Most Skill Based Fighting Game?

[Branh0913]

SFII takes way more skill to play than 3s. Play against someone who knows what they are doing, and you’re going to have a really hard time being able to hit jab without losing half of your life. I can understand you like 3s and all, but if you know nothing about another game, please just don’t talk about. SFII is what I consider a strategically deep game. There is a lot of stuff to study about the game to be competent in it, even matchups, which doesn’t exist in 3s.

Also getting third against people who probably can’t play isn’t saying much. Also if Tekken is so easy and you can “compete with the top players” with little practice, then go to Korean and play the likes of Nin, Knee, or Helpme. I’m going to guarantee you you’ll be singing a different song.

Really, at the most basic level games like Tekken or SF2T seem really easy to play. But I think you’re confusing technical stuff and execution with difficulty. They are games that require a lot of practice and a lot of knowledge, that I doubt you’ll pick up unless you play against really top level players. There are things about SFIIT and Tekken that may fall below your radar. One thing are concepts of whiff punishing and spacing. Knowing a juggle or two, or knowing a 50% combo in ST isn’t going to help you much.

[_Rugal.B]

In no order.

cvs2, ttt, mvc2, alpha 2,and 3, vf series, 3s, and the real st.

[Artayes]

SFII takes way more skill to play than 3s. .

LOL you obviously don’t play 3S. I started with SFII when it first came out. I used blanka, dhalsim and zangief. I played agianst and have beaten top players at SSFIIT many times and was considered a top played myself just more under the radar (the way I prefer). I played in major SFII tourneys (never won but did good and beat some pro players in casual play).

I played SFII at the arcades pretty much everyday until alpha series, marvel series, sfiii, and tekken series came out. I played those alot for many years and still play 3S as I dropped the others basically.

SSFIIT is very technical and far more so than SFIV/SSFIV, but no where near the level of 3S. not even close.

I rarely played GG and VF and honestly don’t care a great deal for them, but I know plenty of players that do that play them and recognize them as some of the best and most technical games of all time.

I played SMASH as well, and while it is fun and does contain some technical gameplay aspects to it and definitely strategy, it doesn’t fall anywhere near the level of SSFIIT, 3S, GG, ETC
but I would say SMASH is atleast as difficult as SSFIV/SFIV as I see it. which is not saying alot but still saying something.

I obviously could never touch pro players at Tekken, yet alone the beasts that you mentioned, but I am decent at the series and played in quite a few tourneys over the years at it. I have beaten top players and even rumbled with one of the best players in the world at it- Mickey, who I don’t know by his handle but he is also one of the best at the world in Soul Calibur (which I lose the majority to him in both games).

But stating that does not change the fact that Tekken is not as technically advanced as 3S, GG, MVC2 or the VF series (the games that others have mentioned here as being the most hardcore in the series).

I asked a few veteran players what fighting gamest hey thought were the most hardcore/technical. larger learning gap, etc, and although most of them though VF was boring, they still put it on top of the list (and I respect that) but it was followed by 3S and GG by the majority.

SSFIIT while overall its a pretty technical game, it is still at its roots like most other fighters to be somewhat scrubby and ridden down with too much over prioritized stuff and other spamming that you can’t do much or anything about becasue of lack of options.

While 3S is not paticular balanced, it doesn’t matter when you can get good enough to overcome those things because not only are the universal options made so that you CAN do that, it is also made to where precise timing and exectution becomes the biggest factor to ALLOW yourself to overcome those feats.

The biggest thing you also have to look at is the gap between players. How big is it? while everyone and their grandmother got good at SFII, the same thing can NOT be said of 3S. Only the most dedicated few strive and keep playing everyday to become epic and also because its so much fun.

GG, VF and 3S are so technical in fact, for that reason alone is why they only have hardcore fanbases, and you can EASILY tell right away who is better in a match unless the opponents are pretty even skill-wise.

so yea, every game can be competitive and technical, but this discussion is about the most technical fighters with the biggest gaps between pro and newbie. so again-

3S
VF
GG
MVC2
that is all.

[TrueSephiroth]

Your examples argue that play diversity can come from how players use a character. It in no way attempts to argue that a larger pool of different characters doesn’t increase play diversity. And how could this not be the case? If player interpretation breeds more play style, and there’s more viable characters for players to interpret, its very likely to lend to more viable play styles.

Also, I never said diversity ONLY occurs from a wide range of characters, but I would say it’s the primary factor. Without it, you have a relatively very small pen to move around in.

Let me say this again, in Tekken 4 nearly more then half the cast couldn’t even compete against the Top-Tiers and yet the game itself was incredibly deep (Understanding how to build defenses around jabs, something that was nearly non-existent in all other Tekken games, understanding wallpushes, understanding the high-low platforms of the stages to position your character to the advantage, etc, etc, all of those factors which has nothing to do with character balances). In CvS2 w/o RC’s, many of the cast can get literally raped by the Top-Tiers very convincingly. MvC2 again, highly unbalanced, and yet all of these fighting games even with it’s small available character class for competition can still rival nearly almost any “balanced” fighting game in terms of strategy. This isn’t pertaining to just diversity here.

Again, you are arguing only one factor which is what I was pointing out of the multiple factors that can attribute to making a game “deeper”, you can still have a balance game, however if the fighting game engine itself is terrible then the depth of the game will lack incredibly (Take Tekken5:DR for example, arguably the most balanced Tekken game of all time, however it’s a minnow in terms of depth and strategy in contrast to T4 and Tag which were nowhere near as balanced, but had better polished options within how you played the game).

Something like Street Fighter II : CE may be unbalanced in the fact that CE. Bison can destroy you with one connected hit, however in terms of just pure strategy like zoning, footsies, spacing, thinking 2-4 steps ahead are all there and priority #1 that rivals Hyper Fighting which was by far the most balanced SF game of all time. Then you have one other large problem that most people simply forget and that is that most fighting games that were great yet happened to be incredibly balanced at the same time were just simply flukes (When you modify it for it’s next release you don’t know if it will have improved it or made it worse, which happens alot!).

You can even go through the entire Evo fighting game line ups from past to present, and there will be more unbalanced fighting games there then the latter, and yet most of those that don’t even stack up with character balance can be as strategical as those that were.

[Tech_Romancer]

Glad to see Tekken 4 is getting some appreciation. I finally came to accept and enjoy T5 DR and T6 but I’ll always love what Namco tried to do with the system in T4. It was flawed, character balance and mechanics wise but it was far too hasty of the community to write it off like they did when it was only a first attempt. Had it received an update akin to T5 5.0 ~ T5 DR I think it would have been hands down one of the best in the series.

[Kelter_Skelter]

SynikaL, just don’t bother with them, its no good arguing with people if they just won’t accept the truth. Just move on, you can’t win with these people.

SSBM takes a lot of skill to play and I’d like to all these bashers go 1 on 1 with the top 5 players.

I’d be homerun batting all those asshats.

[ShaoTatari]

Pretty childish discussion going on here.

A bit more on top reply: It’s very hard to measure skill, but on OPs standing, I’d say Guilty Gear or SSBM.

[Kelter_Skelter]

In smash brothers everyone is a pokeball in the face away of being sent off the screen

How does completely random results qualify as a skill gap?

[eclipso]

In your opinion what are the top three games where the skill gap between nubs and skilled players is the largest.

I am going to say:

1. Killer Instinct has a huge gap, one mistake vs. a skilled player and your eating a big combo and dead unless you know the correct button input to break the combo.

2. VF 4, its been said numerous times

3. Third Strike and its been said numerous times.

[Tech_Romancer]

SSBM.

Pretty childish discussion going on here.

Indeed it is.

In smash brothers everyone is a pokeball in the face away of being sent off the screen

How does completely random results qualify as a skill gap?

Well they say that by “altering” (raping) the game and placing rules on it that no real fighter would ever require, they eliminate this annoying “randomness”. Furthermore the discovery of “deep” and “execution-heavy” moves (read: glitches) that were removed in the sequel make that game invalid and “no longer a respectable entry in the series”.

Despite the fact the system is meant to be like that to begin with (multi-player madness). Yeah, I laugh everytime I hear it too.

[Gravelneed]

Indeed it is.

Well they say that by “altering” (raping) the game and placing rules on it that no real fighter would ever require, they eliminate this annoying “randomness”. Furthermore the discovery of “deep” and “execution-heavy” moves (read: glitches) that were removed in the sequel make that game invalid and “no longer a respectable entry in the series”.

Despite the fact the system is meant to be like that to begin with (multi-player madness). Yeah, I laugh everytime I hear it too.

Holy shit. This is truth.

[ShaoTatari]

Indeed it is.

So is your attitude. But I’m not saying SSBM takes more skill than your beloved games, I’m going by what the OP said, just saying.

the skill gap between nubs and skilled players is the largest.

And the gap between novices and veterans is pretty big on SSBM, that’s pretty much why I mentioned it.

You know, this kind of attitude doesn’t help the community as a whole. I’m leaving the thread, thanks for your concern.

[Hecatom]

reasons why i cant take seriously smash
http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/a/ae/Tourneyfag_Post.jpg
http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/f/f5/Tourneyfag_banns.png

and this pretty much sums what i think about the community
http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Tourneyfag

lol

[digimonemporer]

LMFAO…

it nnnnnnnneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevvvvvvvvvvvver ends.

:lol:

[Mr.SNK]

I don’t get it though… I mean Evo gives them their Dark Emo Corner every year… Yet they still cry for validation… Some peoples kids.

Oh and for the record alot of high level SF players also do GG/VF/TK and KoF.

[FPStud]

Nice, logical rebuttal.

Do you want to play, or not?

whats up with all these smash idiots thinking they are smart by using, actually trying to use, logical fallacies? It’s like all these jackasses think they are elitist or something. If you were so smart, you wouldn’t fucking play smash, especially not for six fucking years of your one and only life, and wouldn’t brag about it on shoryuken dot com. it’s like their immediate fallback. “[smash insult] Yeah, well [logical fallacy citation]. [thinking they won].”

man i don’t even have the time or patience to tear your bitch ass argument apart. ill finish this by saying go fuck yourself.

[Kelter_Skelter]

I used to just turn a blind eye to these smash players and let them play their game in peace but when they start coming on here saying it’s the most technical and highest skill barrier fighting game out there, I draw the line.

It’s a party game and that’s that.

[Mr.SNK]

And that’s the other thing I don’t like about the Smash scene. Most of them are uptight douche bags that have a bad attitude no sportsmanship or just don’t know how to have fun. It’s like an Electronic Version of YGO and MTG all over again.

If SF players don’t like each other they just money match that shit and it’s settled.

[digimonemporer]

This smash arguement has been going on for a decade (hopefully one day it dies). I was even part of it, and pretty much let it go.

Because…

truth of the matter is, is that it boils down to this:

• People on here who don’t even play the game, really have NO SAY if the game is technical/most skilled based or not (imagine how you’d feel if a Tekken player came on here and said that 2d games/SF4 are “random” and that they’re “noob friendly”).
• People on here who claim they play the game, are probably scrubs anyway and talk down about the game and claim it’s not that great. And it also can simply be because they PLAY and UNDERSTAND other fighting games better.
• People who do infact play the game competitively and can respect both sides of the field.
• People who do infact play the game competitively, and are pro, and try to play other fighting games - claim smash isn’t that great/most skilled/techinical…because they’re pretty good and have learned all there is to know about the game. In short - it bores them and playing other fighting games is now a challenge to them.
• People who do infact play the game competitively, and are pro, and try to play other fighting games - claim smash is just as great/most skilled/technical…because they treat the game as it’s own separate fighting game (game mechanics/system/etc.) and respect other fighting games with their uniquenesses.

Now which one of these are you?

[Mr.SNK]

Digi, I respect fighters. I don’t respect people with Bad attitudes or poor sportsmanship.

Which is all I ever see coming from that Side of the Fence.