Something to add to Cable’s list of things to punish you with…
Some of you might know this, some might not…it’s just something that’s interesting to me.
Now the way I play Cable on point w/ Sentinel assist or any ground covering assist is basically a trap that evolves from move to move. I just think in my head what I wanna do next to make sure that my opponent can’t get out of it. So this is where I find something out that’s pretty interesting and gives Cable even more of an edge.
In my way of trapping, crackdowns are used in some instances. If I need to get close to my opponent, and want to keep moving with a pretty high priority move, HK crackdown is what I use. I knew this was rollable from the start, but I began to think. What if they don’t roll, what can I do then, because crackdown pushes them so far away, it’s almost a waste of a move, right? NOPE!!!
If the opponent doesn’t roll from the crackdown (I hardly ever see it, mainly due to the consequence I will post below this) then you can TK AHVB the shit out of their point character. It really puts them in a GREAT position for AHVB’ing them. The timing is tricky at first because you have to wait so long to cancel, unlike Cable’s other moves, but once you get the timing, it’s easy.
Now let’s say they do roll. Call out an AAA and try to cross them up w/ a wavedash c.lk, s.hk, TK AHVB. W/ the AAA and them rolling, this gives a good opportunity to punish your opponent.
Now I know Crackdown has mad lag, but that’s why you need the ground covering, or lockdown assist for you. (Sent and Doom work best for me, Storm after them). As for the anti-air? I suggest Psylocke, seriously. She’ll give you the opportunity much like Cyke or another of Cable’s favorite setup assists. Just jump back AHVB. Don’t TK it, they sit in the air long enough to not have to, plus they might fall in front of the beam and you cold miss them totally or they’ll get caught right at the start of it, limiting damage to be done.
I am going to attempt to work this into my arcade play in the near future and will post the results. I see a good possibility for this and it might make Cable even more dangerous than he already was.
Please don’t flame, I do know what I’m talking about, lol.
i wont claim im an expert on this, but i think i have an idea on how it works from shady and genghis. im pretty sure that this works only when 2 or more bars are used, ie, pushblock between the 1st and 2nd ahvbs, and then you are free to move afterward and ahvb back.
so yeah, still pretty useful, but i think you have to have something to pushblock otherwise it wont work, and you cant just pushblock with 1 ahvb. i could be wrong but im pretty sure it’s how it works, so play around with it and see if im right
an airborn cable can punish another cable’s ahvb without guardcanceling if the attacking cable is more than a couple inches off the ground (rare but I’ve seen it)… never heard of punishing low ahvbs without alpha countering, they’re the definition of fucking safety…
edit: regarding psylock’s aaa, it has shitty priority… it loses to any good assist and trades with good regular attacks… but she still knocks you to the floor when she trades…
the ahvb is an example of a move that has a lot of quick hits so you can’t pushblock during it… and even if you pushblock as it ends the enemy cable’s 2nd ahvb would negate your pushblock so you don’t even have the choice of eating it or calling in your assist to die… you’re right about shady discovering this though…
Okay, after extensive testing, here’s what I came up with in terms of what AAA’s beat out Cables and vice-versa. Properties…etc… I’ll get as much into detail to show you that Cable DOES have good priority and it beats out a lot of those AAA’s and serves a better purpose… Then after that I wanna get a little more indepth as to how I use Cable’s AAA now, since my last post about it my style has changed slightly and his assist serves a different purpose to me.
Cyclops- He wins, hands down, unless Cable is called out significantly afterwards. Cyke’s invincibility and sweeping motion simply own him, but don’t do much damage. I prefer Cable’s assist to this however because of the fact that Cable isn’t just dangling in front of the opposing point character. Also, if Cable connects, the scimitar will carry opponent up and offscreen, and assist further, allowing for a possible snapback with your point and assist death. Cyke does not allow as much time, especially on traded hits, as his assist doesn’t carry the opponents as far.
CapCom - Okay, CapCom’s assist is clearly better, but Cable outprioritizes it, it’s all positioning. If you’re in melee range, Cable is safe and will hit point, just outside of melee range, Cable takes capcom and point. Outside of that range, Cable trades hits, trades hit and hits point (1 hit), or loses to CapCom. In most cases Cable loses to Capcom which im not afraid to admit, because that assist owns.
One minor note on that tho. anywhere outside of melee distance, if cable is called slightly after CapCom, he wins 100% of the time.
Cammy - Same deal as Cyke, only I think Cammy has more of a Cable type range and uses her body instead of scimitar. The invincibility factor makes her win here.
Shotos - They win, same deal with invincibility. Only way Cable can win is if he’s called out slightly later than the assist and gets under them w/ his scimitar.
IM/WM - Cable owns these, hands down. Cable will get in and beat the hell out of both of them unless IM’s RB is aimed toward the ground the exact instant Cable lands to start.
Jin - Jin wins, hands down. Invicibility kills Cable.
Captain America - Trade hits or Cable wins if called out at the same time at any distance other than fullscreen. But who calls out an AAA at full screen anyway? Also, Cable’s assist carries assists off screen further if it connects fully. If it trades hits then it simply carries them to the top of the screen, still good time tho.
SonSon - Fuck her priority, Cable owns this shit hands down unless he’s on his way down and she’s called out. I was curious as to how it was going to react, but laughed when Cable was owning her and hre “priority”.
Here’s some extra ones I did myself:
Tron proj - As long as you’re blocking, Cable will hit her. If you get hit, then Cable will just jmp in, taunt, and get buried. If you’re blocking the rings, Cable outprioritizes that 100%.
Doom - Trades hits or Cable wins as long as the rocks aren’t leaving his body. It would be stupid to call an assist out of doom’s rocks are on screen tho. Shame on you.
Hulk/Colossus - Trades hits mostly. Hulk will win sometimes vs. Cable and Cable will win sometimes vs. Colossus. It’s all basically timing and positioning.
Guile/Charlie - They win, the flash from the flash kick kills Cable. oh well. You shouldn’t have to rely on Cable’s aaa if you’re playign vs. someone who uses Guile. :lol:
Sakura Dash - Peope are talking about how it eats up Beams and projectiles. Cable trades hits with it, leaving her open for mad punishment.
Okay, now that that’s done. I want to discuss the usage of Cable’s AAA in my team and how he is a WORKING character. He has his uses and only at certain times, not a general good assist like Capcom, Cammy, or Cyke (top 3 in game bar none)
My team is Storm A / Sent Y / Cable B
Cables Purpose - Combo into Hailstorm, Help Sent in Fly mode (more on this later), CAHVB, Punish assists into Hail, etc…
The main thing w/ Cable is that he IS on screen a while with limited invincibility, but with Storm and Sent on point, they are more than enough to cover for him on his way out. So it’s basically, rushdown, call Cable, if it hits, hailstorm with storm OR if you’re using Sent on the ground, launch them out of it or HP RPxxHSF. If Sent is flying, follow the hit character to the top of the screen, HP throw lk, lk, dp RP. If Cable is blocked, resume rushdown after his blockstun is gone (while blocking ithink it does 3 hits on the ground, plenty for either of them to recover and resume rushdown).
Cable AAA also owns flying Sents. If Storm is on point vs. flying Sent: Call assist, immediately hailstorm. Cable will trade hits w/ Sent if he does the wok or stomps and protects storm while hail loads up. Sent can’t recover in time to block it. You’re saying something tho… what if Sent flies over it? He can stomp Storm, Right? WRONG!!! Cable’s AAA is one of the few with this odd property, if even anyone elses does this. Lets say you call Cable out and get crossed up, the oppoent is on the other side. Most assist (cyke, cammy, ken, etc…) will continue on their path. Not Cable. He will turn around and face your oppoent and let the scimitar go, reversing the crossup. His “lag” (it’s not lag, he just doesn’t do the assist as SOON as he’s on screen, he lands first, and while he’s waiting to land he’s invincible, can’t be hit while jumping in. Cable’s AAA own’s flying Sents. And if you’re using Sent w/ Cable’s AAA? Just fly w/ the other Sent and call him out. The one time I advise against this is if the opponent is using one of the top 3 assists. You comonly see these with Sentinel, especially Capcom and Cammy. Cable WILL lose to these in an air battle, in which case I suggest you keep storm on point and use the previous strategy.
Other points about Cable’s assist
-Trades hits with pretty much every other assist in the game or beats it out (as long as it doesn’t have invincibility)
-When Cable trades hits, the scimitar takes the assist off screen (off regular screen, not the whole thing) and Cable simple bounces back and jumps off, no worries. Sure his assist doesn’t do major damage in trading hits, but it gives snapback opportunities with Storm on point.
-If Cable hits the assist char. it takes them off screen for about…2-4 seconds depending on the characters weight.
-Lets say you both call out AAA’s and Cable’s hits their point char and assist and Storm is hit as well and their point character dies due to the assist. Storm has a year and forever to recover before the assist lands, plenty of time to get in position to launch to death.
-The whole reverse cross-up factor about his assist simply owns characters who try to superjump over it. Versus a quick character you can expect them to dash down and resume attacking, the scimitar will hit them and take them off screen. Giving you time to set up and attack on the character coming down.
-Cross-up factor can also own rushdown. Tri-jumping over the head of Storm will result in eating a scimitar.
-If it hits, all 8-9 hits of it will connect. Unlike Cyclops who will more than likely hit you once if it connects anywhere outside of standing position.
-Cable’s scimitar will go through photons and take out Dooms. See him super jumping? Call Cable out, Hailstorm. At the very least you’ll get chip damage if he blocks, and cable stays safe.
-CAHVB: Nothing can compare to this. Mostly results in a dead point or assist character, or in the best case, both.
-Versus MOB,SOB,PC and other Beam supers: Anywhere from halfscreen distance in, Cable will take them out of their super, but so will many other assist, this is just something he can do as well.
Okay, I have more stuff, but I can’t quite think of it all right now. My point mainly is that his assist is specific. Use it in certain situations to own with it. This is not an assist to spam or call out at any ole’ time. Be good with it, Cable is precious, make sure you can protect him. He definately has his uses and in this team, I definately rank him amongst the top 10 AAAs in the game (not bad considering his lack of invincibility. He sets up for damage mostly, and gives time to recover, breath, or snapback to kill the assist. In the corner, a sent in unfly with Cable’s aaa can keep the opponent pinned for a while. Fly, lk, hk + assist, wait, lk, hk, unfly, lk, hk, land, s.lk, s.lp, lp rp, HSF. Sure pushblock owns it, but with Sent on point w/ unfly you don’t really need to worry about pushblocking. Elaborate on this as it is a very shitty example.
Anyway, I’m done. I’m sure ill be back tomorrow with more stuff, or maybe in like 10 minutes. I dunno…
Good post full of good info… I dont remember if you mentioned this in your post, but if it does connect, the opponent doesnt have time to punish, because by the time they get back to the ground cable is out like a fat hoe in dodgeball.
Ah yes, I forgot a few things. Told you I’d be back !
With Sent on point:
Cable can do fast fly combos with Sent but it’s not really worth it. Unless you wanna get fancy I suggest NOT doing any, and just rely on it’s usage to setup HSF.
Wait, Sent has an unblockable c.hp now…right? So let’s see…scimitar hits point character and we have an instant HSF!!! Sure it’s hard to time, but still possible, and with the assist falling slightly behind the point char (if it hits them) then tehy’ll fall into the HSF and eat the rest of them too. Wonderful wonderful things…
Edit:
OH yea, it OTG’s too. I said this on my first rant a few pages back, but I want it to be up here. This is useful for setting up an extended combo against an unrolled opponent (storm’s c.hk works good, the scimitar pushes them slightly out of range of s.hk). Then follow up with a LA xx LS.
I think tomorrow I’ll post my new trap info w/ Cable. It’s pretty good and even locks down Mags and Storms o.O ??:eek:
Re-Edit:
Not to mention his AAA makes for the easiest guardbreak (other than his own) in the game anywhere on screen, even better in the corner. It doesn’t push them away, hits multiple times, making pusblocking pretty obsolete vs. this. And even if they do manage to pushblock, Storm or Sent are surely quick enough to dash back in and punish as their s.hk launchers have ridiculous range/priority over jumping normals.
Oh yea, it also sets up IM and Mags infinites very well. That multi-hitting on the ground thing really works well, eh? With mags you need to manual sj.hk into it to start it though. But it still sets up nice. Kinda makes Psylocke obsolete, eh?
this has nothing to do with who discovered it. i have talked to genghis about this, and i KNOW that pushblocking can allow you to move after 2 ahvbs where you wouldnt normally be able to.
Ok, I want to try to set the record straight. Cable’s AAA is horrible. No disrespect to anybody, but let’s get honest now.
It’s only invincibility is right when it comes out. After that, you’re ass out. If there’s any sort of projectile on the screen (Sent drones, tron rings, etc.) or a AAA with more invincibility, you’re ass out. If the distance isn’t point blank, you’re ass out (think IM assist as Cable comes down). All of those assists Wildcat listed that Cable can beat are very specific. Must be right up next to you. In all reality, if your opponent is that close to you, then they must be playing Storm or Magneto, which very easily avoid AAAs, especially Cable’s.
So you see, there really is not point to try to debate that Cable’s AAA is useful, cuz it really isn’t. In general, there are only three AAA (aside from ones like Doom’s and BH which aren’t used as AAA) that are playable and they are Cyclops, Cammy, and Captain Commando. You could count Psylocke as the fourth if you want to, but I only see her used in MSP, which doesn’t need her IMO.
Actually Fluffy… you don’t HAVE to be upclose for a lot of it. And the reason I stated all of that is because I play a team where you are constantly up close to your opponent, and if you didn’t read the whole post, I said I was describing specific strats for MY team, and how Cables AA is a working assist.
And to counter your points:
Cables assist flat out owns Tron. It can be halfway thru, starting, or ending. Cable’s AA owns it because of the scimitar. Only time he gets hit is if the point char gets hit and he doesn’t do his move.
IM: I also said that he complete outprioritizes this assist unless he lands right on top of the RP going downforward as SOON as he jumps in, which is very ray seeing sa how that’s right at the beginning of the attack.
Sent: If in range, Cable will either trade hits w/ the drones and hit sent + point or will get under drones and take them both up to the top of the screen…
Also, here’s some more points i figured out in the meantime.
-Cable’s AA will trade with Hail if you’re 1/3 screen distance or in.
-Cable’s AA will go right through Magneto’s shockwave and take him out.
-Cable’s AA goes through demons cleanly…
Once again though, I am stating this for use with my team, Storm/Sent/Cable. A team where you are constantly on your opponents ass, so you dont need them to be rushing you down to trade assists or whatever the fuck. The only assist which cleanly beat cable are Cammy,Cyke,Jin,Shotos and Guile/Charlie
Addendum:
Other things Cable’s assist will deal damage to:
-Juggs dash assist will either trade with Cable or get eaten alive, mwahahaha!
-Cable can jump through Storm’s Whirlwind and take her out
Tada, even more stuff that Cable outprioritizes. I gotta go to work and don’t get out for 8 hours so I can’t do much in the name of MvC2 until then, so just toy around with this stuff. I wanna see what other supers it gets through too. Oughta be pretty interesting…
Oh Yea- As a final note to THIS post. Cable’s hit range for his AAA is approximately 1/2-1/3 screen distance away. It varies based on the attack he’s going against, but for the most part all of everything I posted works best right inbetween those two or closer. Enjoy.
And I use Iron Man/Storm/Cable and Cable is my only AAA, so I too know how and when to use it.
Actually, if Tron has already thrown a ring, then he gets hit unless his point blocked the ring. IMO it is not worth calling Cable AAA into Tron, especially when the margin of error and the damage that can be done with Tron are so high. Risk-reward factor is way off balance in that exchange.
Again, if the distance is off even slightly, Cable gets hit. Or at least he can be punished.
Again, I addressed this in my last post. There are really only two characters that will be that close and they definitely won’t need Cable AAA to do anything. Also, no one will call Sentinel when you’re at point blank range. That would just be stupid. The whole point of Sent drones is to cover you high, not cover up close.
Hail: Storm should not be doing Hail when you’re 1/3 of the screen away. Storm should not be doing Hail period if you’re playing a rushdown team. Again, that’s just unwise.
Shockwave: Again, no one is going to just do random Shockwaves. Just not smart.
Demons: Yeah, Cable AAA goes through demons, but doesn’t everything? And (looking towards Dasrik) nobody uses Blackheart anymore anyway…
Two more reasons why Cable’s AAA sucks. You’ll never see these two things happen in a serious match.
Bottom line, I don’t dispute that what you said is true. Cable’s AAA may indeed (I don’t care to try it all) beat all the stuff you said. My point, however, is that all of that stuff is useless unless it helps to beat Storm, Magneto, Cable, or Sentinel. And indeed none of what you listed can be useful against those four characters. Cable’s AAA isn’t bad because it has no priority and it sucks, it’s bad because all of the situations that it’s useful either don’t happen in a real match or aren’t useful against the big four.
hey i use to get rid of tri jumpers: call him when they jump or if you aticipate it. be careful with it though… hes not cammy or psy but does the job. thats about the only time i use it because it is in fact cable and i know if my oponent used their cable assist and he failed then i would do everything in my power to do as much damage to him as possible.
ok then, why does the 2nd ahvb negate your pushblock? if you wait until the 1st ahvb is over, but you are still in blockstun, and then pushblock, then the 2nd ahvb hits (you are still pushblocking), why arent you free to move afterward? what’s different between this and pushblocks a lp optic blast before a MOB?
you can’t pushblock during or wake up from an existing pushblock during certain multi hitting supers like proton cannon, mob, ahvb…
the mob is shorter than the stun from the pushblock, so when you wake up the super already ended… and the initial pushblock can only be from a canceled attack like his optic blast or spinkick…
so if you’re blocking an ahvb and the beam is waved away from you, you have a chance to pushblock, but when the beam is waved back down it could cover the rest of the pushblock’s stun…
calling it impractical is an understatement… the opponent would have to purposely fuck up with master timing…
Alright. This is the last tiem i’m going to defend against those couple of characters and how Cable beats them effectively with this team. Mainly Storm on point, although Sentinel CAN and will be able to get close enoug in the rushdown I am about to describe.
IM Assist: I’ve tested this, EXTENSIVELY. Cable has about 1-2 frames in which he is overpowered. Leaving about 100 for him to take out IM during his animation. I’d say this is in favor of cable. (Not sure if the game runs at 30 or 60 FPS, any information would be helpful on this)
Sentinel Assist: EVER HEARD OF WAVE DASHING?!?!?! Let’s see, Sent comes out, wave dash in + cable, block. Storm’s wave dash (simply done: f, f, PP) will get her in position to take out Sentinel’s assist. Sent can do this as well but has a harder time due to his not being quite as quick.
Versus Hailstorm and Typhoon: Same thing, wave dash. You see Storm going for hail? Wave dash + Cable, block. She’s gone. As far as typhoon goes, you’ve never seen a Storm typhoon xx hailstorm to get safe chip or safe DHC tagout??? Bury that shit alive.
Tron Assist: WRONG. Cable owns that, and OF COURSE THE POINT CHARACTER IS GOING TO BLOCK IT. Who the fuck just sits there and eats the most damaging assist in the game? Not a single person to my knowledge.
Shockwave: Yea, noone tosses out random shockwaves. But i’m just saying, it goes through it. A friend of mine asked if it did, so I tested it for him. And it did. Just a bit of information if you see a mis-move, messed up infinite ending in s.hk xx shockwave, or other such incident. No need to eat some chip damage, punish mags and go from there. If you have Storm on point, Hail. If you have Sent on point, HSF or unblockable, you’re good to go. Also, same thing as in with Hailstorm and Typhoon. Shockwave is a lot quicker than Tempest since ground or air tempest is VERY dangerous to use as a DHC tagout vs. either Sent OR Storm. I told you, I’m talking about this specific team here, not just random supers. These strategies also apply to other Cable-specific AA teams.
One final random note: Cable trades with basically every j.fp or j.hk in the game. I haven’t tested it with every move, so don’t hold me to my word. Tri-jumpers eat this assist alive, and wait to be punished by Hailstorm or a Sent c.fp.
I want to try this with command moves like Hayato’s d+j.hp move, Doom’s kicks, dive kick style moves, etc… I worked 11-8 today so I didn’t have much time and will probably test some more in a little bit.
Also, expect tomorrow probably (maybe overnight) my strategies concerning cable rushdown and trapping possibilities. I don’t want to make this post too long.
And once again Fluffy. I’m not discussing these characters (IM/Tron/Sent/Etc…) already described in this specific post. I have made my point and have tested this significantly. Cable beats these assists out, no question.
Okay, you are TOTALLY misconstruing what i’m trying to prove here. Lots of people say it’s completely useless, I’m just saying it’s not. I’m not saying this is the best assist in the game, cuz it’s not. I’m not saying replace Cyke with Cable on your team beacuse his assist is better, cuz it’s not. I’m saying that his assist isn’t the shit people said it once was. I’m bringing out information previously unknown and untested because people thought it got beat out by a bunch of shit. But it doesn’t. I’m just saying Cable’s more than a one trick pony, just a lot of people don’t use him that way.
