. Great trick I learned from ETR.
The only time I’ve used Ammy’s cold star assist on an incoming character would be for the dirt nap setup, but I’ll keep the DS in mind next time, thanks!
There’s actually quite a few ways to set up her command grab. I wasn’t really going to do any videos on it till i learned enough about the game’s blocking system. Which basically my next video will show how to blow up advance guard and utilize her command grab effectively. Generally any kind of assist that keeps it safe if it doesn’t land like a projectile assist is fine. It’s not terrible if you whiff it as long as you have an assist to cover your whiff.
Generally I’m sure the reason they kept X23 the way she is is because her level 3 is designed to make teams crumble and they were probably afraid that would get out of hand if she had too much more health or braindead hit boxes like Wolvie/Zero/Ammy etc. You have to set up X23 in a way so that she can come in either ready to dirt nap down the rest of the team with an assist or just kinda clean up whatever is left. She’s not really the type of character without meter that can absolutely run through teams like Wolverine.
She has more mobility than most of the cast and the game’s best wave dash but she doesn’t really have any tools that straight go through projectiles like Wolverine other than a level 1 super that she can’t even DHC on block. Although that’s probably because the super travels full screen extremely fast and has 60 invincible frames (after about 4 to 6 frames of vulnerable start up). Once she gets in though with execution she has one of the scariest pressure games in the game. Advance guarding against an X23 that knows all her MFC tools and setups for command grab will just get you hit very fast. Sitting there blocking will get you thrown which sets up a left right wave dash mix up or overhead mix up with H mirage feint or command grabbed still.
Allow me to explain. The other day I was being zoned out pretty hard by this Dormamu, Magneto, Taskmaster team. My Zero was dead and I was left with Dante in back and X23 on point. I got a little tired of the bullshit and wasn’t thinking too well and just team super-ed from full screen. And it worked! Most of rage trigger missed at that distance, but million dollars kept hitting them long after her super was done. I charged a neck slice and combo’d after the last hit into a simple launcher combo (for about 2/3’d of a bar) and then went into a DHC reset to kill him.
Sure it was a 3.3 net loss of meter, but I got to kill a character from full screen away with an incredibly long lasting projectile safe backing me up, and without x-factor. If they x-factor to safety, I x-factor and go for mixup shenanigans off of Dante’s super. And even if none of that works, I’m still in there and not trying to get through their zoning anymore.
So…why don’t more x-23 players use team supers to punish things from really far away? Most x-23 teams I’ve seen would have at least one character with a projectile super on their team and it would really blow up some of the stronger zoning strats (not to mention you’d be able to blow up assists by doing team super and x-factoring)
^
To be honest, my X-23 is always on point and she usually doesn’t get to take advantage of it because she usually dies off at some point loI. In general, yeah, I should probably use it more.
Those I know who don’t play X23 always claim she’s too difficult to learn, over the likes say Wolverine who can get off 600k combos with ease. X23 has the tools for a breakout, this should never be questioned. She can exploit DHC glitch, great mixups, great LV3, I still believe that one day somebody is going to break her out and will be seening more X23s in tourneys. She does has some bad matchups like Zero or FC Dorm, but good X23s can overcome them. I already figured X23 wouldn’t be better than Wolverine at launch, but I didn’t think Wolverine would have so much priority and dmg scale.
Yeah online, lag spikes makes X23 unplayable. I HAVE gotten a few feint combos/mixups off, so it’s not entirely impossible. But, the reason you see so many Wolverine’s over X23 online is because his combos are easier to execute, even in lag. Most X23s online are garbage, I think I’ve seen one person do a simple air combo into OTG Ankle SlicexxxRage Trigger. ONE! I do X23 mirrors on purpose because I want to test my opponents knowledge with her, and I come away unimpressed everytime.
I don’t use team supers with X23 in it often, I’d rather save my meter for Dirt Nap. I think X23 was designed to be a anchor in this game, but nowadays I start her first also. I think her best spot is that second slot, XF2 on X23 is just as dangerous than XF3 X23.
Can anyone confirm if Rage Trigger eats your wall-bounce for a combo? I’m combing from it into Trish’s Round Harvest, then raw tagging in dante to do his massive string of specials… but Stinger isn’t wall bouncing like it normally does for other characters I’ve done this with.
Stinger wall bounces normally however if I use Weapon X Prime (and DHC Glitch with Round Harvest). Since that’s the only thing different about the combo, I have to assume it’s Rage Trigger’s fault?
Hitstun decay seems to kick in after Round Harvest which won’t allow Stinger to wallbounce or further hits beyond OTG BeeHive and other stuff. DHC glitch resets hitstun to a agree, allowing you to land a wallbounce afterwards and connect more stuff. Very nice to know that Round Harvest definitely combos after RageTrigger, so that means even without the DHC glitch, X-23, Trish and Dante will still be able to oneshot everything easily lol. Unless, Capcom nerfs Round Harvest/Acid Rain.
And yeah Ephidel, I believe X-23 will break out as well. The tools are there. It’s just a matter of time.
Yeah, X-23 full combo -> Round Harvest, raw tag to Dante easily gets the damage up and over 900k on 2 supers, up around 1,100+ with 3 (dante’s follow-up builds the third bar for that last super too). It’s ridiculous.
Been reading the last few posts, too lazy to quote, a few things I noticed:
-X-23 isn’t difficult to learn, people who say that are ignorant. She’s just difficult to keep alive if you’re a fool. Lots of characters can get away with silly mistakes, or have decent options to cover their mistakes. Laura doesn’t have that as much.
-To the one who claims “Character Pride,” so people who want to ride the tiers will leave? Cool. She doesn’t become useless without the DHC, anyone who spends enough time with a team/character can make it work. It won’t be as easy as Wesker, but it’s worth the effort. I wouldn’t call that character pride, but more or less dedication.
-Covering decapitating slice: I use Dormammu’s dark hole generally (Sometimes Ammy depending on different angles and characters that bounce off Ammy assist weird, this is on the OTG with my second character after) and it works as a 2 way mixup: If I get the grab, free damage. If it misses or is blocked, I’m completely safe and I can setup something else… not to mention it works as a crossup that way, and with speed and timing you can combo off the unintentional crossup it creates. One of my favorite setups!
-I like the idea of a THC on reaction to Phoenix throwing out fireballs. I worry about my team setup doing enough damage to control the beast though. Rage trigger has a nasty habit of lifting people out of beam supers at times.
Anyone going to be at NCR? I will see you there if so!
Even if the DHC glitch is patched out, it wouldn’t really change much for my team. After watching so many videos of Combofiend making his team DHC into each other in any order, I set out to learn to do the same, and I can. All it means is that I would need 3 bars to kill a character instead of just 2, which isn’t that bad since combos from X-23, Taskmaster, or Akuma generate at least 1.5 bars.
On another note, what’s the highest damage anyone can get with their X-23 without assists or X-Factor? My highest damaging combo with her nets around 620k with 1 bar off a Talon Dive. I’m not very good at MFCing since I play on pad, so I’ve been wondering if higher damage outputs are possible with it.
Talon Attack L, M(1 hit) H>Mirage Feint H>J.M, J.M, J.H>D+H>Talon Attack L(land), M(1 hit) H>Mirage Feint H>J.M, J.M, J.H(land), J.M, J.M, J.H, J.S>Talon Attack L, H, S(super jump towards), J.M, J.M, J.H>D+H>Talon Attack L, land, OTG Ankle Slice>Rage Trigger. On certain characters like Sentinel, you can land Weapon X Prime on them for more damage.
Also if they ever take out the DHC glitch, x-23 will probably be focused on being a mid/late game comeback factor with dirt nap. She’s not too difficult to pick-up and play on a basic level, you can do perfectly fine with just basic ABCD, ABC, Talon Dive L into dhc glitch without getting into any of the more technical stuff. However you need to be careful with her, not just because of her low health but because a lot of her moves are more punishable than wolverine’s stuff or akuma’s. Learning the extremely fancy mirage loop combos isn’t that big a deal at the moment imo, just focus on your mix-ups, keeping yourself safe and utilizing your assists properly. Also learning how to get in with wave-dashing rather than talon dives is also a very good thing to learn.
Although if the DHC glitch does get patched out, X-23, Thor, Doom has some fairly damaging DHC options.
One thing though is I’m a bit interested in seeing how you guys use X-23. If any of you want to have a few matches online add me on PSN, Sesshomuronay. We should probably have a thread for this or something.
^
I’ve got matches in the video thread on the last page if you wanna see how I play. I live in England, but I don’t play this game online since I’m not fond of the netcode.
IMO, Mirage Loops are needed, not just for damage output, but for meter building and positioning. Her best loop puts the opponent, in the corner from anywhere on the screen. And if the DHC glitch goes away, meter building will be extremely important because like you said, I think Silent Kill will become X-23’s major source of damage output, and she builds a lot of meter from her loops. So I think all her tools should be mastered, from combos to mix-ups.
If the DHC glitch goes away, I’d still wanna put her up 1st because she has access to all her assists and with the right combos, she can get to Level 3 very quickly. But she wouldn’t be able to kill the opponent’s point character immediately then. You could do a Wolverine and burn X-Factor at the start though to kill someone off but her level 1 XF combos aren’t too hot. In the 2nd position, depending on how much the first character gained, she’d be able to manage it but if my point is dead, I don’t have access to all my assists, which I like for further extending Silent Kill combos. I don’t like her in 3rd. I’ll experiment with 1st and 2nd in the end.
