It really, really is. I dunno how well it’ll work against smarter opponents, but that HK fireball has a lot of use, doubly so if you don’t mind spending the meter on the EX LK+HK fireball, as well.
I like FSE, I really do and I think over time it’ll be the better of the two. Off of the current most practical combos we have for both of them (cr.mk xx low release FADC ultra) with full meter U2 you get like 480 damage, while with FSE you get about 300 and about 13 seconds to work with. I think I can land 180 damage in the course of 13 seoncds.
If nothing else, it’ll change how your opponents play. You can use it from far and just try to chip people away since you have an easy 300+ combo on them if they screw up and do anything that’s -4 or more on block. Some people also tend to become more reversal happy when you activate it, which you can just bait and punish for again, 300 damage. FSE is good stuff.
I agree on what you say Zujira. I just think myself that noone uses FSE because getting in the the problom once activated. And if they use FSE they lose there crutch once the health starts to grind away. Cant spam it out. I really do agree with you that it is better in the long run, but until a high level tourny happens and someone shows how good it truly is then I dont believe people will use it over Kaisen(Ultra2).
Like I said before, it’s only going to get stronger as the game develops. Still, as has been said by myself and others, it loses one of the biggest advantages of CCs in other games: speedy access. GeneiJin, A-Groove, and V-Isms all built fairly quickly (or lightning fast in GeneiJin’s case) whereas FSE requires you to be low on health, and you get one shot at it.
My belief is that its main draw is going to be guaranteed damage rather than big damage. One of the biggest problems with some Ultras (such as Guile’s U1) is that your chances to use it effectively are few and far between and so you’ll probably be sitting on this full bar that’s practically useless to you. U2, on the other hand, gives a meter that you’re bound to get SOMETHING with.
If you activate at 50% and focus like 1-2 hits at some point during the match you will get at least two chances to FSE that round. You only need 50% revenge for all the benefits of FSE anyhow.
I personally like Ultra II at the moment for it’s practicality and guaranteed damage (not to mention, it has the coolest Ultra animation in the entire game).
FSE is still pretty “new” and needs time to grow. However, SF4 has many defensive options (back dash, reversals, OS techs, etc.) which render such pressure games less than stellar. Until Juri is really fleshed out, I still think Ultra II > FSE. Not to mention, for FSE to be used to it’s fullest, I feel it needs to be combo-ed into upon activation (e.g. lk fb release> FADC > FSE). Regardless, as time goes on, things change. I still think it has potential, most definitely.
At the moment, I usually only use FSE against characters who are free on their wake up (e.g. Claw, Cody, etc.). But as far as tournament play goes, I will most likely be sticking with Ultra II regardless of match up (for now).
Also, here is a video of one of Marns FSE set ups. Nothing special imo but worth noting still (I don’t know if this has been posted on the video thread but here it is):[media=youtube]HjlZWYa9UVg"[/media]
I’ve actually been curious about that: do you get a longer timer if you wait to activate FSE?
yeah the more you fill your ultra bar the time is longer. but i agree with everyone FSE is going to get better once we learn how to fully utilize it.
yeah the more you fill your ultra bar the time is longer. but i agree with everyone FSE is going to get better once we learn how to fully utilize it.
Just found another little something interesting aout Juri’s corner game that I don’t think has been mentioned. If you finish a corner combo from about half of c.mk distance, and finish it with mk pinwheel, you can use Juri’s dash to cross under the opponent. What I mean is something like c.lk s.lp c.mk xx mk pinwheel or c.mk low fuhajin release, c.mk xx mk pinwheel.
Of course it’s just a little shenanigan, but I think it’s pretty interesting.
Here’s a little project for anybody wanting to see FSE used more and more effectively.
Use it like you would U2. I know, this will get called out for a bunch of reasons. This doesn’t work with the EX dive kick setup, you aren’t safe to use it on wakeup, and your options for punishing on reaction are reduced. That said, I still say use it like U2. That, or use it at the end of a link that ends in a pinwheel.
Why? As people have said, U1’s biggest problem is getting in with it. I can’t help but compare FSE to Makoto’s HOT SAUCE (lol I don’t actually know the name of her power up special) in its use, except that it’s an Ultra and not a Super. That said, maybe it should be used in a similar way – I’ve seen a friend’s Makoto do something like jab, cr.jab, jab, command grab, hot sauce, ultra for mad damage. This is only a slight variation on one of his BnBs with Makoto, which goes something like jab, cr.jab, jab, command grab, Hayate or Ultra. The point is that he doesn’t have to adjust his game that much but he can easily incorporate his powerup special within the combo. In using it like this, he’s using that powerup super in a “guaranteed” situation – it’s fired off when he knows he’ll be able to capitalize on its initial effectiveness at the very least, he’ll use it for the power boost it gives the end of his combo.
I know Juri doesn’t have a command grab, but I think the basic thinking along this line is similar, and should be adapted to Juri’s FSE game. This is why I say use it as U2, specifically at the end of a combo that ends with U2. EX dive kick will still serve to put them basically at your feet, if not back them into a corner and make them panic, and you can capitalize on that. As mentioned earlier, storing hk fireball and throwing lk’s is great bait to bring them to you as well. A pinwheel finish to a link combo also puts you right up in their face, especially if it connects. If you can fire off FSE during – or after – that and come up with a way to capitalize on the effects immediately or shortly after, you’ll have solved the “getting in” problem and blow the possibilities for FSE wide open.
Yeah I know, this is all just theoretical BS and now because of rescheduling I won’t be able to pick the game back up until this Saturday :’( but it’s something to think about for everyone practicing. “FSE is hard because you have to get in after you use it” is only an issue because it’s assumed you’ll use FSE before getting in on your opponent. This is a really big proposition…one that may challenge some peoples’ fundamentals…but I think anyone willing to take the challenge and attempt to find a way to incorporate FSE into a combo will greatly improve their game for it. Can somebody find a way to initiate FSE during a normal combo?
If anybody thinks we should have a “let’s make FSE worth using” thread go ahead and make it, otherwise I’m just gonna leave this here.
FSE isn’t even that hard to get into, people are just overthinking it. Forward throw into corner, (LK fireball hold if you want) FSE, bam. Midscreen forward throw, dash dash EX fireball FSE, go go go. Hit a divekick with no followup, FSE, you’re in. Sweep, FSE. j.strong x2, close fierce xx hold short fireball, FSE. etc. etc. Or combo into it, whatever. In the corner you might even be able to like forward throw, FSE, safe jump on some characters. At the very least you can cross them up and beat some reversals that way.
Hell, even just blah blah EX low fireball FSE isn’t bad.
That’s just the really obvious stuff. FSE, jab counter against some fireballs or long pokes is pretty good. You can FSE through some stuff if you time it right, not super reliable yet but it’s there.
I don’t think people are not using FSE because juri can’t get it. She can.
There has to be a reason for people to get hit by something during FSE and SF4 is not a game where the ideal spot is in your opponent face doing mixups. Not at all. That’s why you see the poster that said he uses FSE on people that are free on wakeup. ie: have shitty reversals. I dont wan’t to do mixup blockstrings against a sagat with enough bar to FADC an uppercut. I don’t want to do that against a gief with ex SPD, not to mention backdashes witch add another layer that are not in your favor. Scaling also sucks.
Unless people find antiair FSE combos, abilities to link it from normals, unblockable traps or guaranteed ways to combo off bnbs, FSE will stay as is. What we need is not another 10 videos of combos requiring a full super bar and 3 charged kicks, we’d need reliable ways to land it.
So I think yesterday there was a live stream that had John Choi (Juri) beating Ricky Ortiz (Rufus). Does anyone have videos of this? I want to see how John is using Juri.
I think FSE is the better Ultra to use. The problem as stating before is getting in. Its not good to activate FSE at full screen. My opponents usually just run away until the timer goes out. Its best to do it after a back throw (forward throw pushes them to far away), after a sweep (you then have mix-up options, but be careful of reversals), or after a Focus Attack Crumple. I prefer option 3 because once it connects, I dash in Ultra1 and then go straight to work. Other ideas about doing it after Dive Kick/Pinwheel should work because they leave the opponent right near you.
Not sure if this works, but I will test to see if we can activate FSE off a LK fuhajin > FADC > Ultra1>jab… I think this will work if I connect the lv2 FA that cause them to crumble. I’m uncertain if I just dash in if I can connect with Jab after FSE activates. It’s still early in the game, and I’m sure we can find a way to successfully use/connect FSE.
Holy shnaps, some good posts, lol. I been lab workin’ training mode and forgot about the thread, lol. Things I remembered to comment on…
Anti-air: for those asking about this, you’ve got 3 options. s.HP is decent, but will trade with close jump-ins. I only use this for zoning purposes ie: we’re full screen away and my opponent is jumping towards me, i’ll walk up a bit and use s.HP as they jump since its got pretty good range. in short, use s.HP if its a far jump in. c.HP is ok, but I find that it trades a lot. If you feel the damage in trade is in yur favor, then go right ahead and continue using it. I, however, prefer touse c.MP. I’ve yet to trade with this yet and find it highly reliable.
counters: If you’re gonna use a wake-up to get out or away, EX counter is the way to go. if you’re in the corner, use it to dash away if you’re the safe type of player. If you wanna be aggressive, use it to jump up diagonally and use j.HK as a cross-up and finish off with your favorite combo. Also, with some counter practice in training mode, you can practically punish shotos for free by countering their fireball.
pokes: MK is your best poke. Beats other pokes clean, can even be used as an anti-air (though expect to trade a few times). MK also hits twice when close enough, beats out those people who like to FA when close. HK is a decent poke moving you forward as well.
fireballs: very important to your gameplay, especially stocking them.You don’t necessarily lose your ability to tech throw, you just lose the ability to option select thech throw. stocking your fireballs helps your gameplan whether its aggressive rush or turtle, so utilize it. It also helps build tons of meter if your opponent is playing keep away as well.
Ultra: FSE is going to be the future. I’m lab working with FSE right now, and I’m absolutely sure this is the one tool that changes her from zoning/poking style to a complete aggressor. Pull this off once, and get a combo that does even just a measly 300 damage, and you’ve already instilled the fear into your opponent. from there, you just break them down. There’s more setups to it then people think.
That’s all I can remember, lol. FSE ftw.
hi. i’ve been using juri for the last couple of days and along with deejay, she’s definitely one of my favourite new characters.
couple of quick questions:
after ex divekick, i go for ultra 2. sometimes it hits, other times it whiffs. without having to go through 39567 pages on this forum to find out why, can someone clarify the exact point you need to hit it.
after a 1 hit normal divekick, i go for ultra 2. i’ve only managed to hit this twice so far. again, whats the determining factor behind whether this hits or misses?
and finally
any tips on getting that cr.lk, st.mk, cr.lk link down for her ultra 1 combos. i’m good with all of her other links. but i’m having problems with this one for some reason.
thanks very much in advance.
FSE is too much fun.
Anyone else getting grabbed out of Ex Pinwheel on wakeup? I had it happen to me a couple times in a row last weekend…REALLY sucks.
i think juri is a good player. If you use her EX air kick you can either use her spin kick right off the bounce or ultra.
Does anyone know what frame juri is considered airborne for her overhead? I’m wondering if we could use it as a sort of anti-tick throw. Probly safer to just TK divekick, but might as well explore.