4 frames to jump. Even if you are “unsafe” i doubt they would react to the situation fast enough to punish properly. I dont think anyone has punished me properly on failed fuzzys but also because i dont use them often, i do use jump in mp to divekick though quite alot and ive never felt “oh fuck” ive always kind of been “im cool”. Dont think theres much they can do.
Hmmmmmm. Jump back dive kick is really unsafe though.
And you can’t fuzzy guard with jump back mp, right?
what? i assume by fuzzy guard u mean jump in RH xx IA Jump forward mp xx divekick.
Thats the way it should be done at least.
edit: Misunderstanding on my first post, you thought i meant divekick when you hit the ground, i meant the divekick that you cancel off the J.mp, which is the fuzzy guard i assume you mean.
I’m lost. What other fuzzy guard is there besides blocked RH jump mp or hp?
There are ways to setup fuzzy guards. It just takes some exploration.
I think the confusion was a jump back or Jump forward.
You can use nj hp. It’s a popular one for me to use. It’s one of my tells though. I personally really like using nj hp. Covers a few bases. And I think it works on a few more characters on hit.
I’m gonna work on my instant dive kick to blow up throw attempts. Seems safer that scmk or schp. Those get thrown all day for some reason.
How long is scmk off the ground?
Fuzzy guard with neutral jump hp? Wut? Never heard of that one.
Instant jb.mp still works vs some characters and is “safer” than jumping forward yeah. Works on Gouken, Rufus, Sagat, Seth… not sure who else… I’ve done it on a Ibuki once…
close st.mk has 6 start up. So I’m guessing Juri’s airborne for something like 3 frames (if you pay close attention you see a little hop just before the first hit). That looks like the same duration of a jab or short. So you’re not airborne for long, but it should be enough to avoid throw attempts.
Would it be possible that you hit close st.mk a little too soon? Since a regular throw has 3 start up frames, and if Juri is airborne for exactly 3 frames or less, that would mean you still end up getting thrown right? So I’m guessing you should delay your cst.mk a tiny bit just like you would when you crouch tech.
Exploration? Theres only three jumpins that provide the blockstun needed for it, J.RH, Nj,RH and Nj,Hp.
Nj.Hp is the least practical though i dont see why you would do it, if they guard high and walk back in the process chances are you will be out of range when you want to do it, keep in mind fuzzy guard reffers to keeping them in block stun long enough to do IA overhead on their abnormal standing(but crouching) hitbox. If you talk about it working on hit then your looking for a combo not a fuzzy guard.
Then again i still think fuzzy guard is a gimmick and rarely use it, it requires precise spacing and assumes your opponent is competant at blocking and wont reversal, AA you or backdash it, hell it fails on hit on some characters. You say you can remedy that with Nj.hp but then again thats to easily avoidable since you can crouch it or walk backwards from it, plus the fact that it stems from a neutral jump means its already pretty limited.
To your other question i know its airborn on the first frame, for how long i dont know, check the SRK wiki its got decent frame data. Its a 2 frame gap from a blocked st.lk and pretty good to do it off weak jumpins, if your getting thrown out of it your just not doing it right. Divekicks pay out more but pretty much lose you momentum on block though its an easy hit confirm into expinwheel so its worth learning.
There Are a few resets I’ve seen that force fuzzy guard without a jump in, so it’s quite possible to find different things with exploration. I personally don’t know what I’m looking for. However… I guess someone who knows the engine better might have more luck.
This is from the frame grabs that someone did just before release and may not be exactly accurate. (It only shows 1 active frame for the second hit whereas eventhubs and sfframedata say there are 2.)
(Sorry, SRK doesn’t want to in-line that.)
Larger: sc.mk
Anyways, it shows (if I’m interpreting correctly) that the first active frame is still airborne and then it’s grounded again. (For thoroughness, I’ll also mention that this doesn’t show all the recovery frames.)
If I’m looking at that right it shows 5 frames off the ground.
More importantly only the first 1-2 frames are on the ground before hoping for 5-6 frames.
That’s interesting…
So basically you should be able to delay cst.mk for 1-2 frames and still avoid normal throws. Still unclear if the 2nd and 7th frames are on ground. But to me that looks like 6 airborne frames starting from frame 2 which is pretty neat.
That shit is a must vs command throw characters.
No. They can throw you outside of scmk range
Hey guys, just wondering, what does Juri say when you ko her with a light move? Thanks
You guys should check the SRK wiki if you’re looking for frame data. It has pretty much everything you could want to know, except maybe some minor details.
Super Street Fighter IV/Juri - Shoryuken Wiki, Marvel vs. Capcom 3 Strategy and More!
I did some recordings at a session last night. I’ll put them up soon.
Basic questions.
After an overhead on hit with a fireball stored… What are my options? I feel like the overhead puts me in a bad situation. I eat dps when I jump, I eat throws when I try and strike… It’s upsetting. Lol. I’ve been doing scmk hoping it beats throws but… Even that feels like I’m getting throw.
Vs Rufus dives. What does juri do to get out of this? He gets in whenever he wants and stays there for as long as he wants. Vs low dives I can’t mp him. Plus… They cross up!
Vs Abel. This is a nightmare. Actually vs all command grab mix up characters…what do I look for in escaping? Abel option selects the hell out of me.
Vs Honda. Everyone says to zone but I will say this and I believe it. Juri can’t zone Honda. He walks too fast an he doesn’t have to jump. Once he’s in j mp range… It’s bad for juri. He an stuff our anti airs… Poke us out of fuhajin fireballs… And do a decent job at Counter poking. Honda takes no risk in jumping. If he’s anti aired… He’s in. He’s closer than when he started. So… What’s my goal here? Try and Zone him and time him out? What about when I don’t have the life lead? How do I try and get in? This match… Is hell.
I’m at the point where I need to up my tactical game. I don’t know what I should be looking for.
@ overhead, get rid of your fireball during the animation.
@Rufus, counter/expinwheel for divekicks, cr.lp or even lk if they do it close to the ground, also dont let him get in that position, try to avoid that roll kick he does too cz that puts him at about even frames right next to you aswell. Juri has it easier against him than most of the cast because of counter and expinwheel hitting above and behind you.
@Abel, dont get knocked down, you need to guess right, theres no easy way out, vs blocked step kicks just mash st.lk or st.mk, st.lk beats his normals and st.mk beats his grabs.
@Honda, rush him down, ive been saying this for ages that zoning doesnt work, punish HP headbutts with lk pinwheel (very important in not letting him get a life lead), dont let him get free chip. Zone him with normals but dont throw fireballs to often lest you get tagged by headbutt, find ways to lose his charge on knockdown, find setups to bait buttslams and punish (lab work). Learn how to AA him properly (Lab, learn what beats what jump in). Its still terrible matchup wise but zoning is not the answer, you dont win like that. FSE is a must too.
Iiiiinteresting mike.
About the overhead. What I meant was… I feel like having an overhead puts me at a disadvantage. What I mean is… After a hit if I fondue a strike they dp or throw. From certain ranges the quickest normal I got is 4 frames. If they go for a throw I feel like I’m always out of scmk range.
It feels weird… Like… I’m always at the raw end of the deal.
For rufus. I find standing jab good vs dive kick. Also, I get a reset opportunity which juri I feel is strong during. But as with Abel and fei long I feel their up close mix up is strong vs juri. Basically. I don’t know what to look for. Maybe I don’t know their common patterns or what… But I always seem to guess wrong. Rufus goes for a throw I’m blocking, I tech he frame traps…
Abel… There’s no answer to wheel kick except pinwheel, right? It has to be an early pinwheel and active before he’s airborne I believe. Even a late ex pinwheel I’ve traded. That move is so scary. The Abel I play option selects the hell out of me.
What do I look for? Does Abel have tells?
The advice for the blocked step kick is good. I’ll try it. I thought he was at frame advantage on step.
Honda. When I evaluated the matchup with a friend of mine I said “I cant zone you…so I gotta learn to rush you”. He’s like “you must”. So I did and bad really good results. A few nights he stopped jumping almost completely. Now… I’m lost. So I’m thinking of switching back to fse and rushing.
My gripe is nothing is safe vs Honda. No matter where I place my pinwheels or dive kicks… It’s still unsafe. Jab hands eats my life. This is the biggest problem I have other than baiting reversals with Honda.
So I take his back charge away…I don’t know how to do this and remain safe from buttslam. I know jump back mp but I’m giving up pressure.
In the case of Rufus and Abel, prevention is better than cure. Just dont let Rufus in and dont let Abel get the knockdown. Ive actually always thought vs Abel that you have shit tons of good offensive options but if he gets the knockdown, it is, no joke, the end of the match. You have about 3/4 guesses on his Oki game and if you cant guess right and create space again its hard to win.
Dont underestimate the power of wakeup grab though, Abel cant roll at you like that and he has slow normals, even if he techs it you get a chance to escape so yeah.
I dont want to write an essay on honda but yeah, it sounds like you just need to go to the lab on him. If you really want to win you will come up with some sound setups to make sure you dont fuck up as much.
Rufus: I like to st.hp him when he starts dive kick pressure. But I mostly zone in this match up. High and low fireballs all day. When he’s in range I just far st.mk AA him. Ive also just learned that to go for U2 in this match up. Also when starting the match I like to rush at them. Only because they have no meter and its way easier for juri. If you get him in the corner try to bait out ex messiah thays all I know and can think of.
Abel: pressure if you get that knockdown. Pressure with st.mk or st.hp on his wakeup and OS throw. When he gets the knockdown I’m not sure of a way to escape besides hope for the best.
I can’t talk about Honda cuz I never face any
Yeah true, U2 for Rufus because theres a few situations it comes in handy for.
It beats his U2 on startup so you wont have to worry about being chipped out.
It beats his Ex Messiah kick followups and punishs the mid.
Punishs the middle empty frames of ex-galatic tornado.