…and so I finally get around to you, Mr. Patch. Can’t get enough Wolverine, huh? Well, I’ll try to answer each of your questions the best I can… and hopefully, there won’t be any more of them once I’m through! :rolleyes: …
Oh… and from now on, please try to understand that I answer posts in the order I’ve received them and that I get to everyone eventually… no use posting a million times when you can ask a million questions in one post.
Anyways, on with the show…
Practice makes practical… so I’m sure that if you practice mashing air throws that way, you’ll get that end result. If you’re asking me whether I’d do it or not, then the answer is no… I just don’t go for air throw combos that much anymore! Anyways, good luck with that!
Wolverine B/Iron Man B/Doctor Doom B sounds like a fun team. Too bad I can’t use Iron Man!
Okay… so you use Iron Man B defensively to set up air combos… nice. Have you ever considered using his A type to keep people on the ground? I’ve actually seen this team a lot in California (X/Iron Man A/Doctor Doom B)… With most picking a good ground character (Cammy/Guile/Hayato/Jill) for the first slot. More specifically, they’ll jump in repeatedly with that point while calling Iron Man (Unibeam)! Works like a charm until your opponent realizes what the hell is going onand even thenyou can work a good “lead stealing” strategy from it. So yeah, I like the team… seems like you’ve done a good job with it thus far!
Exactly… holding toward/backward while tapping HP is a no-lose situation for the opponent… and once he realizes this, he won’t not do it. I don’t know about Louisiana… but over here in California, it seems to be a rule of thumb. (In fact, if anyone here sees you get hit by an air throw combo, they’ll usually yell “hold back and tap fierce!” …at least as far as I can tell… :bluu: )
If you consider it an infinite in any way, shape or form… then yeah… you’re fighting newbies. Still, and in case you begin to fight good people… here’s a list of ways to respond to your opponent after the HP throw:
[list][*]neutral: ds. lk -> s. hk[/list]Easy enough… but most people don’t just sit there… I’d consider this as my third resort.
[list][*]roll: reverse dashing c. lk -> c. mp -> s. hk[/list]This should be your second resort. Once you show your opponent that you can punish a tech hit, he might begin to explore rolling… so if you can feel it coming on, go for this. It’s hard for people to block at first.
[list][*]roll: reverse dash, HP throw[/list]This is for when they can block after rolling. Personally, I’d only use it if I knew my opponent can block the reverse low short.
[list][*]tech hit: wave dash, HP throw[/list]If you know they’ll tech and wave dash after the throw, you’ll be able to throw them as soon as they wake. This should be the first resort against good players, since they know the tech can beat both second and third resorts. So yeah… once you condition them against it, move back to the good stuff. :wtf: … :lol:
Hmm… learning not to punish assists is like… Marvel 101. There might be instances where you’d actually be able to do it and get off scot free… but without top tier, they’re few and far between.
Most people here go for “psychic covers…” which is, simply, calling an assist and covering it instantly. I’ve seen people in Cali that’ll burn meter just to use their assist! So yeah, I’d rarely (if ever) do that… especially not with Iron Man second. (He can be punished by Cable, Commando, Cyclops, Doctor Doom, Magneto, Sentinel, Storm… and that’s just the top tiers!)
Yeah, it’s handy to know… but not abusable… like everything in Marvel. :rolleyes:
and yeah… I wouldn’t play Iron Man unless I could set up the infinite without assists. Heh… that’s why I don’t play Iron Man! (Anyone that can do the c. mp setup is instantly amazing to me. :lol: )
Yeah… Wolverine builds hella meter… and pulling him out with a DHC is a great thing to do (especially with air Fatal Claw!). I don’t know how that goes with Iron Man second, but if I didn’t have a safe super in that slot (Sentinel, Storm, etc…), I’d rather opt for a counter… preferrably one that gets sacked by a projectile on purpose (E.G. countering before the last hit of Hailstorm; during second wave of Hyper Sentinel Force, etc…).
The whole concept of “DHCs as bail outs” is lame, sure… but if your opponent is gonna go for them, don’t think twice about using them yourself. In other words, never hold back or prevent yourself from doing something because it’ll make your opponent feel crappy. If he was in the same situation, he’d be just as ruthless and cruel… trust me on this. Human nature might be inherently good, but not while they’re playing games. :rolleyes:
Nigga, I don’t have “confidence and bravery” on my signature for nothing!
Fighting Sentinel is tough, but doable. You have to know the rules. I remember that quite a few posts back, I said something about counter-calling assists against Sentinel… now I better… and at the risk of “hindering my credibility further,” believe me: calling assists against an expert Sentinel will get you absolutely nowhere.
Think about it. Unless you have Blackheart B, Sentinel can endlessly avoid your assist range simply by flying back… baiting it merely becomes a matter of flying toward you and backing out, which can be done over and over again. Furthermore, he doesn’t have to fly! By calling assists early, he can keep you from coming in; stay fullscreen and cover with Beam XX Fly XX Unfly over and over again (Unless you’re Cable, of course!)… and by dashing back or switching to fly mode, Sentinel can retreat as long as there’s no corner behind him. So as you can see, it’s pretty damn easy for him to stall an attack/keep his lead. In fact, he’s fuckin’ runaway Storm in disguise!
There’s only one thing you can do against a good Sentinel, and that’s bait out his assists. Once you do that, you’re actually getting somewhere. Keep in mind that when I say “bait his assists” that in no way do I mean “block them.” No. Baiting the assist means making it whiff entirely. Once you do that (and find whatever space you have to move), you’ll start getting places in the uphill battle he presents.
There are different baiting techniques for each assist, of course… but no matter what you do to avoid it, you’ll want to end up in front… but about a half screen away from him. Here’s why:
After realizing you’ve baited his assist, your opponent will either try to cover it or retreat (knowing full well you’re coming after him). DON’T MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE AS I! Although it seems as if you have an opportunity to attack the assist (either on point or with a counter-call), your opponent can easily nip that in the bud by using either of his beams… True, he may fuck up and cancel into Rocket Punch/Hyper Sentinel Force, but if that happens, you can always gain ground and attack him afterwards. So no… don’t attack. The goal here is to GAIN GROUND. Why? Because if all your opponent is gonna do is retreat, what you might as well do is back him into the corner 'til he can’t back up anymore. DON’T engage anymore than within half-screen, or you’ll risk getting rushed/being pinned by his assist (either of which could lead him to push you back). Just make sure that you can always steer clear.
So now he’s cornered. What’s he gonna do? Either turtle with his assist (which is easy to handle) or try to escape to the other side. SPARE NO EXPENSE IN PREVENTING THIS… if you let him out toward the other corner, that’s another 8-10 seconds on the clock you waste… and when you’re trying to get a lead on Sentinel, 8-10 seconds is time you can’t afford. Don’t get me wrong… if he gets out, stay calm and push him to the other corner… but once you get him there, make sure you’ll do whatever it takes to prevent him from going over or under you. The best way to prevent him from getting out is by STAYING ON THE GROUND. Keep keen.
The next step is easy enough: attack him. No matter what you do to avoid his assist, you’ll want to end up either directly above, beneath or behind Sentinel after it’s called, as those are the best spots to surprise attack him. Before, you wanted get in front and keep a half screen away (as your opponent wouldn’t give you any ground to work with)… now that he’s in the corner, use your ground, bring him down and stay on his ass.
Also mind that unless you have a fail-safe way to teleport to these places, you shouldn’t attack to get there (Don’t use Wolverine’s Berserker Slash!). ANYTHING WITH LAG WILL GET PUNISHED. With that in mind, follow these steps and you’ll be okay:
Rules for attacking Sentinel:
[list=1][*]Once you get close, ground him. The best way to do this and avoid disengagement (distancing him) is to activate flying screen. Easy enough… either launch and air combo him or hit him out of fly with a magic series.
[*]Once you ground him, stay on him. This is achieved simply by jumping in over and over again. Thwart any and all pushblock attempts by ground dashing right afterwards and continue to jump in.
[*]Avoid “Magic Sentinel Force…” his most potent defensive weapon (other than assists), an anti-air Hyper Sentinel Force will blow through whatever you’re doing and instantly give him the lead. You’ll be able to see these coming once your opponent stops pushblocking. In order to avoid them, you can either:
[list][]Jump, block and call an anti-air.[]Ground throw (He’s blocking all the time, isn’t he??).[*]Super jump and dive (Easy with characters like Doctor Doom, Magneto, Storm, and Wolverine).[/list]Just make sure that no matter what you do, you stay close and NEVER give him the chance to disengage (this especially goes for the throws, which give him an opportunity to tech or roll a good distance away from you).[/list]So in sum, fighting a good Sentinel is complicated only when he has assists. Mind that this doesn’t apply simply to ‘blow-through’ or anti-air assists, but to every kind of assist (Although long range assists may be blocked :rolleyes: ). Of course, if he doesn’t have one, things become a lot easier as getting close is less of a problem (just wave dash when he flies and dashing/super jump in when he stands), but there’s still the issue of grounding him and keeping him close. No matter what happens, just keep step 3 in mind (‘Magic Sentinel Force’ is a last, but potent resort!) and you’ll be cool.
Like I said, refrain from using that as anything with lag will get fucked. Are you talking about Sentinel Force (the drones)? Nigga, Wolverine has one of the lowest/fastest sprints in the game! Just dash up and throw that shit! :eek: … Good Sentinel players don’t use drones. (Of course, unless they can afford to! )
Also keep in mind that Wolverine can dash under Sentinel’s Y assist for free… so you shouldn’t have any problems there either.
So *SIIIIGH…*any questions? I know it sounds complex, but beating Sentinel is actually as easy as 1, 2, 3… If you want me to clarify or summarize the post, hit me back and I’ll try. In the meantime, on to post #5! :bluu: …
Trust me, nothing good will come of it. I used to think the only thing Berserker Rage was good for was 100% lockdown in the corner w/Doctor Doom… until someone decided to pushblock and throw. :bluu: … :rolleyes: … :lol: Yeah, but seriously… fuck that move.
I heard that Wolverine’s s. lk is an “unrollable OTG” when timed right. So I guess if you’re using Iron Man B, go for that…
I thought you were using Iron Man B in the first place… guess I was wrong… Personally, I’d go with Iron Man A… but hey, to each his own.
Actually, X/Iron Man B/Doctor Doom B gives a great team dynamic… so yeah, I’d go for that as well… once again, I stand correcting myself. :lol:
Yeah… see my last post. Why am I replying to this?
Another bit of advice you might wanna keep for future reference… don’t talk about things that you’re gonna test until you test them. Asking a question and then answering it yourself… Maybe I’m wrong, but I just don’t see the point to it. You’re a cool guy, Patch… just try to go easy on the posting from now on, yeah?
You’re like… totally innocent, dude. But don’t worry… I too, was like you.
It’s as if you haven’t opened your eyes to the cut-throat world of SF and fighting games… maybe you just haven’t hit the arcades enough. So for starters… some rules of thumb:
[list][*]Basics in training mode are important, but what’s more important is what your opponent does in the arcade. I can’t stress it to you enough: HIT THE ARCADES… and don’t worry about the quality (seasoned/newbie) of your competition. Experience is experience. If the same thing works over and over on a guy where you play, DO IT OVER AND OVER… but until he learns. Once you start making homies and getting a little Marvel thing going on, you’ll help the whole community gain experience. So yeah… go out there, spend your money (if you have to)… and play. Learn how your opponents respond. Because no matter how many hours you spend in training mode, ain’t nobody out there just willing to let you bust some masterpiece combo. Teach yourself to dig.
[*]If you have something that works… say, in theory, training mode or against the computer… it ain’t shit. Make it work in an arcade, THEN talk about/work with/elaborate on it. Most of what I talk about is tried and practiced throughout many different “levels” of experience, because I try to get an idea of that universal human nature… and eventually help people out in conversation or online… So yeah, even though I don’t try to win all the time, I do try to help people that think that winning’s the most important thing. You don’t have to do the same thing, per se, but you might wanna practice and try different strategies/tactics before continuing to work on/ask about them.
[*]If you want to get better, you gotta help people get better… think about it… ain’t no one in California that gets hit by Bonerine OTGs more than “once in a row.” So why milk them for all they’re worth over there? If you plan to contend or make some sort of impression in the future (…say at a tournament or upcoming major event), you’ll want to help your competition at least a litte so you can find out what to do against people that actually know what’s up! It just makes sense. So yeh… keep teaching until you run out of ideas… and once you do, use what you got and go for broke![/list]As to your post… Commando can keep Sentinel on the ground, but dude… don’t go for Bonerine unblockables/OTGs! Unless you wanna eat anti-air, you got to set an opponent up for an unblockable (which can only be done by activating flying screen)… and even then, you have to be fighting a nincompoop if you’re constantly hitting the OTGs! Help your opponents out, man… let em know what’s up before thinking you got what it takes. If you can win amid their new found knowledge AND against the odds… then you MIGHT end up having what it takes. Personallyand in retrospectI wouldn’t wanna win any other way.
THE TEAM IS NICE… don’t get me wrong. I actually dig the team. Just that… what can Commando do against Sentinel that Cable can’t do better? :rolleyes: If you’re really having that many problems against Sentinel, I’d rather go with Bonerine Y/Cable B/Commando B… or Cable B/Bonerine Y/Commando B… either way, you’re gonna wanna use Commando as your crutch and Bony as your battery for Cable.
In any case, here are some quick and easy assist combos for Cable:
Captain Commando
[list][*]*d.c. lk [call Captain Commando] -> c. mk -> s. hk XX ^ sj. hp XX Hyper Viper Beam[/list]*Insane damage if you wiggle right… also notice the manual super jump cancel of the roundhouse (as denoted by ‘XX ^’)… important to remember annotations!
Bonerine
When you connect with Bonerine assist (and they don’t roll), you’re gonna wanna use this combo no matter what:
[list][](Bonerine hits), d.c. lk (OTG) -> s. hk XX ^ Hyper Viper Beam*[/list]Which might set up a second one… so yeah… connect Bonerine any way you like… just don’t expect them to merely sit there. :lol: … :bluu:
People roll… it’s a fact! That being said, don’t depend on Bonerine assist for jack! It’s good to pressure people with “unblockables,” sure… but unless you have some sort of “anti-roll” strategies, you’re simply gonna have to accept that you’ll get little or nothing out of it.
NOT THAT I’M TOTALLY OPPOSED TO THE IDEA OF OTGs… no. Cuz yeah… like you said: “If the opportunity presents itself, why not?” I just don’t expect to hit with them or build my startegies around em, that’s all. Hopefully you’ve learned that lesson by now, and hopefully you’ll end up teaching your Marvel buddies HOW TO ROLL. Heheh… :lol: Anyways… on to the next post.
p.s. ALSO hope to hear some cool new stuff from you in the future… play on, Mr. Patch… play on.
Do you ever have deja vu? Yes, the computer rolls its ass off… and humans should, too. TRUST ME, Patch… YOU’RE NOT GONNA GET ANYWHERE UNLESS YOU TEACH YOUR OPPONENTS HOW TO ROLL. :mad: … :eek: … :lol: You gotta help your game.
… I wouldn’t connect it that way. It seems like a waste of super to me. Doom rocks do hella damage scaling and unless you’re DHCing out, Fatal Claw is an overall waste of time. BUT… to answer your question… most people would (ironically) ROLL as they recover from Fatal Claw… leaving you distanced and disengaged afterwards. No, I’d rather let the Doom rocks launch and follow with a six hit air combo… at least then, I’d be close afterwards.
Yeah… like Jesse said: flying screen. The last hit of BBX activates flying screen even when in the corner, so as a result, you won’t be able to perform either special moves, super moves, or super jumps until your opponent recovers.
…and like you said, It’d be better to go for a c. lk -> c. hp, jumping HP throw or TS’ version (c. lk -> c. mp, HP throw) afterwards. Great mixup opportunities with Doom.
Furthermore, I usually go for air combos (d.s. lk -> s. hk ^) off the OTG… since I like to stay close. However, if you KNOW they won’t roll and want to go for some extra damage (I.E. when they’re close to death), you could go for the Fatal Claw OTG:
[list][*]HP throw, d.s. lk XX HP Tornado Claw XX Fatal Claw[/list]…which could also lead to a killer DHC! Now, I know this looks difficult, but it’s actually quite easy to pull… Check my old posts and see!
Still looking. I could get one now, but I guess I’m kind of setting the bar high, you know? Waiting for something I can be proud of… sumtin to keep. Anyways, enough about that. I wanna thank you for all the support and interest you’ve given the thread (alone)… it’s always great to help interested players… and I hope you don’t get put off by my manner… I’m just trying to stay realistic, you know? Optimism is good to a certain degree (where else do you get ideas from?), but realism is what you need to make things work… I try to keep a healthy dose of both. Anyways, read what I said… take what you will… and thanks for all the bullshit!
Sup, TS… I like your little tourney log! Yeah, shit happens. Coincidentally, that particular kind of shit happens to me all the time! I suck at runaway, first off… and second, I always seem to end up playing “chase my tail” against a point I wanna snap back! :mad: … :lol: So yeah, I know what you’re saying.
By the way, I decided to solve the latter problem by NOT ATTACKING ASSISTS! Quite a concept, eh? Well anyways, back to what I was saying… :rolleyes:
… :eek:
You must know how to play Street Fighter if you’re asking this question. You’re from NorCal, aren’t you? Mmm… I suspect you got skills.
Yeah, although I did (and still) go for tactics that deter jumping, I do realize that it’s wrong. Why? Because of several things, actually… all of which I’ve learned in the past 2-3 months.
[list=1][*]Lockdown is a waste of time. Guard cancelling has caught on like wildfire, and therefore has made it a moot point to try. :bluu:
[*]Normal jumping is not “jumping.” At least not by SF standards. No, I think that instead, we ought to consider “normal jumping” in MvC2 as a viable ground game in… say, CvS2. Kind of like small jumping in A/P/N/S/K groove… or universal overheads in 3rd Strike. I mean, since all jump-ins can be backed up by assists, they can’t be launched! So ultimately, they’re great ways to rush points/punishing them for trying.
See, just like with small jumps and universal overheads, you can’t really punish them AFTER you see them coming. You’d have to either anticipate or prevent them from happening altogether in order to neutralize them… so that’s what you gotta do in MvC2: throw up a wall.
There are two ways to use defensive assists: as walls or as reversals. Reversal assists are for close encounters: by tapping the assist button repeatedly, you usually land them while getting rushed down… and given the fact that Magneto, Sentinel, and Storm can get close hits for free, you’ll want to avoid using reversals against them entirely. As a general rule, reversals require a territorial sacrifice, but are covered quite easily (since they clear your immediate space).
Wall assists are for long range combat: you’ll use them before the opponent has a chance to get in. As a general rule, walls are harder to cover (although they maintain your territory). Throw them up to prevent people from dashing/jumping in.[/list]In other words, I think we’d rather try to bait people to SUPER JUMP, where they simply can’t call assists… that way, no matter what they come down with, we’ll be able to have the “upper” hand on them. It’s all about using that level ground.
This is my new theory. I made a post about “underused” moves in General MvC2 Strategy where I talk about ground/air to air skirmishes. I’ve actually been thinking about it and using it to create an entirely new perspective on playing Marvel. Maybe it’s nonsense, but hey… can’t help but to thinking…
Sorry to say, but I have no clear answer for you. My guess would be to use defensive assists early to keep them from coming in… and to learn to punish super jumps by being where they are/crossing them up when they land. You can also try “jumping in when they do Hadouken” which doesn’t happen often, but nonetheless HAPPENS (Super jumping in on/punishing a Sentinel that does Hyper Sentinel Force)… but forget trying to combat normal jumping… it’s too damn hazardous in this game! :rolleyes:
Yeah, and forget about locking down… believe me, it’s not worth your time to learn anymore. :lol: … :bluu: Either dash and attack or dash and throw!
Anyways, thanks… if you wanna elaborate on the subject more, feel free to ask! In the meantime, catch you later…
I’m currently playing with Sentinel(ground), Bonerine(self-explanatory), CapCom(duh…). This Team Ownz! I don’t really feel like retyping all the cool stuff I had that got lost cuz I had too many images:bluu:, but it was really just chit chat, but I do wanna know what assist u put adamantium wolvy on on your double wolvy/sent team…don’t worry, u won’t be bombarded with naive inquiries like last time (least from me)…i’ve lost my MvC2 virginity…so to speak. If u wanna know how, then let’s just say um glad we ain’t talkin bout prison (ewwwwwwww…)
stay cool tho guy, thanx 4 bearing with me with all those questions that I consider stupid myself now…
Wolverines 4 life!
Bonerine 4 infinity!
Viva la Canucklehead!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Hmmm…damn! Does NO1 have NE questions or new stuff? Or has most evrybody given up on Wolvy! Yall culd least thank Joe 4 all his advice. I have seen few strats as detailed as the ones he posts, and am very happy to have some1 to look up to
You’re my hero Super Joe!
random ass kissing over
Really tho, I’ve gotta get back to practicing…To much ggxx has been OWNING me lately
I got a question, if u already answered it, please let me know where I can look to find it. Please help with Sent/Bonerine/CapnCommando vs Strider/Doom/CapCom. Baiting assist proves damn near useless…is there ne way around this besides…uh, a different team? I know that a snapback can have miraculous effecks, but that’s kinda hard to land to…I really just need sum solid advice…much appreciative!
Ha Ha Ha…I’ll always keep this thread alive, no matta what
Speaking of which, here’s the universal unblockable that can be performed with any character:
[list][*]After killing a character and next one comes in/snapback: [call Bonerine], jump straight up, deep j. hp/hk on the way down (land), d.c. lk (otg) -> launcher[/list]Of course, this doesn’t work against Dr. Doom or Storm, who can pretty much control their descent upon entry… but for the most part, it’s gold.
SIGH… WHEW!!! :o So much for the unblockables. I seriously doubt that either you or anyone will take them up seriously; I’ve given up trying to get people to use them a long time ago. Still, it’s good to get my thoughts in writing. Helps me play more rationally, you know?
You were right I completely overlooked this part and no-one else has commented.
You have to hit the opponent with j.hp/hk just before they land right? ( in order to be able to get the otg).Can people pushblock to escape this or do a j.jab when they see sentinel jump late?
Anyway my team of Doom - sentinel - Bonerine is coming along well, although it’s a tough match up against magneto when starting Doom.
Got a combo I’m working on…
Doom d+HP launcher, sj APA (time it well) xx HSF, launcher, sj. lp rocket punch,lk, DP rocket punch, flying screen, call Bonerine, j.HK.
the last j. hk call bonerine isn’t unblockable, but it’s a good trick that most people fall for a few times… as far as the combo, you’d be better off doing launcher lp lk lp lk rocket punch… after that many hits damage is going to be scaled like a beast so you’d probably be better off doing the easy combo that will take off the same amount of damage if not more.
when starting against magneto… doom can win, but why not just start sentinel and use sent/doom to kill mag? just a thought
Good Sentinel players don’t use drones. (Of course, unless they can afford to! 
forget I posted this:sweat: