Today I’m going to try Storm [whirlwind] with my MorriDoom squad.
That’s like saying “when a character is really good you see all kinds of mid/high level players win with him/her”, and therefore Zero and C. Viper are not actually good characters.
If ammy didnt have good mixups, marlin pie wouldnt be able to open up anybody with her, no matter how good he is.
I would like to separate the two claims. first, there is quite a consensus that Zero and Viper are quite the technical characters, and you can’t really play them if you can’t pull shit off. I agree that the American community does not excel at using verity of characters outside the mainstream, nonetheless the technical ones. So for these two characters there is a barrier that if you do not pass it (and today only one player really pass it… maybe two if you count Mihe) you can’t really enjoy their strength. Ammy is not in that position, as her technical barrier is not that high (or high at all), and to bring her to the maximum you just need good game sense, aka being a good player.
Second, lets not forget we are talking anchor wise, which, with the XF help, is a bit more random then the natural game, and in the early days, all sort of players won with dark Wesker (or in vanilla…) until he was figured out, but still, dark Wesker is to be feared.
And just for a quick review, lets throw out some names for obvious XF3 characters:
Wesker, Phoneix, Strider, Vergil, and those are the really dumb XF characters
Are you really claiming that Ammy is on par with those characters? on the account of characters like Dormmamu, Dante, Doom, Maneto, Morrigan, or hell even Akuma, Hawkeye, Super Skrull or X23 (hell she got almost a guaranteed kill on the 2nd character after a kill).
I mean Ammy is decent, but calling her top 5 anchor just cause you beat your friends with her is just a wild exaggeration.
Lets agree to disagree there 
Outside of lightning loops, I wouldn’t say that Zero is more technical than Ammy.
I never said Ammy was a top 5 anchor. I do think she’s a solid XF3 comeback character, though. Is she as good as some of those guys in XF3? Clearly not. But then you’re moving in to discussions about the anchor position in general if you want to talk about character value, and not just XF3. Big difference.
I think zero\vergil are some of the most technical characters in the game.
They have to use these awkward ass tricks just for basic combos. Say you’re charging for boomerang with vergil and you hit them with s.m, s.h. Well if you’re charging with L, you can’t do srk+l for your basic bnb. You have to hold the last button you hit so you can transfer into the rest of your combo and not only do they have to do this for combos, but for footsie as well.
vergil uses this trick way more than zero does ATM but zero will use it more and more as the game progresses. zero’s damage output is so high he can shy away from the trick but vergil’s is rather low w\o meter so he needs this shit constantly.
I tried storm wind with storm, its meh…
is morrdoom with no 3rd but 3 bars better than morrdoom with a good 3rd character and no bar?
Vergil/Zero are really not that complex at all, considering that their combos are not as hard as you would think, and their neutral game is so simple and derpy. Morrigan’s neutral is far more complex than theirs. You also have to keep in mind that both Zero and Vergil build meter like crazy.
As for your question, IMO it would depend rather on who you use for anchor, but how you’re willing to spend your meter. Morridoom with no 3rd and 3 meter would be great if your opponent doesn’t know how to get through soul fist spam, but if they do Doom doesn’t get much out of meter asides from Doom Chair and a safe super to DHC into. I’d say an anchor without sufficient meter is a dead anchor, unless their name is Wesker. So out of the choices you gave I’d go with Morridoom with no 3rd and 3 bars.
hmm, I would like to keep this train of thought going
when I play as morrdoom variations and I start morrigan, its very hard to control the screen if your 1st bar didn’t play out properly. Some of these characters like zero have so much mobility and if the player knows whats up, chances are they won’t run into it so all you can do @ that point is bank on chip damage and off 1 bar, there isn’t enough chip to kill a character. Then, you’re stuck fighting a team as morrigan with no meter which isn’t exactly her strong point. Her neutral game is beyond retarded hard to utilize w\o getting hit. By far one of the most complex neutral games in the whole game
This is where 2-3 meters start to matter because even if the top tiers dodge the patterns, they very well could get chipped the fuck out so the simple act of blocking\dodging isn’t enough. They have to go for hits and this is where they can randomly run into a FB spam that combos. Having meter is the only way to prevent players from blocking\dodging the whole time because 2 bars can do an insane amount of chip.
fucked up part is that doom 3rd is meh @ best, he’s good but not great. You’re basically banking on morrigan the whole time keeping people out and is that enough? do characters still sneak in against properly played morrigan? is morrdoom with 3 bars competent enough to beat all the matchups in the game and they never get to doom?
morrdoom is getting into the optimization process ATM. we’re all looking for the best team along with the best strategy and as of now, I haven’t seen anyone try battery\morr\doom so I think I might try that out for a bit.
obscene point character in front of morridoom and retarded anchor behind morridoom are pretty much equal in my mind.
the retarded anchor version is much harder to play from the start of the game because you actually have to play part of the match without a mirror up and you have to actually understand how to play morrigan and deal with the neutral game with her, in which you need to be legit skilled to get by. So I would say its more difficult to play since you arent really getting the most out of the morridoom combo. but who cares, you got a strider with ouroboros in the back. but then again, if youre relying on that, then there isnt as much point to playing morridoom in the first place.
the obscene point character version is slightly easier to play as a whole, because when you have a zero or virgil or viper up front it can scare the opponent into using too much resources to kill them leaving morridoom to just eat them slowly. the only difficult part is figuring out when to drop the x factor. ideally youd want to catch them in a morrigan fire ball and drop xf2 to burn and chip out the characters remaining from the point characters rampage. but thats a difficult mental balance, because theres no clear cut ‘this is when you pop the cherry’ moment so if you are too apprehensive you might be stuck with a half dead doom with his XF getting easilly lamed out. but if your too anxious, you burn too early without getting a hit in or the proper chip set up and morrigan gets her XF gets lamed out.
I don’t think Morrigan is near optimized yet.
So many assists and character combinations. Should she be played as a pure zoning team with two assists that help her soulsoulsoul? Or should 1 of the characters on the team be able to rush and take the fight to the opponent if need be?
After watching fchamp at ect4 I put Dorm on my morrigan team. pillar assist kills other people’s missiles so they can’t fuck with her, since HM messes with her gameplan just as much as it messes with everyone else. It was fchamp’s dorm and doom that won him those matches imo. Dorm destroys assists and can play keep away/zoning game very well. Add that to moridoom and it’s pretty sweet since both mori and dorm benefit so much from HM.
I’m going with pure zoning team.
Other teams I was thinking about for the shell are Wolverine, Magneto, Spencer, as point characters and Strange, Hawkeye, Taskmaster, deadpool as 2nds. .
Dormammu’s Purification assist won’t ever get on the screen if your opponent is using a character like Hawkeye. Also, Dormammu and Morrigan share a lot of bad matchups.
I really like the idea of Taskmaster 2nd on a Morrigan Doom team. Hell he could even be 1st
I usually cover my assists by either shielding them with FBs or calling them behind my opponent. (picked this up from ChrisG’s matches, very smart)
Dorm kills assists and destroys another players missiles. This out weighs the cons of matchups because Hidden Missiles destroys Morrigan’s game as much as it helps her. Hidden Missiles is one of the MoriDoom shell teams weaknesses. If that isn’t around she has a much better and easier time controlling space and pinning people down. If it helps my morrigan soulsoulsoul, i’ll use it.
She definitely has a love/hate thing going on with doom.
I messed around last night with Deadpool as 2nd. His tilt up assist is really great for catching those Storms and Mags that just wanna fly away when you’ve got AV going.
The angle that he shoots the gun at is just so nice. It cuts the screen diagonally in half so you know where to dive and shell kick or throw soulsouls
I was referring to this :u:, Ammy is a decent character by all mean.
Actually I haven’t seen any real Viper outside of Marlin’s territory, so I even start doubt people claims about her top tierness. I mean, beside Seismo madness, she has no touch of death, and her normal ain’t that great. Marlin’s great reset game is mostly based on Ammy’s assist. I don’t intend to open it here, just saying I’m starting having my doubts.
Holding button in a combo ain’t that hard, the lighting loop is what important with him, as it makes almost any touch a ToD.
I don’t like the idea of anchoring the MorriDoom, since I feel that if you lost your first character first, the opponents doesn’t need to come to you, which highly reduce the effectiveness of the combo, as it main purpose is to lame it out. In this situation, you might need to play some rushdown with Morrigan, which, as KayEyeDee mentioned, require you to actually be able play Morrigan…
I don’t think you guys are realizing how deep that holding button thing goes with the charge characters The combos are easy but its the other uses of negative edging that complicate it. If zero charges light the entire time, you mess out on his L game which is god like. s.l\c.l are god like pokes for zero. If you want to charge with light but also use light as a poke, you have to flip your charge hand around mid game w\o swinging a poke. This is only done by dashing with m\h and then transferring your charge to the dash input buttons and immediately hitting light. If you wiff a normal to switch inputs, it can be very easy to wreck him afterwards. Now doing this specific trick mid game while being fast and accurate is very hard to do, it takes skill.
as of now, not that many try these input tricks especially for zero whom doesn’t really need it since his damage output is rather high but vergil on the other hand constantly needs to flip his inputs because of his lower damage output to start his combos. Eventually, zero will start to play like this as L is needed to attempt his fuzzy for fuzzy high and to air stall as well for multiple fuzzies.
morrigans rushdown is overrated. While the mixups are god like, her pokes against top tiers suck dog shit. vergil, zero, magneto and dormamu can all AA her on reaction and no jumping in poke will win. They all get bopped for free. I tried specifically looking for good jumpin pokes against AA’s and they don’t exist for morrigan. The only time you get safe rush down is behind assists, or behind SF pins which sucks because other characters have massive priority while going hi\low.
I don’t know, some compare Morrigan j.S to Doom’s foot dive (especially when you dash down)
Plus she can cover her approach with SF (j.SF L, fly dash down j.S)
not even on the same planet priority wise. I tested all her pokes and they’re all sub par IMO against top tiers.
none of her standing normals are worth a shit for AA, they fucking suck ass except for S which has an amazing hit box but its -12 on block. Its just asking to get chicken blocked and punished
her jumping pokes are all mediocre as well. j.l is amazing but the range on it is so short that it gets snuffed out by bigger pokes almost for free.
you always have to cover your approaches with morrigan because her priority against tops is pretty bad which means pins or soul fists first. However, this limits her mixup game to only mixing up behind pins and it severely limits her mixup potential big time. For her to get a mixup behind a SF, you have to wait 10 frames for the FB, like 14 frames on the flight mode, then w\e time it takes for the FB to get there. Its almost impossible to get mixups like that because it takes way too long to set them up safely.
^I agree. Morrigans normals arent bad at all but theyre nowhere near the leagues of Task/Magneto/Wesker etc. You also have to use them in very unconventional ways compared to more traditional characters. Definitely not ‘top tier’ normals like theyre made out to be.
Her best air normal imo is j.H. Air dash down forward j.h is such an amazing option select up there with Magneto. Only problem is it doesnt lead to anything compared to Mag’s. Calling Missiles before you do so, can sometimes let you get a decent combo off of OTG missiles after the throw animation though.
I think her best air normal is j.L
I read about it on here and I didn’t give it much of a chance but now I find myself always using the god damn thing because it wins a lot. You just have to be really deep but not so deep you can’t be thrown and the opponent hasn’t hit a button yet. Specific scenario but pretty good life. You get a pretty big combo into missiles, soul drain, AV. however j.L is incredibly tiny and it does get ranged out.
j.h and AD j.h are good but like you said, no big ass damage. Missiles can give you bigger life for sure if you can sneak them in there. Its hard to time perfectly every time so the scenario is meh @ times too. Not as flexible as I would prefer but @ least you get some life.
for some in close scenarios, morrigan j.s is faster than some characters everything. There is no button in their aresnal that can rival the speed. The problem is that her hit box size isn’t very big so characters make up for this by spacing her and reacting first. morrigan j.s works really well because of the speed. Some of these characters fastest poke is like 6f on jabs and her S is 5. However, the hit box is so scrimpy that range eats it up quite easily. Its good for when 2 people haven’t hit a button yet though especially if you know the characters normal speeds.
shoryuken is also pretty good. 3 frame startup and it trades with zero j.h and zero’s dive kick both of which seem to be high ass priority moves. It actually trades quite often too, its underused IMO. srk+h to beat rade hit boxes then you can activate flight mode, call assist, AD boogie or w\e else.