MvC2: Joe Zaza teaches Wolverine

[System_1]

woo hoo. I got some wins with wolverine, bonerine, commando. Its a lot easier to play defensive with this team. Air stomp + commando works wonders on scrubs with the same skill level as me.

Then it gets really sad, i end up getting ocv by megaman. Jumping fierce mix with rockball + cammy or doom’s aaa. I got the beautiful choice of cammy as I jump in, or stay back and get chip to death by doom.

now important question: can a scrub do well with double wolvie?

p.s.: after that lost i decided to switch to sentinel, cable, commando. Ahh, damn wolverine is too complex.

[Joe_Zaza]

Saige

Throughout reading what you posted, you never mentioned Weapon X, considering it’s his strongest hyper (I believe), why do you choose not to use it?

I use Weapon X in a variety of situations… however, not in combos.

I think it’s best use is the “safe DHC”… although it isn’t exactly safe. The opponent can hit their AAA right after the DHC super flash, so yeah, you have to watch out. Otherwise, the only thing they can hit with is an instant reversal, like a DP, Shoryu-Reppa, Sonic Hurricane, and the like… most of the top tiers don’t have theseand the ones that do won’t do much damage with themso if you can neutralize the AAA, it’s usable.

Some facts about Weapon X… (in order of usefulness)

1. Neither Wolverine or Bonerine’s is invinicible… it used to go through fireballs, sure, but now it can get hit by just about any projectile you can think of.

2. Wolverine’s will stop if it connects with an assist. Bonerine’s won’t. However, if Wolverine’s connects an assist and a point at the same time, he’ll finish the combo.

3. Bonerine is completely invincible during the auto-combo until after the final hit… and you’d be surprised how many people have fallen for this over and over. Nonetheless, it’s a trickplain and simple. Don’t plan on getting anything real out of it unless you’re A) going to DHC or B) fighting someone that hasn’t seen it before (lame).

4. DHCing out with Bonerine’s Weapon X is a great idea if you have a clear shot at the helper, since it’ll twitch in place for the following attack… just make sure that the following or last DHC is one that’s safe/pins the opponent. Example: Weapon X a helper (invincible; point blocks), DHC into Magnetic Tempest, DHC into Hailstorm… and although opportunities like this are few and far between, it’s good to keep in mind.

5. Any downward projectile HC (Judgement Day, Photon Array, Tenma Gou Zanku, etc…) will most likely give full protection for a Weapon X DHC. Not that it’s game breaking info; just saying so for future reference.

6. Even though the super screen lasts after the final hit (indicating an opportunity to DHC) for one of the Wolverines (can’t remember which), you can’t DHC once you’ve landed the final hit… If you want to get the damage from the final hit and DHC into something else, however, you’ll have to input the command just before the last hit (when Wolverine does the frame for j. hp)… regardless of which Wolverine you’re playing. The timing on this is very difficult, however, and I wouldn’t seriously try if I were you. Like before, saying so only for future reference.

…and finally, some Weapon X combos… :bluu:

[list][](close) Claw Slide XX HP Berserker Barrage (otg; cross; tap 3 times) XX Weapon X*[/list]Only works with Bonerine. If you’re looking something like this:confused:don’t be alarmed. It’s rollable, incredibly hard to do, and utterly ridiculous. Huh? What was that? Yeah. Don’t do it.

[list][*]Claw Slide [call Bonerine Y/Wolverine A] XX Fatal Claw (Wolverine only)/Weapon X[/list]This works at either close or long range, but is, once again, rollable. It gives good damage, either way.

…and that’s it for that matter. Overall, Weapon X is only useful as a DHC, even with Bonerine, who is invinicble while performing it… the most I ever do with it is attempt to bring one in without punishment.

Thanks for asking… I hope that covers it.

[Joe_Zaza]

S3nTiN3L

what do you do about sent/tron besides snap in tron

I don’t know if low hits bag Tron Y, but I have seen Magneto hit her before she comes out… also, I could’ve sworn I saw someone snuff the assist with a jump-in before (!?). Personally, I don’t know. If I did know how to bag her, I’d fight a point with Tron head on… but since I don’t (and since she takes too long to bait), I usually snap her in.

Tron is like Doom… if you bait her assist out, it’ll take too long to do anything about it. Bagging her would be the best idea, but since she does so much fuckin damage, people get too afraid and zoned out. I think finding what snuffs her is a must to take her head on with Wolverine. If I could do that, I wouldn’t be scared… as much.

[Joe_Zaza]

Cornelius

How do I get in on somebody who also has a projectile assist?

“also” meaning in addition to… an AAA? Like I said in my second reply to totalScrubPower, doing that is tough. Personally, I’d try to find a method of attacking the point safely whilst bagging both types of assists. Either that or baiting out the assists whenever possible… I’d really have to stay sharp… and even though that could be attributed to me using Wolverine, I’d say the same thing for rushing down with Magneto, Sentinel or Storm… so shrug!

When am I gonna hang out with your greasy ass again?

:eek: … One of these days, buddy. Our destinies are “inextricably linked” now. :lol:

yippy skippy for life beeoch

[Joe_Zaza]

The Great Sephiroth

What are some good strats with using Bonerine [Y] Assist with Sentinel and Magneto? I don’t really understand the whole “Unblockable” concept of Sent/Bonerine [Y]…

…my Sent dies a horrible death to random peeps spamming on Cykes AAA to knock Sent and Bonerine out of range.

What’s up, Brendon. Good question… I’d say that’s the highlight of playing Bonerine. There are a few ways to set up the unblockable practically without having to deal with your opponent’s AAA.

With Magneto, it’s as easy as going for the Magneto/Psylocke combo:

[list][*]d.c. lk [call Bonerine] -> c. mk (Bonerine hits), c. lk (otg) -> c. hk ^ sj. hk XX down-forward ad. hk (land), [call Bonerine], j. hk (unblockable; land), follow up[/list]Of course, this is rollable… still: you have options whether it’s blocked or rolled.

Without going any further, allow me to explain what happens after the super jump cancel (^). I don’t know if anyone paying attention is familiar with what I call “SooMighty’s quick drop air combo,” but what it does is activate flying screen on an opponent very close to the ground. For example:

[list][*]c. hp ^ sj. hp/hk XX down-forward ad. hp/hk (land)[/list]Okay… now, for those not familiar with the properties of flying screen, this air combo is only possible if no air hits precede the first sj. hp/hk (adding a sj. lk before that hit would, for example, cause the sj. hp/hk to activate flying screen whilst Magneto continues ascending).

In addition, if you do more than one air hit while jumping-in before the launch (e.g. down-forward ad. lk -> ad. mk (land), c. hp ^), any jumping hard attack that follows will activate flying screen (making the “quick drop” combo impossible).

So if you plan to use this, be sure to learn triangle jumping with down-forward ad. hk instead of down-forward ad. lk -> ad. mk.

Okay… so why use this “quick drop” air combo anyway? Well, aside from having three consecutive fierces ( :eek: ), there are a few reasons. It successfully neutralizes assist calling for one… for another, you get a free (hi-lo) wake-up game since you knock them down and maintain your ground at the same time (!). Finally, you’re able to call your assist before he gets up! Ingenious.

So yeah, you can also do it after a manually super jump cancelled juggle c. hk (as opposed to the normal sweep c. hk)… just delay the up-down motion a bit, immediately hit sj. hk and cancel with a down-forward ad. hk.

The two set ups, once again:

[list][*]d.c. lk [call Bonerine] -> c. mk (Bonerine hits), c. lk (otg) -> c. hk ^ sj. hk XX down-forward ad. hk (land)[/list](less reliable)

[list][*]c. hp ^ sj. hk XX down-forward ad. hk (land)[/list](more reliable)

Note that regardless of which combo you use, you’ll subsequently be able to pull an unblockable with Bonerine Y. Simply call him as soon as you land, jump towards your opponent as he’s getting up and hit a deep hk as you land on him… believe me: even though the computer can in training, humans can’t block it; the timing is perfect: you connect a high and low hit at exactly the same time.

What’s followed up with isn’t too iffy… whether Bonerine or the j. hk connects (whether they block high or low, respectively), you’ll want to land and dash in with a c. lk. However, what comes next does depend on whether they block the sweep or jump-in. Not to worry, though: by the time you press the low kick, you’ll surely be able to discern the difference.

If you land the jump-in:

[list][*]j. hk (land) d.c. lk -> c. hp ^ sj. hk XX down-forward ad. hk (land) [call Bonerine], j. hk (unblockable; land), follow up[/list]…if you land the sweep:

[list][](Bonerine hits; land) d.c. lk (otg) -> c. hk ^ sj. hk XX down-forward ad. hk (land), [call Bonerine], j. hk (unblockable; land), follow up*[/list]Of course, it’s preferrable if you land the jump-in (since they can’t roll), but if they do roll, you can dash back and meet them either high or low as they get up (or HK throw downward… the possibilities are endless with Mags :rolleyes: ).

So there’s the basic idea… once you get a “quick drop” combo with Magneto, you’ll try as many times to repeat the unblockable until they’re dead. Trust me: it doesn’t take that long if you pull it successfully. Four cycles will murder any character (considering all the fierces and how much Bonerine Y does) and three is usually good enough (generally around 33% each cycle). Furthermore, I’ve been able to land consecutive cycles on my opponent’s (GOOD opponents) first character from the beginning of the match and kill it before the clock gets to 96/95 seconds ( :eek: ). It would be pretty potent in the right hands… and as much as I’ve tried to pimp its possibilities, no one’s bitten so far. :wtf:

What’s more, it doesn’t use meter! Come on now, people… recognize!

whew… and that’s just Magneto. On to Sentinel:

(continued on next post)

[System_1]

i was wondering if wolverine would be good with ken to stop rushdowns and people with cable doom?

[Joe_Zaza]

The Great Sephiroth

(continued from previous post)

Note that everything Magneto does with the unblockable is controlled… there are no times where you’d merely call Bonerine and try to triangle jumpyou’d get AAA’d for sure!

Sentinel, on the other hand, has the ability to go for unblockables indiscriminatelyprovided his opponent’s AAA is killed first. If it’s still up and kicking, you’ll have to do your best without incorporating Bonerine BEFORE actually landing unblockable set ups. Sounds difficult, but you’d basically be playing Sentinel like you would under common circumstances (fly assaults and baiting while incorporating his full screen game).

Either way, here’re my main set ups for once you get a hit:

[list][*]s. hk ^ sj. lk -> sj. mp -> sj. mk -> sj. hp (flying screen), [call Bonerine while dashing in], d.j. hk (unblockable; land), follow up[/list]It’s not all too common to land a clean s. hk with Sentinel… which is why, of course, I usually do this combo after a connected Hyper Sentinel Force.

Now, if you’re doing the combo from the corner (as opposed to in the corner), you’ll want to finish off the air combo with Upward Rocket Punch for extra damage:

[list][*]s. hk ^ sj. lk -> sj. mp -> sj. mk XX Upward Rocket Punch (flying screen), [call Bonerine while dashing in], d.j. hk (unblockable; land), follow up[/list]Why not do this all the time? Because the way that Upward Rocket Punch activates flying screen is such that your opponent lands way too far to do anything to him on wake up. Therefore, using it from anywhere but the corner will eliminate the unblockable option.

On larger characters, you’ll always want to use…

[list][*]s. hk ^ sj. lk -> sj. mp -> sj. mk -> sj. hp -> sj. hk (flying screen), [call Bonerine while dashing in], d.j. hk (unblockable; land), follow up[/list]…since its leaves them close and does more damage than the Upward Rocket Punch anyway.

And finally, the universal corner set-up:

[list][*]s. hk ^ sj. lk -> sj. mp -> sj. mk XX Upward Rocket Punch (pause), sj. hp -> sj. hk (land), [call Bonerine], j. hk (unblockable; land), follow up[/list]Again, note that regardless of which combo you use, you’ll subsequently be able to pull an unblockable with Bonerine Y. Simply call him as soon as you land, jump towards your opponent as he’s getting up and hit a high hk at the peak of your jump… believe me: even though the computer can in training, humans can’t block it; the timing is perfect: you connect a high and low hit at exactly the same time.

Now, unlike Magneto, Sentinel doesn’t have as many options… but since I’m not as proficient a Sentinel player as some, I’ll leave it to either Duc, Genghis, Kuan, Row, or Sanford to prove me wrong.

If they block the high hit, they’ll be swept… if they block the low hit, your only chance to get some damage (which would have to be done off the cusp) is cancel into fly, fast f. lp -> f. hk XX LP Rocket Punch. Too bad, because a) that’s hard enough to do and b) even if you did do it, it would end the unblockable options… but on to more positive possibilities:

sigh Usually, they get swept. I dunno why, I dunno how… but that’s the way it goes. It’s wishful thinking, I know… but even people here in So-Cal get swept the majority of the time. (Fact: I was doing this shit over and over at X-Cape during Evo2k2 [against good opponents] and no one seemed to catch on. It got to the point that I had to yell at my opponents to roll!!)

If your opponent was smart (like the people here in RiCo that’ve been subjected to it thousands of times), they would either block low to avoid getting swept (purposefully take the stomp) or simply roll either way. Still, opponents usually get swept and followed up by this classic little combo (which of course can be rolled):

[list][](Bonerine hits; land) d.c. lk (otg) -> s. hk ^ sj. lk -> sj. mp -> sj. mk -> sj. hp (flying screen), [call Bonerine while dashing in], d.j. hk (unblockable; land), follow up*[/list]Okay, so you can roll out of this… however, there’s a certain beauty to it: whenever you dash in and jump towards them with the hk, you cross them up, making it that much more difficult to roll out every time (lame excuse, I know… but shit works!). So what’ll actually happen is that you’ll go from one side of the screen to the next over and over again until your opponent’z dead (which, again, doesn’t take that long). :eek:

In the corner, it’s a whole nutha story. The combo takes about 80% on it’s own (including unblockable w/o follow up) and is rarely recycled… if you do, however, what happens should look something like this:

[list][](after Hyper Sentinel Force) d.s. hk ^ sj. lk -> sj. mp -> sj. mk XX Upward Rocket Punch (pause), sj. hp -> sj. hk (land), [call Bonerine], j. hk (unblockable; land), c. lk (otg) -> s. hk ^ sj. lk -> sj. mp -> sj. mk XX Upward Rocket Punch (pause), sj. hp -> sj. hk (land), [call Bonerine], j. hk (unblockable; land)*[/list]… and if they’re not dead by then, you’re doing it to a dummy in training mode.

Alternately, you could follow up with this (although it uses meter):

[list][](Bonerine hits; land) s. hk (otg) XX LP Rocket Punch XX Hyper Sentinel Force, s. hk ^ sj. lk -> sj. mp -> sj. mk -> sj. hp (flying screen), [call Bonerine while dashing in], d.j. hk (unblockable; land), follow up*[/list]You’ll probably need less than 1 rep to finish them off in this case… just like Deus: satan evil.

So there you have the “AA regardless” set/follow-ups for the Sentinel/Bonerine unblockable. Not exactly fool-proof, but still quite formidable.

Like I said before, if you want to go nuts going for unblockables while flying, you’ll almost certainly have to get rid of your opponent’s AAA first… so stick with what works. Just remember that no matter what, the unblockable is performed by calling Bonerine first, then jumping in with whatever character you choose.

Speaking of which, here’s the universal unblockable that can be performed with any character:

[list][*]After killing a character and next one comes in/snapback: [call Bonerine], jump straight up, deep j. hp/hk on the way down (land), d.c. lk (otg) -> launcher[/list]Of course, this doesn’t work against Dr. Doom or Storm, who can pretty much control their descent upon entry… but for the most part, it’s gold.

SIGH… WHEW!!! :o So much for the unblockables. I seriously doubt that either you or anyone will take them up seriously; I’ve given up trying to get people to use them a long time ago. Still, it’s good to get my thoughts in writing. Helps me play more rationally, you know?

And do any of the Wolvies have damaging combos with Tron Projectile? I can’t seem to do anything that does decent damage with Tron Projectile unless I cross them up ala Magneto/Tron or they’re in the corner…

… :wtf: … Come on, man. Any character can do damaging combos with Tron. Still, it’s a lot less complicated to explain that the unblockables!! All right, here’s what I got:

[list][*]d.c. lp [call Tron] -> c. lk -> s. mp (Tron hits) -> c. hp XX Berserker Barrage X[/list]…bringing back the Marvel 1 combo. Alternately, you could do…

[list][*]d.c. lp [call Tron] -> c. lk -> c. mk (Tron hits) -> c. hp XX Berserker Barrage X[/list]…with Bonerine. Either way, tons of damage. Still, I have my doubts as to the practicality of such combos; Tron’s better used defensively. Here’s another:

[list][*]d.s. lk [call Tron] -> s. mk (Tron hits) XX Weapon X[/list]I’m not too sure about the timing of the assist call, but it’ll work for sure with a little tweaking here or there. Leave this one at home: the BBX combos are wayyy more practical.

Like I said in my previous replies: ground combos are great to keep in mind, but for the most part, you want to stick with air juggles and pinning the opponent down. Otherwise, you’re trying too hard with a character that doesn’t need to.

Random question: How da hell do I beat Bill? That foo just plows through everyone here, though some of us can get random lucky wins on him once in every 20+ win streak he tends to go on…

Well placed AAAs. Too bad I don’t use them that often. :bluu: If that doesn’t satisfy you, ask the other people that can take him consistently: Keishin, Trance Man, and S3nTiN3L… a few people from NSJ can as well.

Hah… it’s good to see that you still care about being better than Bill (the competitive spirit and shit). Hope I answered all your questions sufficiently… stay up, stranger!

-LATE-

[System_1]

nice read i use mag/sent/bonerine and i found those tips useful… i’ll tell ya how i progress

[System_1]

I’ve gotten my ass handed to me by a pretty good Bonerine player. Of course, his team was Bonerine/Shuma/Capcom and I never realized just how much priority Bonerine has in his throws. I saw myself getting thrown a good 3 or 4 times in a row. Of course, it’s probably because I suck at this game. I find him rather interesting and I see him doing wonders for me more than Magneto or Storm since I can’t play the 2 of them effectively. Question…which Bonerine-themed teams do you play as or have you seen other good players use? I was using Bonerine/Sent/Capcom and Bonerine/Cable/Cyke and most recently toyed around with Bonerine/Storm/Cammy. Your thoughts?

[System_1]

Wow, thanks for providing me with some Wolvie strats. You really know your shit. Now if only you can find something with the other 40-something under-used characters in the game… :D:lol:.

[pulsr]

jugg owns wolverine

[System_1]

S3nTiN3L

*Originally posted by Joe Zaza *
**I don’t know if low hits bag Tron Y, but I have seen Magneto hit her before she comes out… also, I could’ve sworn I saw someone snuff the assist with a jump-in before (!?). Personally, I don’t know. If I did know how to bag her, I’d fight a point with Tron head on… but since I don’t (and since she takes too long to bait), I usually snap her in.

Tron is like Doom… if you bait her assist out, it’ll take too long to do anything about it. Bagging her would be the best idea, but since she does so much fuckin damage, people get too afraid and zoned out. I think finding what snuffs her is a must to take her head on with Wolverine. If I could do that, I wouldn’t be scared… as much. **

Cable AAA takes her out anytime during her assist as long as your point character is within 1/2 screen distance of the assist. Cable AAA OWNS!!! Trades w/ like every move in the game or beats it. Im not gonna get into that tho.

[Augmint]

OK got a couple of questions for the Bonerine team I’m using now (in order)- Bonerine (slide assist) - sentinel and doom. Against which teams would it be safer to use sentinel first and have Bonerine last? ( I never use Bonerine against any team starting with magneto).
Also does Bonerine have any guard breaks beyond the simple jump lp pause drill claw?
I’ve tried to call sentinel drones before jumping with lp so hopefully i can land and combo after the drill claw but to no avail.

[System_1]

Re: S3nTiN3L

*Originally posted by Wildcat *
**

Cable AAA takes her out anytime during her assist as long as your point character is within 1/2 screen distance of the assist. Cable AAA OWNS!!! Trades w/ like every move in the game or beats it. Im not gonna get into that tho. **

you possitive about that? ive played alot of people and have had his AAA used against me and it usally dosent work too well. hr ither hits her and he STILL gets hits by rings. On start up…ill give it to you BUT once she’s started…i doubt it…plus whats going to protect your cable from my cable… so the most you can possibly get from that is getting tron’s assist out and doing 4 or 5% dammage…not worth it IMO especially if cables behind her…woukldnt want to lose your cable now would we.

[System_1]

Hey, Jose, how do you beat a team of Storm/Sent/Capcom or Sent/Magneto/Capcom, when the entire match you are getting your ugly ass stomped on? Considering you have no anti-air and your Sentinel gets owned, how would you go about completing this quite difficult task.

[System_1]

“Higher Wolverine” > Regular Wolverine
:eek: :bluu:

[Unreallystic]

Reading this thread gave me some Wolvie ideas. I haven’t broken thru the whole thread - just glancing at stuff, but I had a few questions from what I have been doing…

For the most part I try to bait the opponent into leaving themselves open just long enough for me to get close, and then I poke to death with c. jab…it seems to stop ALOT of assist…although Doom just keeps throwing rocks…leading to my first question - any advice for getting around Doom? It isn’t too hard for my current team…which is question two…I have Wolvie followed with Iceman. Icebeam assist works well at cutting down doom assist, as well as - well chipping while I’m poking with cjab, cshort, cmedium repeat. Unfortunatly I have yet to find an AAA whcih does anything for me. I was looking at Cammy for a while, but she seemed kinda useless since most of the assist that I could use her to knock away- wolvie was doing with simply a cjab. So do you have any recommendations for a third character? Appreciate the help…
-:bluu:

[Th3_0N3]

ok, i’ve been playing me ol’ wolvy Sabre tooth team and i’m trouble with Cable keep away.

i need some good pointers on waiting on the right moment to strike. an analysis if you will.

common set up would be cable tk’ grenades and calls sent ground assist. and then would jump back up for a lp vb. i jump towards him and he would just do a close grenade and call assist. wtf i’m i suppose to do here? also when i get close, i can’t risk doing a barrage on him because he could just push block ahvb my ass.

so c’mon, help a poor guy out :lol:

[Joe_Zaza]

Chun-Li’s Pimp

I apologize for the delay, but shame aside… the show goes on:

I’m back… :rolleyes: for how long, I dunno! :lol: Truth be told, these posts take a lot out of me (although they’re most certainly worth it!)… Not to worry, I’ll get to every reply eventually.

Got any super great wolvie/doom stuff you wanna lay on me?

At the risk of being called stupid, I’ll admit that it took me while to discover that Doom B works nothing like Sentinel Y… whereas Sentinel’s assist is about keeping a point occupied until it reaches him, Doom assist is ALL about cross-ups and corner traps… not to detract from the effectiveness of Sentinel Force; this, incidentally, is what seperates the effectiveness of it from Doom B… If you cross up with Sentinel (which nevertheless can be effective), they have time to jump out. With Doom, they’re pinned.

OUTSIDE CORNER

Basically, there are two plots a character needs to make to incorporate good Doom cross-ups: over and under techniquesWolverine can do both. Dropping while going over is as easy as calling during a double jump or a neck hit… and while Wolverine doesn’t have a double jump, he can use his neck hits and dive kick to do this effectively.

OVER TECHNIQUES

Calling while connecting a deep cross-up j. hp can be done at the same time, but neck j. hps are hard to land. Jumping hk’s, while easier to land, require timing to connect with: you have to hit the button early… which means you’ll hit the kick and call buttons at seperate times. :bluu:

The other (and most effective “over”) way to bust a cross up with Wolverine is to connect a dive kick, call, and Drill Claw straight to the other side… and even though there’s some space between the kick connection and the calling of Doom, most people find themselves in a bind and don’t do anything about this (I would immediately super-jump after blocking the kick to escape, but nobody thinks of that!) Each “over technique” is iffy, sure, but the “under techniques” are much easier to perform:

UNDER TECHNIQUES

Calling Doom while doing any lunging move (or dashing) makes for an immediate pin when your opponent lands (incidentally, this applies to any character that can call and lunge at the same time: Bison, Jill, Magneto, Megaman [all c. hk], and so on). Wolverine has three moves that can do that, all ranging in terms of usefulness:

When your opponents land from a regular jump, use c. hp or the Claw Slide ( c. hp/Claw Slide + [call Doom] ), and when they land from super jumps, use his c. hk ( c. hk + [call Doom] ). These are your best options for “Doom rock set-ups.”

So what about follow-ups? Well, since you’ll want your opponent to take full chip, you’ll want to keep them pinned… a magic series seems the best way to go… but it’s really up to you. Personally, I would wait until after the first wave of Doom rocks before trying anything funny. Sometimes they block it, sometimes they don’t. However, if you’re absolutely certain they’ll block the first wave, you could go for a turnaround Berserker Barrage for extra chip:

[list][](just before your opponent lands from a super jump) c. hk [call Doom]; (opponent blocks first wave) XX LP Berserker Barrage, c. lp -> c. lk (opponent blocks second wave) -> s. mp XX HP Berserker Barrage[/list]*Note that HP Berserker Barrage A) can only be linked with a standing medium punch/kick (with Wolverine, at least) and B) can be punished by quick reversals (DPs and such; assists cannot exploit its recovery time). Otherwise, it’s pretty safe.

Also remember that this chip sequence leaves you little options at the end; it doesn’t delay disengagement. For that, you’d wanna try something more like this:

[list][](just before your opponent lands from a super jump) c. hk [call Doom]; (opponent blocks first wave) XX LP Berserker Barrage, c. lp -> c. lk (opponent blocks second wave; pause), d.s. lp (tick), HP throw, follow up[/list]*Since there’s a pause between attacks (to coordinate the blockstun of Doom rocks), you’ll have to learn this shit before just doing it. Otherwise, you’ll get hit by an AAA/become victim to a mashing combo or some random shit.

…and as I mentioned before, there’s the possibility of your opponent actually getting hit by the rocks… In those cases, you could do shit like this:

[list][](just before your opponent lands from a super jump) c. hk [call Doom] (opponent gets hit by first wave; pause), jf. lk -> j. hp (land; opponent gets hit by second wave), sj. lp -> sj. lk -> sj. mp -> sj. mp (double hit) -> sj. mk -> up-forward Drill Claw[/list]*I’ve done this one a lot. However, I haven’t tinkered with Doom enough to know whether this would work:

[list][](just before your opponent lands from a super jump) c. hk [call Doom] (opponent gets hit by first wave; pause), jf. lk -> j. hp (opponent gets hit by second wave) XX Fatal Claw XX DHC[/list]*…which is a Wolverine combo only. So shit… I guess I’ll leave testing the idea up to you!

By dashing, you can also go for “under” type cross ups between the first and second wave of Doom rocks… just keep in mind that no matter which wave, Doom rocks always juggle up-backward (or, in the case of a cross up, up-forward)… meaning if they get by the first, making cross ups between waves is hella easy… and hella effective! The only downside, however, is that the second wave usually juggles your opponent too high to do anything but an air combo (whose damage will probably be scaled to shit, but can delay disengagement either way).

Another question you might ask is what to do if your opponent is hit while blocking either wave… which depends on which wave they get hit by… consider this:

[list][](just before your opponent lands from a super jump, walk under them and call Doom; opponent begins to high block first wave…) c. lk[/list]*You’ll most certainly break their guard, but won’t be able to follow up conventionally (as explained before, no matter how they get hit, a Doom rock will always juggle up-backward). Instead of finishing the “guard break” with a ground cancel, you’d have to end with your best juggle… and since you have the opportunity to cross before/knock your opponent into the second wave, what you do after they get hit by the first one is, again, up to you to design.

So much for Doom cross ups… WHEW!! And that’s only outside of the corner… :rolleyes:

INSIDE CORNER

Contrary to popular belief, I wouldn’t use Berserker Rage to trap with Doom… Wolverine controls space well enough on his own, so I think it’s grossly unnecessary. If I got someone in to the corner with Wolverine/Doom, I’d actually do something like this:

[list][](all blocked) d.c. jab [call Doom] -> c. lk (pause; opponent blocks first wave), d.c. jab -> c. lk -> c. mk -> c. hk XX LP Berserker Barrage (opponent blocks second wave; pause), j.u. lk -> j. hp (land; pause; block AAA), [counter-call Doom], sj. lp (to thwart escape) -> Dive Kick, etc…[/list]*Now, if your opponent doesn’t have an anti-air assist, then you’ll probably want to continue after the jumping attacks… and if he gets hit by rocks, then you’ll probably want to juggle him in the air and continue right afterwards… either way, what happens between this sequence is your call. Note that I stopped attacking after the first two hits (Doom rock set up) to adjust for pushblock… however, whether they do or not, they’ll be pinned (by either s. lk or the Doom rocks)… furthermore, when doing this sequence with Bonerine, you’ll probably want to cancel the Dive Kick (at the end) with a downward Drill Claw to facilitate landing…

…and that’s it for Wolverine/Doom! Any other questions on the subject are quite welcome as my experience with the team is limited… In fact, you’ve prompted me to think about it more than ever! Thanks…

…is it true you can’t airthrow in speedup mode? I know you can’t on the ground…

I don’t think so, but I honestly don’t know… Like I said many times before: Berserker Rage sucks; don’t use it.

Always happy to reply to you, Justus. You’re my hero in more ways than one…

[Vance]

What’s the best third characters for a Wolverine/Bonerine team?