Charlie has the kick throw, on the corner you land a kick throw then you do a launch, j. lk, j. mp, j. mk, j. hp, j.hk, then j. hk on the way down, (land) standing lk, standing mk, standing hk
You have the added option of another kick throw attempt into another combo during this. Also charlie’s kick throw allows you to get a free launch so you can use assist comboes pretty much 100% of the time you land a kick throw anywhere on the screen. Unlike other throw comboes you don’t have to call the assist then go for a throw attempt you can dash in, c. lk, launch and call a assist when the combo is already pretty much guarenteed. Yes it can be teched out of but if you land just one it does almost as much as one of guile’s total wipe out comboes outside the corner and that’s not counting assists (launch+ call commando, lp (commando hits) lk to stop them from flying away, then continue combo ect.
I just see charlie as having more options. Sure they can watch out for the kick throw but let me present this example:
you get a assist like sent g to help tick into a throw, they hold up+back because they don’t want to give you a chance to throw them. If they hold up+back though you can hit them low and land a combo. If they don’t hold up+back they won’t automatically jump out of everything and charlie has the added advantage of sonic boom and crescent kick rush to try to keep them in block stun so that ends up helping him regardless. There are ways around this but still guile can’t be that threatening with his throw, he’d have to land three just so it would be as much as one of his regular air combos. Guile does decent damage on his air comboes (anything ending in a flash kick, total wipe out, or hp, hk)
But his total wipe out is too strict for me at least. I still miss it time to time in normal air comboes and you probably can’t use it in air to air confrontations(but you can at least use the flash kick and such and j. lp, j. mp flash kick) Is it positioning? timing or both?
Anyways just tell me how you play guile, I don’t see where he lands any damage from or does chip.
i find psylocke kinda owns commando. shes just a lot faster, her fireballs come out a lot faster and recover better, and shes got a triple jump.
they both have really great standing fierce though that are great for pressure. dash in, fierce, cancel into something, like a psi blast or a ninja, repeat over and over.
yeah people run into the standing fierce all the time.
TS: omg you totally r0x0rs with your cool guile combo
btw, does comboing into the air super actually do more damage than a regular air combo ending with flash kick? it doesn’t seem so, because i’ve never seen any guile players do it.
Does 64 or so damage (not nearly enough IMO for how hard it is to land) it gets severely scaled on damage because it does 49 damage if you land it by itself. Flash kick air comboes do about 50 damage as do comboes ending with hp, hk but the hp, hk combo has the added bonus of flying screen and I think it does 52 damage.
The super is pretty tricky, I haven’t figured out how to connect it reliably, most people just do it as fast as possible but not below them i think.
fishjie… what is your obsession with guile? … i ran across your pic on here thinking you’d be an american with combed back blonde hair and a lame tattoo, but instead you are fob-tastic? … not meant as an insult; just very confused.
I <3 this thread. So many people whore on top tiers…and most of em aren’t even skilled enough to properly use em in a way that makes them top tier lol.
More people need to just use who they want to use. Sure it takes work to get good when no one is feeding you strategies…but the payoff is much better.
[quote=Cisco]
That’s a great argument, but i still don’t see it as a valid reason (or strong reason so to say) why OR > SS. All you gave was details on how good you use OR, but generally i say, SS > OR. SS has power ups that enable him to do different things, sure they have cons but in a way, it still serves a purpose. But i wouldn’t go too much into that, since i think SS’s ability to give off open/block damage is enough to support my argument. SS is easy to use, unlike Omega red, there is no head ache’s or screw ups.
Again, He does heavy chip damage -his ninja star super dishes out mad block damage and possibly it holds the best chip damage in the game. His supers are connectable after the hit of an assist, and yes it is far more useful than any of OR’s supers.
With that said super, he rapes assists for free since it is nearly unpunishable, unlike OR’s destroyer in w/c you could punish by rolling after taking the hit of the last coil. Not to mention that SS is a much better character to DHC into (obviously) since OR’s supers are not worth the burn. This alone should say allot why SS > OR.
And please, don’t give me that “he needs meter” crap. Cable is one of those characters that relies heavily on meter, yet that doesn’t exclude him from being considered a God tier now does it? It’s just like an argument between Cykes and Cable: Cykes has all these wonderful tools, but he doesn’t have that one thing to put him over cable. Take this as a relation to the SS and OR argument.[/QUOTE
why would omega screw up or give someone headaches? true,he takes time to master, but once you do you’ll find out how good of a character he really is. the fact that he can get his vitality back is just awsome! obviously you have not gave omega the time to see his true potential. if you know what you’re doing omega can do some damage.
also, like you stated, ss relies on meter just like cable to be effective. so why is cable a god and not ss then? the fact that cable can connect repeated hvb’s,i believe, is the sole reason he is a god. sam cannot do that. at least i don’t think. so by you relating you’re sam to cable and my omega to cyclops is just plain wrong. cyclops has tools but he cannot penetrate a good defense unlike omega. if you consider your sam cable then my omega would definately be magneto. i would be on you like flies on shit.lol. it’s just what i think lates.
[quote=Cisco]
That’s a great argument, but i still don’t see it as a valid reason (or strong reason so to say) why OR > SS. All you gave was details on how good you use OR, but generally i say, SS > OR. SS has power ups that enable him to do different things, sure they have cons but in a way, it still serves a purpose. But i wouldn’t go too much into that, since i think SS’s ability to give off open/block damage is enough to support my argument. SS is easy to use, unlike Omega red, there is no head ache’s or screw ups.
Again, He does heavy chip damage -his ninja star super dishes out mad block damage and possibly it holds the best chip damage in the game. His supers are connectable after the hit of an assist, and yes it is far more useful than any of OR’s supers.
With that said super, he rapes assists for free since it is nearly unpunishable, unlike OR’s destroyer in w/c you could punish by rolling after taking the hit of the last coil. Not to mention that SS is a much better character to DHC into (obviously) since OR’s supers are not worth the burn. This alone should say allot why SS > OR.
And please, don’t give me that “he needs meter” crap. Cable is one of those characters that relies heavily on meter, yet that doesn’t exclude him from being considered a God tier now does it? It’s just like an argument between Cykes and Cable: Cykes has all these wonderful tools, but he doesn’t have that one thing to put him over cable. Take this as a relation to the SS and OR argument.
[/QUOTE
why would omega screw up or give someone headaches? true,he takes time to master, but once you do you’ll find out how good of a character he really is. the fact that he can get his vitality back is just awsome! obviously you have not gave omega the time to see his true potential. if you know what you’re doing omega can do some damage.
also, like you stated, ss relies on meter just like cable to be effective. so why is cable a god and not ss then? the fact that cable can connect repeated hvb’s,i believe, is the sole reason he is a god. sam cannot do that. at least i don’t think. so by you relating you’re sam to cable and my omega to cyclops is just plain wrong. cyclops has tools but he cannot penetrate a good defense unlike omega. if you consider your sam cable then my omega would definately be magneto. i would be on you like flies on shit.lol. it’s just what i think lates.[/quote]
OR doesn’t use his omega destroyer other than to probably dhc out, he just doesn’t use his meter and does fine without it.
Silver Samurai may be worthy of the next tier though. You still need certain positioning on the raimeken or else they can push block and let the assist escape iirc. He’s pretty good, and whenever you use a star you can do kara standing hk xxx ninja star and it’ll give you 2 fierces worth of meter.
He is pretty good I’ll write up some more stuff later
man Silver Samurai is nowhere near as good as Omega Red D=
very short summary - Generally, a character’s potential is based on mobility and/or ability to restrict mobility. SS has some of the worst mobility in the game (the crappiest superjump IIRC), can’t do anything outside of point blank range, and is as fat as Doom. Omega can get around way better and is a threat at varying distances.
Yes, in general MCV2 is about space control, either controlling space or moving through space. Notice how all the chars with controllable air-dashes are good?
Cable without meter is good because he restricts space as well as anyone in the game with jumping fierce, air viper beams, grenades, the occasional uppercut, etc.
Samurai can’t restrict space worth crap. (Throwing star is useless for that) Nor does he have any mobility. Samurai is one of those guys that has a lot of trouble with retarded crap like Doom on point using ground pink-shit.
Remember in the first couple months of MvC2 where people would do stuff like call BH, do air pink-shit, etc? Well, that stuff still basically works on Samurai.
As far as moving around goes, he’s right up there with Zangief and Colossus. Actually worse. (Colossus has his special dash, Zangief can do his air grab) In fact he might be the clunkiest character in the game.
Can’t really argue with either of the above 2 posts (picture me arguing Clock about OR anyway… ). It’s the truth if you think about it.
Low tier often has other nifty tricks (great chip, above-average DHC, what have you) - but generally it’s not enough to overcome. Either that or it requires so much patience, execution, ability to land &/or blind luck that it’s just too much. Doesn’t really matter which; same outcome.
If you gotta pull your best $hit in the world out of your a$$ (that might costs 2 or 3 meters) to beat Cable/Sent-y, it’s gonna be a problem. Only near-fanatic dedication will bring you success. And that’s low tier in a nutshell. On a tourney level, it’s beyond just “challenging”.
I believe MM has to be one of the top tiered characters in this low tier discussion. His jumping HP stops so much rushdown its stupid. good MM>top tier rushdown. a turtling MM on point with rockball and cammando assist fills ups the screen with so much nonsense that you are basically shielded from rushdown. and if they are running away, cammandos assist reaches the top and so does rockball, and they may not which side that comes from either. also, rockball continues to fly its path and can hit the oppenent while they are juggling you. You can cancel his slide into rockball anytime as well.
the thing is with MM, is you have to turtle. At least this is my style of playing him. I try to stay as far away from whoever I am playing the majority of the time. do slide (df + HK) cancel into rockball for protection and to get closer to them. I never use the charged buster. IMO it is worthless. You can rely on jumping HPs because of the damage, and the rockball and AA assist is a good wall for him. I don?t even use the grounded buster (or standing/crouching HP) because its slower than jumping. The only time I would use it is again sent when he is abusing the drones and RP. The regular jumping (not SJ) HPs will stuff many assists and even some supers (storms comes to mind).
Anyways I use MM (AA)/Sent (G)/Capcom(AA). With Capcom on point I can do C.LK, Call MM AA S.HK, it hits Captain Corridor xx Captain Sword. I don’t find Megaman’s projectile assist all that useful because it’s so linear and predictable and offer minor setups.
Here’s one of the most important thing with Megaman!!! If you do J.FP low enough you can still shoot the buster and dodge an incoming AHVB!!!:bgrin: (Great for wasting an opponent’s meter!) Which is why I have little qualms fighting Cable. Often Cables will get impatient and do a J.RK and then… Hyper Megaman!!!:badboy:
I’m talking about error ratio, it’s just more common to make a mistake with OR than with SS. And really, no matter how great you are with Omega red it’s just not as easy to give great damage compared to samurai. It’s just that easy to perform such a deadly tactic, considering that it combo’s off two hits or off an AAA.
You misunderstood my post. This is what i meant, SS, JUST LIKE CABLE, is only deadly with meter. Right. So that’s probably the reason why you see OR > SS, because OR doesn’t rely on that one “thing”. Cyclops is supposed to be a comparison to OR, that no matter what options (mobility in the mention) and said tools he’s just not good enough to get that much cred as cable, because the damage, and the rest cable offers is far more reliable (too most atleast) than any tool cyclops has possible. Sure, cyclops has all around weapons to win himself in the match; mobility, meter building, chip, etc etc… regardless, he just can’t do what cable does, and cable lacks mobility. The only major thing he has is the AHVB because it’s a supreme killer, that one “asset” already makes cable over Cyclops, strider, Ironman, and Spiral. And also the simplicity of Cable poses as a factor to his reliablity, it’s more common to make a mistake with Cyclops than with Cable.
Now, aply this logic with the low tiers -OR and SS. It’s just how i see it. No matter what OR has, it’s just not as reliable as that one “asset” SS has.
I think this very OR vs. SS debate highlights why it’s kinda hard to do head-to-head comparisons (unless it’s fairly commonly seen, like Cable vs. Sent).
Different characters bring different things to the table - and may have the luxury of a top player demonstrating ideal play while the other one on deck… not so much.
For the record, I love Raimen Ken and prefer SS very much over OR. But that doesn’t mean $hit. Real world results do. I still agree about the mobility aspects that have been brought up, but as you can see by a lot of the breakdowns there’s always more to it than just that. And it doesn’t always involve meter.
maybe for a noob the error margin will be greater with omega than sam. only because sam can link a super after two hits does not mean omega is any less inferior to his damage level. its like a glitched jugg. he has all that power but requires mobility. he can link his headcrush off a lk. but what makes you think he will even get close. i’m not saying he won’t, but lets face it, he’s slow much like sam. so if a super is all sam relies on, there’s no way in hell he’ll cut it with a decent omega player.
again, there’s no way you’re sam is cable or my omega cyclops. first, cable can control space; bullets flying evwrywhere vb’s and grenades. he also has MOBILITY.sam does not. that’s what marvel revovles around. like i told you my omega would be somewhat like a magneto. once i get through you’re defense,trust, he will do some damage.
i guess what you’re trying to say is sam is easy to get good with and omega requires more skill. it’s like a magneto vs cable. who do you think has the advantage? many will say magnus because of his advantage in mobility.and i think he’s harder to get good with than a cable. the error margin is greater with magneto and that does’nt stop him from raping a cable. he would not even need a super to own him.
anyway, u have good arguments and i have my opinion. maybe someday i’ll change you’re opinion, and others, after a match with my omega. i’m just illiterate when it comes to computers. so i would’nt know the fist thing to putting a video in here. i’ll try to see if i can get some footage and maybe someone will help me through the process or something. if not fuk it. lates
Dude, error ratio = the possibility of making a mistake. Meaning, a high chance of him messing up on performing a damaging combo, like those cool coil chains. It’s looks easy, and probably easy for you since you’ve probably been playing OR for a long time, but reality there is still a chance of you messing up. Anything could happen. Unlike samurai who can give such damage so easliy - mad chip damage, and mad open damage with super. Simplicity is a great thing for a character’s potential.
Dude, you still misunderstood my point. I’m not saying that SS = Cable literately, it’s just a figure or an example that no matter if OR is more mobile and has all this “versatile” crap, that doesn’t make him anywhere better or reliable in comparison. I’ll try to explain better with the Cyke/Cable analogy. Cyke has everything, right. He can chip, he holds high priority; he can build meter; he gives excellent damage in the level 2 settings; he can handle himself with out the use of assists; a great assist to Alpha into… etc etc. Now cable, has no mobility and just like samurai, he suffers from getting crossed up and stuff like that. Basically, his normal tools (w/c are great) are not that impressive when it comes to top tier competition. **Compared to the top tier, he lacks at allot of things. He has no godly rushdowns like Mags, Storm or Sent; no great DHC’s like Ironman and Storm; he can’t get around like Strider/doom and Spiral; No angle control like Doom; and he doesn’t have the versatile ness of cyclops (w/c i’ve tried to explain) … yet, he is still placed far above Cykes, IM, Strider, Doom, Spiral and BH (if you still consider BH a top) because of one thing. The AHVB, w/c is the biggest comeback tool known in the game. No one cares about Cable being dependant of the meter because the AHVB speaks and redeems the character from all the cons.
It’s the same why i see SS at the top of that list - above OR- because, regardless of all these things OR has: mobility, meter building, reach with coils, it’s just nothing compared to that one super from Samurai.
You have great arguments too man, and you don’t need to show me any vids because it doesn’t matter if you are that good of an OR player to me. You probably are a good Omega red. I’m just arguing what i have experienced. I myself don’t use both SS and OR, i’m a strider player. But i have faced many great SS and OR players and from what i can tell, SS is allot more difficult considering the fact that you have to worry about where you place/time your assist and sometimes trying to save (Cable is exempted of course) your assist could end up in you joining your assist at getting shocked. He is that much of an intimidating character. The damage is crazy alone, if the opponent’s assist doesn’t die from getting hit then it’s most likely that the assists is that close to death, w/c makes the opponent think twice on calling it. So ya, the opponent is now handicapped on using one -or no assist- while you have the upper edge with two/one available/healthy assists. It’s not a complicated thing to do if we are talking about matches below top tier standards; a good cover assist like Juggs, Iceman, or some one should give SS allot of opportunities to unleash that power.
Cable has AHVB yea he wouldnt’ be as good without it but his top tier status is not due to his ahvb alone (mostly due to his ahvb but there are other factors that contribute to this). His other abilities help make him as good as he is. Grenades, zoning ability (his hp’s have alot to do with this), assist coverage. He has a pretty good dash and it isn’t like he is out run for free unlike many other lower tier characters are (juggernaut for one). If he couldn’t zone you at all his ahvb would constantly be a non factor to people like magneto because they’d just get in your face and you’d be killed before you could even land a single AHVB and even if you blocked that mix up, without his other attributes his AHVB would be less effective, don’t believe me? Just think of how cable would be without nades and his j. hp.
The whole cyke comparison is kind of faulty because for one silver samurai cannot kill you with a single raimeken combo (not counting DHCs and even then you’d probably be referring to silver samurai as the DHC ender not the one on point) but also the whole cyclops thing is just different. Cyclops has alot of great attributes but he dies to cable usually because almost everything he does is not safe against him which is not the case with OR vs. Silver Samurai. IMO OR is pretty good and Silver Samurai is pretty good too. I simply wouldn’t say Silver Samurai > OR. I play both of them really although I admit I probably play OR more.
, that’s crazy… it’s just a preferred character, not a representation of him & everything he stands for…